Did anyone ever a really accurate 9mm load with cast bullets?

[jayjay1]

I´m just wondering, because the 9mm Luger seems to be a hard round to get it precise with cast bullets.

Had anyone inhere success with this?
Which gun and which bullet was it?


Could need some starting help,
Jay

[tazman]

I am currently having excellent accuracy with an NOE 358-135 fn. I am casting it from range scrap and lubing it with either tac1 or LLA(seems to make no difference). Sized to .357.
COAL of 1.068. Taper crimp in a fourth station after seating.
I worked up a powder charge starting very low and increasing until I found a very accurate load, then kept increasing until the groups opened up. I chose the load in the center of the best grouping range.
I have since fired about 300 of these through my 9mm over the last 2 weeks with consistently great groups. Group size is 2 inches or less at 10 yards.
I have no idea of the velocity of the boolit as I do not currently have access to a chronograph. I also cannot tell what the hardness of the lead is.
Pistol is a Taurus pt92 with a stock Beretta 92 barrel. This combination shoots to my point of aim.

I had a friend who is a much better shot than I am, shoot that pistol and load over the weekend. He put 10 rounds into a group approximately 1 and 1/4 inches at 10 yards.

[DLCTEX]

The Lee 356-121 boolit is doing very well in my wife's M&P Shield and my son's M&P. I load it sized .357, lubed with Ben's Red, over 3.9 gr. Red Dot (because that is what #11 rotor in my Lil Dandy drops). It has been surprisingly accurate.

[toddrod]

I had the LEE TC bullet loaded with WSF shooting 3/4" groups at 25yds from my CZ 85 Combat in a Ransom Rest.

Same bullet with Titegroup out of my Springfield 1911 in a Ransom Rest at 20yds was 1.76" for a 5 shot group.

That is pretty good in my book.

[jayjay1]

I had the LEE TC bullet loaded with WSF shooting 3/4" groups at 25yds from my CZ 85 Combat in a Ransom Rest.



OMG!

That´s a dang good group sir!

The LEE TC bullet, is that the 120gr. or the 124gr. TL mold?

[jayjay1]

The Lee 356-121 boolit ...

Sir, do you mean the 120 bullet or is this an older mold which doesn´t exist anymore?

[toddrod]

OMG!

That´s a dang good group sir!

The LEE TC bullet, is that the 120gr. or the 124gr. TL mold?

the 120g standard lube grove

[Nobade]

My little 9mm bolt action rifle will hold an inch at 50M loaded with the Lee 125gr. 358" boolit and a compressed charge of 10B101. I never could get it to shoot well with 158gr, it was about a foot at that range with those.

-Nobade

[lotech]

Some 9mm pistols were likely not designed or built for accuracy and will never shoot really well with cast or jacketed bullets. Others can be reasonably accurate though experimentation with various moulds, alloy hardness, and bullet diameter might be necessary. Powder choice, as long as it's something suitable for the cartridge and bullet weight, may be the variable of least concern.

Many 9mm moulds cast undersize bullets, but a custom mould or one designed for the .38 Special that will cast at least a .358" bullet will probably work. Of course, nose configuration, length, and weight will have to be compatible with the pistol. Something with a long bearing surface, adequate lube capacity, and moderate to heavy weight (app. 120 - 150 grains) usually works best.

I have only worked with a few 9mm pistols and my suggestions probably won't apply to all such guns, but I've had best results using the largest diameter bullet (usually .358" or .359") that will safely chamber - no "tight" fit. While I'm sure there are some guns that won't accept a "fat" bullet, I haven't run across one yet. My current favorite 9mm mould is an out-of-production Lyman #358212, a .38 Special RN design weighing just under 150 grains when cast of wheelweight alloy. I have no loose bullets available to measure, but I believe these drop from the mould at about .359".

There is not much data available for heavy bullets in the 9mm. Proceed cautiously when working up loads.

[Ed_Shot]

I get excellent accuracy with several 9MM's with the Lyman 358242 (120 gr) sized .358 over Blue Dot 6.0 gr. By contrast, my Hi Point 995TS did not like any load with any powder I tried with the Lyman 358242 (120). After much trial and error found that the 995TS (w/4x) will hold 1" groups at 50 yds with the Lee 356-120-TC (standard lube) sized to .358 over Blue Dot 6.0 gr. IMHO 9MM is as accurate as you make it.

[aspangler]

My load is the Lee tl 124 gr rn over 3.8 gr of Red Dot. I shoot 1" to 1 1/2" groups at 25 yrds. Gun is a Hipoint c9. works well in my buddy's 92 fs also.

[HiVelocity]

What TAZMAN said! Using Power Pistol and NOE .358-135 mold, it will tear one ragged hole routinely (if you do your part).

HV

[ACrowe25]

I have excellent accuracy from the lee 120-tc using a near max charge of 231

[Le Loup Solitaire]

The 9mm is not widely regarded as a target cartridge mainly because there is a limited number of guns produced that will shoot the round accurately. One gun that will really deliver is the Sig 210 if you can afford it. Another gun is the S&W 952 which isn't cheap either. I've seen the German made Korth shoot remarkable groups, but the price is even scarier than the first two. If you shoot cast you have to do your part with well cast bullets and carefully tuned powder charges. A goodly number of powders will work well in the 9mm, will cycle the action and burn cleanly. Sizing to the best fit is important. Wadcutters are not the best choice for feeding; you want a round nose or a truncated nose design. I use Lyman 358242 and The RCBS 115 truncated cone bullets and either will hold the 8 ring or better at 25 yards two hand hold off the bench in of all things a WW2 Luger with an atrocious trigger pull. My favorite loading is 4.8 grains 4756 which fills the case pretty much and runs at a lower pressure than Bullseye or Red Dot etc. The load works even better accuracy-wise in my Baretta and 952, never a FTF in either gun. There is a wide spectrum of molds currently available from Saeco, Lee, Lyman and several independent mold makers that will give good results as well. Again the key to success with the 9mm is attention to preparation of components with an accent on uniformity. A good lube helps along with a mild taper crimp. And a fair amount of perseverance and patience as well. LLS

[jayjay1]

@Le loup solitaire:
Merci beaucoup Monsieur Loup, et bon curée!

Very good writing so, which I appreciate very much, very reproducible too!


But some things inthere intended me, it´s what you´ve said about the powders.

You write, that the powder charges should be carefully tuned.
What do you mean with that?
That only low velocity loads will bring good accuracy, or that the pressure build-up should be more consistent (= progressive powders), or something else?
Well, the SR4756 is a very progressive one so far.

Then you write, that a goodly number of powders will work well in the 9mm, with a clean burn and propper function.
You mean especially with cast bullets, I guess?
Would you be so kind, and tell us which powders you mean?

And you write also, that a lower pressure will is prefered.
That reminds me to something I´ve read elswhere, that the "pressure curve" is most important for a powder choice.
Can this two statements put together mean, that an as much as possible low-pressured and consistent pressurization leads to better accuracy with cast bullets?

And if so, how can I regulate this or even know it?

I really hope and am very excited for your response.
Meilleurs voeux à toi!

[tazman]

Check the burn rate charts. The slower powders for a particular cartridge give a slower build up of pressure. This seems to hit the bullet with less of a blow at the start. Less deformation and greater safety.
Tuning the powder charge refers to starting out with a light powder charge and working your way up in increments until you find a load weight that gives you good accuracy with proper function.
This will take some time, research, and experimentation.
Many factors effect the accuracy of a 9mm round. Overall cartridge length, the particular powder used, the amount of powder used, the type and weight of the bullet, the diameter of the bullet, and the characteristics of the barrel on your particular gun.
When you find the right combination, you can achieve your best accuracy.

[jayjay1]

Fine and clear so far.
The problem is, that I have to come to the Minor factor, so I´m not already free with velocity in relation to the bullet weight.

I use a RNFP 145gr. from MP molds right now, which has to make roundabout 900fps to ge good.

[tazman]

The heavier bullets for the 9mm require some of the slower pistol powders to achieve fastest velocity. That said 900fps seems to be easily achievable with a 147 grain bullet.
I checked several load data sources and all of them list loads achieving 900 fps safely. This shouldn't be too difficult.

[dubber123]

I have had good luck with BRP's 360640 Rf, a 150 gr. RF. I have gotten groups as small as 1.10" at 20 yds. resting off the roof of the car at 20 yds. from an inexpensive M88A. I size to .358" mostly, the Walther takes .359".

[fecmech]

Then you write, that a goodly number of powders will work well in the 9mm, with a clean burn and propper function.
You mean especially with cast bullets, I guess?
Would you be so kind, and tell us which powders you mean?

Not LLS here but my experience in the 9MM with cast at jacketed velocity with excellent accuracy. Hogdon Longshot was by far and way the best for me in the 1200 fps range (120 gr cast) followed closely by Blue Dot. Both worked very well with 120 and 147 gr. cast bullets at higher speeds. That was with 3 different 9mm's and 2 different barrels in a Browning HP.

[Shiloh]

When I can get them in the black of an NRA 50' B-2 or B-3 target I am thrilled. There are always the humbling flyers. My vision isn't what it used to be either.


SHiloh

[tazman]

There are always the humbling flyers. My vision isn't what it used to be either.
SHiloh
I hear that for sure. My new glasses have helped though.

[Le Loup Solitaire]

Jaylay1, A number of other forum members have helped out with the discussion and their advice is good. A lot of 9mm shooters like to go faster than 1000fps and I don't believe that is necessary to get good grouping. It also works the gun harder and generates more recoil which is not a friend of target shooting. I worked with 4756 because it filled the case @4.8 grains, generated lower pressure and did well. It also discourages any appreciable setback of the bullet which would, (even a small amount), in the 9mm case, cause a large change in pressure,that would effect accuracy. Other powders that will work well in the 9mm are; 700X, Bullseye, and Red Dot. I have used these with success. There are others...you can check with a good loading manual to find them and choose what else you might prefer to work with. Cast bullets...especially in 9mm will do better if they have a good bearing surface to grip the rifling and are less inclined to "tip" in the bore. Uniformity of components is important; for target grade work I have weighed the bullets and kept the weight as close as possible for the bullets I choose to go to shoot target with. Some shooters disagree with that concept...its a choice therefore that you have to make, especially if the pistol you are using may not be a target grade gun or one that has not been accurized. As I said in my previous post, most 9mm pistols currently produced (stock) are not usually made for target work, especially military/combat models....some will shoot better than others of course, but tight grouping is an exception-rare and not a rule. I have never been able to determine if round nose cast bullets shoot more accurately than conical or truncated nose bullets, but the CN and TN's do cut cleaner holes than the RN's for scoring purposes. I hope that this additional info has also been of some use to you. Je vous remercie pour vos gentiles commentaires and vos meilleures voeux. Bien a vous aussi. LLS

[Scharfschuetze]

I just fired this with my Highpower at 25 yards today.

Load details: Sorted cases (same headstamp), CCI 500 primers, Winchester 231 powder and the 125 grain RCBS truncated cone boolit.

Ballistic details: 1,020 fps and an SD of 6.3 for 10 shots and a 2" 10 shot group on target.

Not a group from a Sig 510, but I'll take it. The zero for this HP is for JHPs and the load shown shoots a bit to the left. Point of aim was center of the bull.

[Shiloh]

Very nice. Both the group and the pistol.

Shiloh

[fecmech]

Hipowers will shoot! Mine was the most accurate box stock pistol of the 3 that I owned. Nice shooting!

[jayjay1]

I hope that this additional info has also been of some use to you. Je vous remercie pour vos gentiles commentaires and vos meilleures voeux. Bien a vous aussi. LLS

Oh yes, it is really.

Tu as tres polie et gentil aussie!
Au royaume des aveugles, les borgnes sont rois.

As tu francais, mon ami?


I will try my very best.

[jayjay1]

I just fired this with my Highpower at 25 yards today.

Load details: Sorted cases (same headstamp), CCI 500 primers, Winchester 231 powder and the 125 grain RCBS truncated cone boolit.

Ballistic details: 1,020 fps and an SD of 6.3 for 10 shots and a 2" 10 shot group on target.

Not a group from a Sig 510, but I'll take it. The zero for this HP is for JHPs and the load shown shoots a bit to the left. Point of aim was center of the bull.


Thanks for you datas and the pic.
Very good group, where I am far away with my cast boolits.

I try some tomorrow.

By the way, the "r" at the end is too much.
"Scharfschütze" would be correct.
:drinks:

[Larry Gibson]

Over the years in the military and LE work I've shot numerous different cast bullets in many different 9mms. As mentioned in an earlier post most military and commercial 9mm's are not made for target accuracy. A few models are capable such as Scharfschuetzer's commercial High Power, many CZs and some commercial models set up for competition. Over all I've found the Lyman 356402, the 356634, the RCBS 9mm-124-CN (the bullet Sharfschuetzer used) and the Lee 356-120-TC to give the most consistently best accuracy across the board. I prefer Bullseye at 4 gr under any of these bullets. I would not turn down using a similar load of 231 or WST as those powders provide the same level of consistent accuracy. I most often cast the Lee bullet these days because I have a 6 cavity mould. I cast of of ternary alloy with a BHN of 12 - 15 most often and let the bullets AC and age harden for 7 -10 days. I size at .357 or .358 (mostly .358 for my CZ75) and lube with BAC.

I have to say that short of special built competition models the CZ75 and commercial Browning High Powers always were the most accurate.

Larry Gibson

[Scharfschuetze]

Larry,

I'll bring a 9mm M9 with me for the "Desert Classic Rock Shoot 2014" in a few weeks.

Jayjay1,

Do you recognize this club near Stuttgart? I've shot some 9mm there. Oh and yes, "Du hast Recht!"

[jayjay1]

Sure I do know Sindelfingen, that´s nearby Stuttgart.

I live in the same country Baden-Württemberg, but a little bit to the south, near to France and Switzerland.
Have you ever heard about Freiburg / Black Forest?

That´s where I do come from.

Have you been in the Army over here?

[GREENCOUNTYPETE]

I like the Lee 356-120tc the standard lube groove mine drops right about .358 to .359 i just tumble lube in liquid alox 2 coats and load my load is 4.5 gr power pistol and it works nicely my brass is all range pick up mostly , I am not trying for great distance but 10 yards i do alright

no one thought a sub compact 9mm was a squirrel gun either but it works fine when they are making targets of them selves

[Scharfschuetze]

Jayjay1,

Yes I know Freiburg and the Schwarzwald. I have a cousin currently in a doctorate program at the university there.

I hope to make it back to Germany in a year or so and I always visit the Stuttgart area as I have a few friends still with the US Army there as well as a cousin who is a designer for Mercedes Benz. If I do, I hope that we can get together. It would be a good reason to get down to Freiburg and have a cup of coffee with you.

[Larry Gibson]

Scharfschuetzer

Got quite a bit of 9mm loaded (oops.....shouldn't be telling you that[smilie=l:) but will cast up a bunch more bullets. Still got lots of brass and the Dillon is easy to set up. If you find some SP primers for a "reasonable" price along the way give me a call as I need some. Been a dry spring this year so many new rocks have formed up. They still haven't gotten PAVN or East German advisors so their tactics suck.....should be some good shooting:guntootsmiley:

I've a bottle of "Gibson's Finest" but am short on "Tangle Ridge".....hint.....hint.....:drinks:

Larry Gibson

[Scharfschuetze]

I'm in a 9mm loading frenzy right now with the Dillon press, so I'm probably going to have to trade in my 1/2 ton truck for a 3/4 ton truck to haul all the 9mm, 38, Ought-Six and 45/70 ammo down.

I'll check the Class VI store at the base for the Tangle Ridge, but as long as you've got that Gibson's finest on tap, I'll bring some primers!

[Larry Gibson]

Sounds like a grand schutzenfest (spelling is probably wrong but I don't sprekenzi.....love the food though:D) in the making:guntootsmiley:

Larry Gibson

[whomeno]

I use 125gr pc lead over a load of 4.0 red dot powder which is very good. I have also came up with a load with titewad. 125 gr pc over 3.2 gr of titewad is a good load for me. Both loads out of my 9mm c9 hi point puts them in a 5 inch circle at 25 yards.

[jayjay1]

Heureka!

Well, dear gentlemen, I think I made it!
[smilie=w:

Tried two new loads today with boolits sized with my new and bigger sizer die.
Bullets come out with .3575" now, Acc. 2 and some Green Dot did the rest.

I´ve shot groups with roundabout 2,5-3" at 25meters.

That´s pretty good for my CZ Shadow.

I´m a happy man today.
:drinks:

[tazman]

Heureka!

Well, dear gentlemen, I think I made it!
[smilie=w:


Tried two new loads today with boolits sized with my new and bigger sizer die.
Bullets come out with .3575" now, Acc. 2 and some Green Dot did the rest.

I´ve shot groups with roundabout 2,5-3" at 25meters.

That´s pretty good for my CZ Shadow.

I´m a happy man today.
:drinks:

Good work. I love hearing success stories.

[Scharfschuetze]

Good news Jayjay1. I've also enjoyed some success with Green Dot in the 9mm.

[jayjay1]

To be honest, an older reloader over here, suggested it to me for the .40 S&W.

I knew he is an old fox, so I´ve ordered it, wellknowing that it is a shot gun powder.

The result surprised me a lot.
It burnt very clean, did less recoil as others with the same velocity and gave me some pretty nice groupings.

Now I´ve tried it in the 9mm, with pretty the same result, what drives me to use it in the .45 ACP next (Mr. Broemel gives it a Go!).
If that will work too, it is an awesome pistol powder I guess.


Cheers from the Black Forest gentlemen!
Jay :drinks:

[greenwart]

I just wanted to agree with DLCTEX that the lee 358-120-TC sized to 357 over 3.9g of red dot is the best load I have developed for the 9mm. Sized 3-5 thousandths from the lands and my Hi power shoots light out.

Bob

[saleen322]

I have worked up a number of target cast loads for 9mms and it can be a challenging caliber. For example, here are two groups I shot @ 25 yards with the same bullet and powder charge. The only difference between the two groups is seating depth. IMHO, it is best to work with powder weight only until the groups go round-the vertical and horizontal spread is about the same. Then go to seating depth. One caution on this though, I recommend starting with the shorter length and work longer as 9mms can increase pressure very quickly as the overall length is shortened. This load will do under 2" @ 50 yards from a machine rest. As far as powder choice, you will look long and hard to find something more accurate than Power Pistol. Good luck to you.

http://i601.photobucket.com/albums/tt98/saleen322/Center%20Fire%20Pistol/952%20SW/9mm115Tgt1-A_zps3b596f96.jpg http://i601.photobucket.com/albums/tt98/saleen322/Center%20Fire%20Pistol/952%20SW/9mm115Tgt2-A_zpsc7160316.jpg

[Low Budget Shooter]

Last year I worked quite a bit on 9mm loads. The unexpected winner, which shot the best in all 3 of the pistols I was using, was the 95-grain 358242 by NOE over 3.9 grains Bullseye. Bullet was sized .3575 and lubed with Carnauba Red. Equivalent charge of Unique and W231 worked almost as well. There was no leading, even though I was using just range scrap. LBS

[tejano]

@Saleen322--what size bullet are you using? I want to try your target load.

[saleen322]

@Saleen322--what size bullet are you using? I want to try your target load.

That is a 115 SWC sized to 0.356". This is a "store bought" cast bullet from Penn. I have not been able to find a similar mold to date but it is certainly one I would consider buying if I do find one.

[tejano]

Thanks. I am familiar with Penn bullets,

[Gastero]

Like a few here I load the Lee 356-120-TC with 4.6 gr of Unique for my Astra, P.38 and High power with god results.

[Forrest r]

Accurate 9mm loads is going to be 1 of my winter projects this winter. Already did some testing with a 110gr hbwc & had excellent results. There's 3 other bullets I wanted to test, h&g #41/raphine 150grfnhb/lyman 35870rnhb. The 110gr hbwc crossed the T's & dotted the I's @ 25yds in the 9mm. A picture of the 110gr hbwc.

http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t242/forrestr-photo/115hbwc_zps7ebda02f.jpg (http://s162.photobucket.com/user/forrestr-photo/media/115hbwc_zps7ebda02f.jpg.html)

The h&g #41 110gr wc:
I'm hoping these boolits cut the same bugholes in targets as the 110gr hbwc.

http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t242/forrestr-photo/hampg41close_zps6e24e811.jpg (http://s162.photobucket.com/user/forrestr-photo/media/hampg41close_zps6e24e811.jpg.html)[


What I really wanted to test was the fnhb boolits (field nosed hollow based). They're an old bullet design (older than the tc for the 9mm) that was originally used for the 38s&w. These heavy boolits should do extremely well in the 9mm for target loads. I planned on using these 150gr fnhb boolits cast from a raphine mold as a baseline to learn everything that I can about the loading & pressure threshold of this hb boolit design.

[IMG]http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t242/forrestr-photo/38splhbfn_zpsd4d597cb.jpg (http://s162.photobucket.com/user/forrestr-photo/media/38splhbfn_zpsd4d597cb.jpg.html)

After testing with the raphine 150gr rnhb boolit I'm going to switch over to the lyman 35870 rnhb (round nosed hollow based). The lyman boolit is actually 1/8" shorter than the raphine. Plus I have the ability to design any hb design/shape/depth I want by making my own pins for it. Planned on making the target weight in the 140gr range by starting with a large hb pin and testing/re-shaping the pin smaller to find the best design for accuracy. The lyman 35870 rnhb test mold.

http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t242/forrestr-photo/35870_zps190cc78b.jpg (http://s162.photobucket.com/user/forrestr-photo/media/35870_zps190cc78b.jpg.html)

Planned on starting with a hb pin shaped similar to this one I tested/use for the lyman 429422 hb mold.

http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t242/forrestr-photo/pin_zpsad37922d.jpg (http://s162.photobucket.com/user/forrestr-photo/media/pin_zpsad37922d.jpg.html)

That design did extremely well strengthening the boolit where the lube grooves were allowing for higher velocities. That pin in a lyman 429422 mold.

http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t242/forrestr-photo/pininmold_zps9ecf3938.jpg (http://s162.photobucket.com/user/forrestr-photo/media/pininmold_zps9ecf3938.jpg.html)

It never hurts to see if something old can be reused for something new. The hbwc's have been the cat's meow for the revolver world for decades. I don't see why a rnhb boolit wouldn't have the ability to do the same thing for the 9mm.

[tazman]

I have a very good load I use in my Taurus PT92 which consists of an NOE 358-135-FP over 4.3 grains of WSH and a standard small pistol primer. I have been using this load for about a year now with excellent results.
I recently got 10k small pistol magnum primers for very cheap. I have been using them in my 38 special loads which I shoot in a 357 where small pressure differences don't really matter.
I decided to try them in my 9mm to see if I would get any pressure signs with my standard 9mm. Since my 9mm load isn't listed anywhere, I have no certain idea what the pressures are running. I loaded up 30 rounds so I could do a check, figuring if the accuracy went bad I wouldn't use them further. What I got was a significant improvement in accuracy with no increased pressure signs at all. Here is the target.
123162
The solid black is 2.25 inches across. The outside circle ring is 3 inches. This group is about 20% smaller than I normally get with this powder charge. I am going to load up more of them and see for sure I can duplicate this.
Your mileage may vary on the load data. It worked well in my pistol but I don't know about yours.

[Low Budget Shooter]

Tazman, that's interesting. More consistent ignition of powder?

[tazman]

Tazman, that's interesting. More consistent ignition of powder?

I don't know for sure.
I am going to load more of this combination and see if it duplicates. It seems to have made a good load even better. I just need to find out if it was a one off or it is consistent.
In a different caliber, I was running a near max load and substituting the mag primer for the standard version caused an excess of pressure. Severely flattened primers and increased recoil/flash. I dropped the powder charge .5grain and it corrected the problem.
I thought that might happen here, but there are no signs of it at all. I must not have been running as close to max as I thought in the 9mm. I need to chrono this with the mag primer and see how it matches with the standard load.

[tejano]

@Tazman, sorry for the dumb question but what is WSH powder?

[tazman]

Winchester Super Handicap.
Not a dumb question, simply uniformed. It takes a great deal of time to get exposed to all the abbreviations. I still don't know half of them.

[rintinglen]

@Tazman, sorry for the dumb question but what is WSH powder?
Don't feel bad, Tejano, I've been loading for over 40 years, and I didn't know either.:-P

[sandman228]

well I finally got to shoot some of my bullets from my new mold(lee 120 tc 6 cav ) I casted up 2400 of them I dunno if its the new venting design or what but this seems to be the most productive mold I own or ever have owned it just goes and goes . anyhow I loaded 100 of them up a week or so ago made it to the range sunday morning 50 loaded over 3.9 red dot and 50 loaded over 6.0 blue dot 1.080 oal. both were decent loads but the edge went to the red dot load . I was shooting them from a ruger sr9c and a ruger p95 not bad from either but again the edge went to the sr9c im sure the p95 would do better at a closer distance im shooting 25 yrds bench rested. yesterday was the 1st day of deer season in this area and I was off work but rather than waisting a day in the woods to not even see anything I decided to stay home and cast all day I made another 1000 of these bullets and almost 1000 .358 158 lrn bullets it was a pretty productive day .

[Low Budget Shooter]

sandman, that's interesting. I find that as time goes by I am more drawn to casting/sizing/lubing than to shooting and hunting. Maybe by the time I'm 80 I'll just stand at my little benches casting all day.

[Char-Gar]

The accuracy limitation is the gun. That said, I don't find it difficult to find cast bullet loads that will shoot as well if not better than good 9mm ball ammo. I use an NEI 120 grain truncated cone bullet going about 1,100 fps pushed by AA5, Unique or Bulleye.

If there is any special key to accuracy it would be use cases of the same make and segregate by length. This is quite a bit of variance in the length of some makes of 9mm cases and so it is a good idea to measure and segregate. Of course a good taper crimp is part of a good accurate and reliable 9mm reload.

[tazman]

This evening I tried out the load I posted in #50 to confirm if it was going to be consistent for me. I figured if it worked again like it did last week I was on to something good here.
Well it worked just as well tonight as it did last week. Since I wasn't shooting particularly well tonight it surprised me. The groups I shot tonight were identical to the one from last week.
Looks like I found my new best load for the 9mm pistol I have.

[Forrest r]

Don't know if these bullets will do any good in the 9mm but their worth a try. Finely got some cast/pc'd & sized to .356.

http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t242/forrestr-photo/35870hbs_zps5a05e10c.jpg (http://s162.photobucket.com/user/forrestr-photo/media/35870hbs_zps5a05e10c.jpg.html)

They're a 147gr hb rnfp lyman 35870 bullet that was designed for the 38s&w.
Was planning on using a starting load of 2.5gr of bullseye.

[Rattlesnake Charlie]

I've loaded many thousand of the Lee 120 gr TC with standard lube groove. My original load uses Red Dot. When I got my Dillon 550, it did not throw real consistently with this powder at such a small weight. I have since used Green Dot and HS-6. These all shoot as good - or usually better - than any factory jacketed bullet. I've started some experimenting with the Lee 125 gr RFN, and it seems to be easy to load too. I size all to .3575. Lube has always been BAC Carnuba Red. Never any loading, even when fired from a carbine. As several have stated previously in this thread, size .357+ with just about any alloy, use good lube, and you'll likely get acceptable results.

[Love Life]

I've never had a problem meeting the accuracy potential of a 9mm pistol with W231/HP-38 powder and a 124-147 gr boolit/bullet.

Now get you a Sam's custom and then you can split hairs about 9mm accuracy.

[Petrol & Powder]

I can get the Lee 120 TC to shoot well and my go-to 9mm powder is WSF but that powder is currently in short supply.
My major complainant concerning cast bullets in 9mm is the need to load for just 1 pistol. The guns are all over the place in terms of chambers, bore diameter, etc. I have been unable to find a load that will shoot well in several different guns.
When I shoot alone, I can take loads with cast bullets and use a Berretta 92 that I specifically load for. When I'm shooting with other people or using other guns, I just use jacketed bullets to avoid the problems.
The 9mm can be very accurate but in my experience it is not a forgiving round when loading for accuracy. 1 load in 1 gun can be made to shoot very well. 1 load in two or more guns is a totally different story. My 38 Specials aren't nearly as picky.

[Doc.Holliday]

Hello All: May I ask " What a really accurate load 9mm cast bullets with a Kel Tec Sub 2000 carbine?.
Just purchased one of these and it seems that the vast majority of owners and the Kel Tec forum are advising jacketed or plated bullets.
Does anyone have experience with running cast bullets in this gun with loads that work?
Thanking you kindly
Doc.

[tazman]

Hello All: May I ask " What a really accurate load 9mm cast bullets with a Kel Tec Sub 2000 carbine?.
Just purchased one of these and it seems that the vast majority of owners and the Kel Tec forum are advising jacketed or plated bullets.
Does anyone have experience with running cast bullets in this gun with loads that work?
Thanking you kindly
Doc.

I don't have the SUB 2000 but I do have the Citadel M1 carbine in 9mm if this will help. Mine didn't care for light weight cast boolits at all. I got a pattern rather than a group. When I tried bigger boolits it got better. When I shot 145 grain boolits it became a tack driver.
Mine likes the Lyman 358212 with a medium to heavy powder charge under it. I get nickel size groups at 30 yards with this load.

[pacomdiver]

doc,
I recently got a sub in 9mm, the one that uses s&w 59 mags . im going to try cast in it.im still in the finding which mags it likes and not phase. ive only got the lee tl 124 right now but was gonna get the 125 2r . im also gonna run some pc thru it to see if it like them

[Doc.Holliday]

Thank-you Gentlemen; Mine is the Glock model and I picked up another Glock mag after reading numerous posts about problems with Korean mags and the "Glock" model Sub 2000. Too bad Mec Gar doesn't make after market Glock Mags.
Pleas post your results with the cast. Like Tazman posted it seems .358 sized and from my research it seems the 9mm is more accurate with a bullet at least 124 grains in pistol as well.
Doc

[pacomdiver]

wish mine was the glock model, I have a couple 33rd mags sitting in my cabinet collecting dust

I gave up on the 124 tumble lube bullet (was getting keyholes) and am getting the 125g 2r to give more support to the nose

[tazman]

Thank-you Gentlemen; Mine is the Glock model and I picked up another Glock mag after reading numerous posts about problems with Korean mags and the "Glock" model Sub 2000. Too bad Mec Gar doesn't make after market Glock Mags.
Pleas post your results with the cast. Like Tazman posted it seems .358 sized and from my research it seems the 9mm is more accurate with a bullet at least 124 grains in pistol as well.
Doc

Since my 9mm pistol is a bit of an oddball I am not certain it qualifies as a usual pistol. It is a Taurus pt92 with a Beretta m9 barrel. That said, it like heavy boolits better than lighter weights. 135-150 grain boolits work the best for me and they need to be sized .358. At .357 I start getting light leading. At .356 I get terrible leading and the accuracy stinks.
I do have one light weight boolit that shoots accurately though. The Lee 356-95-rf is very accurate for me but only with one particular powder. If I use anything except Titewad under that boolit the accuracy is not so good.



I gave up on the 124 tumble lube bullet (was getting keyholes) and am getting the 125g 2r to give more support to the nose

You will like that 125-2r. I had good results with it. It dropped large enough to use in my 38 special as well if I wish.

[pacomdiver]

I like the 125 has a lot of bore rider body, so it should stabilize better

I tried the 124 tl pc'd at 357 358 and 360 and just lubed at 356, 357 and 360 and it shot like **** in all my 9mms with 4g, 4.5g and 5g unique. what sucks is I have a lot of them left, maybe try some with red dot before I remelt them

[tazman]

Lots of people on this site have issues with that tl boolit. I wouldn't even waste my time experimenting with them since you are getting the standard tc. The standard is a good boolit.

[Doc.Holliday]

I have a magma engineering mold - Me 09 125 RN BB that I will give a try . It "should" work .

[pacomdiver]

taz, you meant Tumble lube bullet right (lee # 90465)? the 125 im looking at (lee #90457) is a 2r round nose not a truncated cone

[tazman]

taz, you meant Tumble lube bullet right (lee # 90465)? the 125 im looking at (lee #90457) is a 2r round nose not a truncated cone

You are right. My bad. I corrected it.

[JimP.]

Walther P1 (P38), Lee .358 105 gr SWC, shot as cast. Tumble lube, 5.0 grs Red Dot. Sub 1.0 inch groups 25 yds.

[odfairfaxsub]

No lie. Sig p229 legacy slide

top data unique powder, 120 gr lee tumble lube, .358 sized, jpa/lla I was shooting darn good groups 13 rounds palm of my hand at 15 yards. Awesome shooter and no leading when sized .358

[tazman]

.358 seems to be the magic number for a lot of weapons.

[beroen]

I was reading on Penn bullets that some have had a good increase in accuracy by tuning the OAL of the rounds to the specific 9mm. does any one have any insight to this?

[trapper9260]

I have good luck with Lyman 147gr SWC size to .356 in a S&W Sigma .

[tazman]

The load I talked about back in post #50 is still shooting the center out of my targets. After 4 weeks of great targets and over 150 rounds of this ammo sent downrange, I guess I have proved the load for my pistol.
To those who are interested the specs are as follows. It may or may not work for you. Each pistol makes it's own rules.
Taurus pt99 with Beretta 92 barrel(the barrel is a drop in replacement for the Taurus barrel) Barrel slugs at .3575 groove diameter.
Remington 5 1/2 small pistol primer(magnum)
Mixed brass
Winchester Super Handicap powder 4.3 grains
Noe 358-135-fn cast from range scrap and water dropped. Sized to .358 with a Lee push through sizer. Lubed with White Label X-Lox.
OAL is 1.105
This load consistently shoots 90% into a 2 inch circle at 10 yards for me offhand. I am not very good with the pistol off a rest so have not tested it that way.
Enjoy

[Forrest r]

Too many irons in the fire right now to sort/figure out the fliers that keep showing up. Typical 50yd targets with 147gr hb 35870 lyman bullets.

http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t242/forrestr-photo/358709mm_zps9110adbe.jpg (http://s162.photobucket.com/user/forrestr-photo/media/358709mm_zps9110adbe.jpg.html)

Tried 2 1/2gr of bullseye for a starting load & they were too hot. But they easily took down 6" square 1 inch thick plates @ 25yds.

I believe the fliers are a brass problem, right now I'm using nothing more than mixed range pick-ups & old wolf primers.