Cast Boolit Used As Self Defense

[Wrbjr]

Ran across a curious statement made by someone on another site a year or so ago. I printed it out as it piqued my curiosity. Why would someone make a statement like this?

The statement made was "NO cast bullet hard or soft is for, or ever to be used for HUMAN SD...NEVER! The over kill would be unthinkable!

???? Over kill? I thought dead is dead. What happened to shoot til the target is down? What did we use before the copper queens of today? Helloooo?

Just not something I understand at all. Maybe I'm missing something.

[Doc_Stihl]

LOL

That's silly.

[dverna]

BS

Don Verna

[rondog]

Yeah, I don't understand that either. I can remember when cops carried .38's with LRN's in them. Probably comes from that "never carry handloads" mindset.

Oh, and it's "shoot to stop the threat". Whether the threat is down, or running down the street leaking and shrieking, only shoot to stop aggression against you or another. Self defense isn't about shooting to kill an aggressor, it's about keeping an aggressor from harming YOU or another person, yes?

[JSnover]

I never thought of cast boolits as a sort of 'nuclear option' for self-defense, but there it is...

[Wrbjr]

Yeah, I don't understand that either. I can remember when cops carried .38's with LRN's in them. Probably comes from that "never carry handloads" mindset.

Oh, and it's "shoot to stop the threat". Whether the threat is down, or running down the street leaking and shrieking, only shoot to stop aggression against you or another. Self defense isn't about shooting to kill an aggressor, it's about keeping an aggressor from harming YOU or another person, yes?

Wow.. you make me feel old there... I used to carry .38 RN lead when I was a police officer. I know of several officers seriously injured in shootouts because of those widow makers... One AGGRESSOR had 4 rounds in him and was still pulling the trigger on Don and Ernie before they finally KILLED the aggressor. You NEVER shoot to wound anyone. If you shoot it had better be to kill... period. With those old RN issued lead bullets you just were lucky if you could stop the AGGRESSOR at all. It was several years after I was sworn in before we updated to .357 SJ HP's. The media called us KILLERS and that we were a menace to society with the bear killing ammo. Some things never change I guess.

[Whitespider]

I'll take the "over-kill" verses under-kill hands down.
But than again, some people think I'm some sort of creaton... so what'da I know??
*

[Bohica793]

Pegged my BS meter.....

[mpmarty]

That kind of stupidity is why I choose never to pack less than a 45. Cast, jacketed, doesn't matter to me a whit.

[tazman]

When the lives of my family and myself are at risk, I prefer to be tried by 12 than to bury one of my family. I also have no intention of being sued by the perp. His family or estate maybe, but not the perp.

[Wrbjr]

When the lives of my family and myself are at risk, I prefer to be tried by 12 than to bury one of my family. I also have no intention of being sued by the perp. His family or estate maybe, but not the perp.

AMEN to that.

[DougGuy]

I just buy factory ammo for carry, simply because it removes whatever opportunity some egotistical DA might use against me.

These idiots down here in NC will stand in front of a courtroom and say "Your Honor, he was driving down the road just LOOKING for someone to kill!" Trust me, been there seen it done, all trumped up over carrying with one in the pipe, cocked and locked. That, my friends, is the BS call if there ever was one.

[Rick Hodges]

It just goes to prove that there really is no end to stupidity.

[Gtek]

I believe only one story works the best.

[gray wolf]

I don't think I can take another one of these threads.

[waco]

But if you shoot someone with a cast boolit, they could end up with lead poisoning......

[Dframe]

Pegged my BS meter.....

Mine too. Total Bovine Feces!

[TXGunNut]

I carried 158 gr +P lead hollowpoints for years in my backup gun. I'm glad I don't live in this pundit's alternative reality.

[leeggen]

Oh my, was always taught "dead people tell no lies", also only "one side of the story trumps two sides to the story", seems resonable to me.
CD

[Doc_Stihl]

I can imagine back in the day sitting around the fire in the teepee...

Don't use oak arrow shafts....they'll blow right through a buffalo, way overkill.

[Wrbjr]

Well, at least I'm not alone here. Thanks for the responses. I thought maybe I was just not up to speed these days as I get yet even older.... I suppose the guy may have said it in jest..... or an attempt at dry humor but the article did not go that way at all. Takes all kinds I suppose.

[TXGunNut]

It's my understanding that Agent Mireles killed both suspects, Platt and Matix, in the 1986 Miami shootout with a short-barreled revolver loaded with the 158 gr LSWC HP +P "FBI" load. FBI concluded it needed more powerful weapons. Feel free to draw your own conclusions.

[Grump]

Wayelll, about 4-6 years ago I was channel surfing and caught a blip of some historical show on the US War of Southern Hubris, and the idiot perfesser wuz tellin' the starry-eyed youngsters with heads full of mush all about how deadly Minie' balls were compared to modern military ammo because the soft lead tended to mushroom.

I'm still not convinced that any such expanding lead-projectile effects would change the lethality of what you might call a hole-puncher already pre-expanded to .54 caliber.

Oh, the Minie' ball was also for those very same reasons more lethal than round balls too. Yeah. Right. NO discussion of surviving the initial wound vs. surviving the septic-spreading medical treatment afterwards, either.

So I changed the channel.

[tazman]

Ever notice how "experts" with an agenda never seem to tell the whole story or consider ALL the fact?
If they actually were to tell the whole story, they couldn't spin it the way they wanted.

[flyingmonkey35]

I'm just waiting for the FBI crime lab to freak out when someone uses a swagged booloit.

The look on there faces would be priceless.

[Catshooter]

No, the OP is correct.

I shot 47 guys last week with lead boolits and every dang one of 'em died, then jumped up and died three more times. Each!

I got tired just watching.


Cat

[375RUGER]

OH the secret is out now why the FBI chose soft LSWCHP for 'the load'.

[Bonz]

I have to say that I find these threads humorous… You have people saying/thinking that using old castboolit technology in your personal defense handgun is unlawful at a time when bullet designers/manufacturers are devoting many hours to design the most lethal bullets known to man. After all, it appears that the more lethal a bullet is, the more difficult it is to find & buy. Look around and see how many Hornady XTP or Speer GoldDot bullets you can find & buy. And then, you can always find the 'newest & the greatest' advertised. Watch the video and then imagine yourself in a court of law explaining why your personal defense handgun was loaded with this factory ammunition. ;-)

http://blog.al.com/wire/2014/01/re-inventing_the_bullet_ammuni.html

http://g2rip.com/video

http://www.ammunitiondepot.com/RIP-9MM-Ammo-p/g2rip9.htm

[DeanWinchester]

Wow, what a load of çrap.

I carry a G19 w/ Lone wolf barrel loaded with a Lyman 356402 loaded with HS-5. VERY accurate. Cast from air cooled WW's they penetrate well enough. If 16 rounds of that won't do the trick then I'll accept my fate like a man and move on the next big thing.

Cast boolits no good for self defense? What a load of ..... Somebody should tell all those guys from the Revolutionary War, Civil War and the wild west they were doing wrong.

[DeanWinchester]

Positive proof cast boolits work!!!
103493

[Bigslug]

"Overkill unthinkable", huh? I'm pretty sure that most folks, when faced with an irrational tweaker that's trying to kill them, would prefer to come out of recoil only to see an empty and smoking pair of shoes in front of them.

So what's worse in the eyes of a jury; a hand cast flat nose lump of plain lead alloy you loaded yourself that happens to also be your primary practice round because it's cheap, or one of the spinning razor blades (SXT, Golden Saber, Gold Dot, HST, etc...) that are in common use in American LE? A lawyer should be able to spin either one in either way. As long as you're not doing something totally nutball like putting percussion caps and black powder in your hollow point cavities or mixing cyanide into your bullet lube, I don't see it mattering a whole lot.

[aspangler]

Cyanide in the boolit lube...... UMMM. Now there is an idea worth of Moriarty. I don't think it would be a good idea to be caught with it. Might cause a little grief. My defense load os a cast 356 over a good dose of Red Dot. Gets the job done in my nine.

[dverna]

"Overkill unthinkable", huh? I'm pretty sure that most folks, when faced with an irrational tweaker that's trying to kill them, would prefer to come out of recoil only to see an empty and smoking pair of shoes in front of them.

So what's worse in the eyes of a jury; a hand cast flat nose lump of plain lead alloy you loaded yourself that happens to also be your primary practice round because it's cheap, or one of the spinning razor blades (SXT, Golden Saber, Gold Dot, HST, etc...) that are in common use in American LE? A lawyer should be able to spin either one in either way. As long as you're not doing something totally nutball like putting percussion caps and black powder in your hollow point cavities or mixing cyanide into your bullet lube, I don't see it mattering a whole lot.

Exactly

I currently carry Gold Dots or Hydra-Shoks because I think they are the best bullets for the intended purpose. I would not feel better equipped with lead bullets but I would not feel helpless with them either. Just shoot whatever you think is the best in your own little pea brain. There is obviously no "best" bullet and if there is, the test results will not persuade people who "know better".

I certainly would not want to take a hit with any kind of bullet in the chest.

Don Verna

[MBTcustom]

That's silly. Maybe they saw the link in my sig line and figured thats what they can expect from cast in all platforms?
Don't know.
I do think that the cast lead boolit is the most effective small arms projectile on the planet for hunting and SD, but it has nothing to do with the level of destruction it produces.
Cast lead is the off switch, weather you make a 12" hole, or a 1/2" hole. It just plain works.

Kind of like how a carbon steel blade just plain cuts better than SS. I used to make knives, and I could grind both SS and carbon blades to the same geometry, and harden them to the same basic hardness. Carbon, for all it's disadvantages, just bites when you are cutting with it. I can't explain why it's better, it just is, and anybody who uses them knows that. SS knives are a compromise for ease of maintenance, but they are a compromise, just like HP SD ammo is a compromise that makes sense for convenience and nothing else.

[rintinglen]

[QUOTE=Catshooter;2758257]No, the OP is correct.

I shot 47 guys last week with lead boolits and every dang one of 'em died, then jumped up and died three more times. Each!

I got tired just watching.

Cat

I am laughing hard right now--Thank goodness I wasn't drinking coffee or my computer would be wearing it.
I don't care what anyone says, that's funny!

[fiberoptik]

But if you shoot someone with a cast boolit, they could end up with lead poisoning......

Especially with mercury in the hollowpoint.....!:twisted:

[dudel]

After all the FBI, etc tests done on premium ammo, why would I want to use cast?

I don't have the resources to do the various penetration/over penetration tests against a variety of barriers. Would be fun; but I don't have the time or equipment to do this. As such, my SD loads are commercial.

I have no doubt that boolits can be deadly.

[jeepyj]

I guess I better get rid of the ones that I'm carrying right now. I had no idea.
Jeepyj

[Guardian]

Overkill is highly underrated!

[Wrbjr]

Overkill is highly underrated!

Ha ha... I like that one!