30-06, 240 gr. Cast bulllet

[Ben]

Today I cast some plain base 240 gr. Accurate .30 cal. cast bullets.

I'll be shooting these out of my Ruger , 30-06 Springfield. These have been sized .311" , lubed with Ben's Red and rolled in thinned LLA.

I have not loaded any yet.

Any opinions, pet loads, or advice you'd like to offer before I do ?

I shot the photos with my cell phone ( poor pic quality ) using incandescent light ( always gives a reddish tint to my photos ) . They look copper coated, but they are not.

Ben

http://i1155.photobucket.com/albums/p545/Ben35049/IMG_20140428_124542_zps63031c5b.jpg (http://s1155.photobucket.com/user/Ben35049/media/IMG_20140428_124542_zps63031c5b.jpg.html)

[357maximum]

Ben

At the speed you are gonna shoot the plainbase boolits, you can pretty much skip the lubesizer and just use the thinned LLA. I use (prefer) thinned LLA and a light dusting of MotorMica (after the boolit "dry") and have found that to work best at + or - the speed of sound. I used IMR PB or Alliant Herco at about 10-11 grains when I tried my REM 700 30-06 at them speeds, but my boolit was a bit lighter PB version of a 311290 @ 222 grains....it shot great, but I am more of a barn burner/gas check consumer and got bored with it....personal preference thing is all.

[dk17hmr]

I use 9.5-10gr of trailboss with 247gr NOE in one of my 30-06s for plinking and rabbit shooting...... low recoil low muzzle blast..... alot of fun to shoot.

[Ben]

Good suggestions.

Thanks,
Ben

[RickinTN]

Ben,
You, the plain-based 30 cal GURU asking for opinions and advice. I'll bet you already have something up your sleeve, and I will bet it will work too! I'm looking forward to pics of the targets.
Rick

[Ben]

Rick,

I like a man with faith.

Thanks,
Ben

[frnkeore]

I would suggest 18 - 18.5 gr 4759 with Rem 2 1/2's, Wolf Large Pistol or Federal F150 primers.

Why do the bullets look so red? There not copper plated are they?

Frank

[357maximum]

I would suggest 18 - 18.5 gr 4759 with Rem 2 1/2's, Wolf Large Pistol or Federal F150 primers.

Why do the bullets look so red? There not copper plated are they?

Frank


Ben proably coated his camera with Ben's Red to make it take more accurate pictures. :mrgreen:

[Ben]

Why do the bullets look so red? There not copper plated are they?

Frank

---------------------------------

Shot the photos with my cell phone ( poor pic quality ) using incandescent light ( always gives a reddish tint to my photos ) .

Ben

[USSR]

I will be doing load testing with the plain base 247gr NOE bullet in .30-06 once it gets warm here in the frozen tundra. Will be looking for 1400-1500fps. I will be using IMR4227 and will probably start with 20gr.

Don

[Ben]

I will be doing load testing with the plain base 247gr NOE bullet in .30-06 once it gets warm here in the frozen tundra. Will be looking for 1400-1500fps. I will be using IMR4227 and will probably start with 20gr.

Don


Don,

Keep us posted with your results.

Ben

[TXGunNut]

I think they're purdy!
I honestly don't know why so many of my rifle boolits have GC's. Most don't go fast enough to need them. As soon as I run out of GC's I'm going to see if that drill press on my workbench is plugged in. ;-)

[35 shooter]

That's a fine looking boolit. I just received a NOE 360280 2 cavity mould today. It throws one gc. and one pb. in the same mould. Can't wait to work with the plain base in my whelen. Good luck with yours. Again, that's a good looking boolit.

[Ben]

240 grs. in .30 cal. WOW ! !
Can you say penetration ?

Ben

[35 shooter]

Looks like it oughta go end to end thru a freight train!

[RPRNY]

I will be doing load testing with the plain base 247gr NOE bullet in .30-06 once it gets warm here in the frozen tundra. Will be looking for 1400-1500fps. I will be using IMR4227 and will probably start with 20gr. DON

FWIW, I like the plan but I think you will find 20 grs IMR 4227 too light. I am absolutely sold on 4227 for 30 cal cast and it is proven with 160 gr FN in 30-30 and 180 gr Lyman 311041 in 30-40. In the latter I am getting 1595 fps with 24 grs. So, add 70 grs or, more importantly,0.xx" of boolit at 4grs less powder in a much bigger case and I wonder what stability you will get at 100 yards and beyond? Of course, that's finger-in-the-wind, rule of thumb sort of speculating, whereas you might have already run it through Quickload or have some prior experience I suppose....

So, never mind I guess. :D

[Nobade]

I shoot the NOE version of those in my 1:10 twist 30-06 over 11.0gr. of Trailboss. It is subsonic, less noise than a 22LR and hits the hanging steel very hard. Quite amusing and very accurate.

-Nobade

[Moonie]

I shoot a 245 GC accurate molds boolit to 1,950fps with 35gr of H4895, don't know how well that would work with a plain base without PC or something to protect the base.

[TXGunNut]

240 grs. in .30 cal. WOW ! !
Can you say penetration ?

Ben

Methinks Ben is going to see how many pine trees he can put a boolit through. 3? 4?

[Ben]

A few of you said you'd like to see the 240 gr. Accurate .30 cal. plain base test targets. I shot 20 rounds out of my TIKKA 30-06 today, ( 4 groups with 5 rounds in each group ) Range was 50 yards. ( on the 8.0 gr. load , I had to expend 2 rounds to get the rifle hitting near the bull , therefore , the 8.0 grs. of Unique load only had 3 rounds in the target.)

The bullets were sized .3115 " lubed with Ben's Red and rolled in thinned 45-45-10 and allowed to dry for 2 days.

I did a " ladder test ", shooting 8.0 Alliant Unique with the 240 gr. bullet, 8.5 grs. of the same, 9.0 of the same, and finally 9.5 grs.

As far as I'm concerned it looks like 8.0 of Alliant Unique is the clear winner in the accuracy dept.

I can see some " tipping " on the 8.5 gr. test target, possible a bit of it on the others also. The 9.5 gr. target seems to show less / if any tipping.

http://i1155.photobucket.com/albums/p545/Ben35049/009_zps4364a017.jpg (http://s1155.photobucket.com/user/Ben35049/media/009_zps4364a017.jpg.html)

http://i1155.photobucket.com/albums/p545/Ben35049/010_zps9e9641c6.jpg (http://s1155.photobucket.com/user/Ben35049/media/010_zps9e9641c6.jpg.html)

[bigted]

Ben ... is this boolit Tom's number 31-240H ? this looks like a winner to me and even at low speeds I bet it will do a number on anything it hits.

nice shooting and I am anxious to see what happens at 100 yds. that 8 grain load looks wonderful and id bet that it holds up at 100.

I also like the look of his 255 grain 31-255G boolit but wonder if the 10 twist barrel would stabilize it. course its not that much longer/heavier then yours so maybe.

thinkin I NEED to add an 06 barrel to my Encore collection ... singleshot should do fine with the longer boolits.

[1845greyhounds]

[QUOTE=Ben;2767266]
I can see some " tipping " on the 8.5 gr. test target, possible a bit of it on the others also. The 9.5 gr. target seems to show less / if any tipping.
[QUOTE=Ben;2767266]

Why do you think they are tipping? Insufficient velocity and/or twist rate? If so, 8.0 grains would be worse. A larger sample size and/or accuracy testing at longer range will show you.

[Ben]

1845greyhounds

Why do you think they are tipping? Insufficient velocity and/or twist rate? If so, 8.0 grains would be worse. A larger sample size and/or accuracy testing at longer range will show you.



Look at the holes in the target, they should be perfectly round.

Many of these are not, they are elliptical, an indicator that the bullet is unstable.

That's why I think it is tipping.

Ben

[texassako]

Is this the other bullet from that neat combination mold? It looks to be another typically accurate Ben PB load.

[1845greyhounds]

1845greyhounds
[I][U]
Look at the holes in the target, they should be perfectly round.

Many of these are not, they are elliptical, an indicator that the bullet is unstable.

That's why I think it is tipping.

Ben

What I meant is what is the CAUSE of the tipping? I agree that the holes look oblong and the boolits are tipping.

[Ben]

I suspect velocity that is too low ? ?

Most likely more speed would eventually stabilize the bullet.

Ben

[Ben]

Is this the other bullet from that neat combination mold? It looks to be another typically accurate Ben PB load.

texassako :

Yes, from my Accurate Brand " quad " brass mold you saw earlier.


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/haysb/007-38.jpg[/URL]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/haysb/006-40.jpg[/URL]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/haysb/004-52.jpg[/URL]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/haysb/003-57.jpg[/URL]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/haysb/002-61.jpg[/URL]

Ben

[Ben]

Ben ... is this boolit Tom's number 31-240H ? this looks like a winner to me and even at low speeds I bet it will do a number on anything it hits.

nice shooting and I am anxious to see what happens at 100 yds. that 8 grain load looks wonderful and id bet that it holds up at 100.

I also like the look of his 255 grain 31-255G boolit but wonder if the 10 twist barrel would stabilize it. course its not that much longer/heavier then yours so maybe.

thinkin I NEED to add an 06 barrel to my Encore collection ... singleshot should do fine with the longer boolits.


Mine is the Accurate 311235 A

[bigted]

that is another great looking boolit Ben. I been shooting blackpowder for long enough that I suspect the long slim nose would slump to the side ... but ... with smokeless I think this would be a non issue ... correct? also would depend on the lead mix for the nose strength.

these look like a good hunting boolit as well. I would bet that a boolit as such would do great on game if the lead mix is just rite to expand AND stabilize in the barrel ... penetration should be guaranteed I would think with this amount of weight.

do you know the speed with your Unique loads?

[Ben]

that is another great looking boolit Ben. I been shooting blackpowder for long enough that I suspect the long slim nose would slump to the side ... but ... with smokeless I think this would be a non issue ... correct? also would depend on the lead mix for the nose strength.

these look like a good hunting boolit as well. I would bet that a boolit as such would do great on game if the lead mix is just rite to expand AND stabilize in the barrel ... penetration should be guaranteed I would think with this amount of weight.

do you know the speed with your Unique loads?

No, I don't ? ?

[dougader]

Nice looking boolits! I'd love to hear about your results at 100 yards and if you try other powders, too.

Another mould I'm going to have to buy...

[w5pv]

Good luck Ben.I got very good results at 75 yrds with a 200 grain gas checked over 40 grains of 4831 and loobed with none other than Ben's Red shot out of my old jamatic 742.the result was 3/4" at 75 yards at my age that is a tack driver.

[Hamish]

Yesterday evening I was discussing chopping the nose off of the Lee 311-230-5R for use in the 300 Whisper with badgeredd. I considered the Lee mould a cheap starting point for proof of concept, but dislike the boat tail, (among other things).

It never ceases to tickle my funny bone when I find that whatever idea may wander across my noggin has already been done, and done well,,,,,,,,,.

Very nice Ben, but, just sop for your cb endeavors,,,,,,

[davidheart]

I'm sorry I didn't catch... what is the speed you're shooting these at, Ben?

[dougader]

I believe he said he didn't know the velocity.

[TXGunNut]

Another mould I'm going to have to buy...dougader


So many moulds, so little time.

[35 shooter]

Ben all your plain base shooting finally rubbed off on me a bit. I just received a NOE version of the 358009 with 2 cavity one pb and one gc. I'll start light loading the 35 whelen with unique and 4759 for around 1200 fps and give it a go.
Going for accuracy first ,then try to ease it up to 14 or 1500 fps for a hunting load or where ever leading starts. Of course i'm gonna put the gas to the gc boolit till my shoulder tells me to stop or accuracy suffers....just letting you know you gave me plain base fever. Can't wait to try it.:-)

[trapper9260]

I look back at the pics and you are right about the 8.0grs that is the best of them all and did see what you stated about the others.I have done some testing on a different cal. and it was with 308 semi-auto with cast and that the fast I had push them they keyhole on me and some had did the same as your other pics. I use GC on the ones I tested. cast dose not like to be push really fast. That is what i found on the gun I usen. Now for what i seen what you did with PB now you got me looking at looking for mold for my 06 now.

[Ben]

35 shooter

The plain base certainly isn't " the final answer " too all cast bullet shooting needs in rifle loads.

In my opinion, it does have its place however. I'm a hunter, so during " off - season " I'm always shooting my plain base bullets. That saves on gas checks ( and the time to install them ) and powder because I'm often shooting 8.5 grs. of a powder instead of 57 grs.

Obviously, you'll seldom get a good accurate plain base load that will shoot to the same point of impact as your higher velocity hunting loads. I have scopes on several of my rifles now that allow the windage and elevation turrets to be set on " 0 ". I can return to a high velocity hunting load " zero " in about 30 seconds with this feature.

Powder today isn't cheap ( if you can find it ). Cost savings is an issue . It is to all reloaders, that is one of the factors that got us all started reloading.

Reduced recoil, great groups, money saved, what isn't to like with plain base .30 cal, 8 mm, and .35 cal. rifle cast bullet shooting.

Ben

[rockrat]

If the boolit holes are oblong, you might have a bit of a stability problem. I had the same with a 310gr boolit in my 38-55 bolt gun, using Varget. Great groups, but oblong boolit holes. Increased the powder charge bit by bit and you could see the results on the targets. Same good grouping, but the oblong tendency was getting smaller and smaller. Finally got to where the holes were nice and round and the group was even better.
If the wind isn't blowing at the range (seldom), I can easily put 5 out of 5 on a 7" square gong @500yds.

[nanuk]

... the bullet is unstable.

That's why I think it is tipping.

Ben


some folks say I am unstable... and I tip, usually 20-25%...

maybe that is why other folks say I'm a bit s l o w !

[Ben]

You funny ! ! !

[bigted]

If the boolit holes are oblong, you might have a bit of a stability problem. I had the same with a 310gr boolit in my 38-55 bolt gun, using Varget. Great groups, but oblong boolit holes. Increased the powder charge bit by bit and you could see the results on the targets. Same good grouping, but the oblong tendency was getting smaller and smaller. Finally got to where the holes were nice and round and the group was even better.
If the wind isn't blowing at the range (seldom), I can easily put 5 out of 5 on a 7" square gong @500yds.



am curious on two counts Rockrat ... first is the bolt gun in 38-55 ... would love to hear about this rifle and see photo's of it ... secondly ... would like to hear about your load and boolit that does so well at 500 yds.

don't tease now ...

[DeanWinchester]

Hey Ben, what's the twist rate on that Tikka? I was feeding that boolit to a 12 twist 308 with a case full of Trail Boss and getting the same holes in my target.
If you get bored and wanna have fun, shove one of those through a few milk jugs full of water. It will definitely tumble and the water jugs will look like a small thermonuclear explosion took place.

[bigted]

Dean ... wonder what the velocity is with that Trail Boss load?

also do you load it up to touch the boolit base or just below it ... how many grains?

[DeanWinchester]

Sorry, don't remember the actual charge weight. When Ben got the mold, I chunked the data because I had already sold the rifle. I do remember using my cutaway case (and making a mess when I spilled the črap everywhere!) to figure out the max amount of TB I could get in there WITHOUT compressing it. Trail Boss don't like hugs so don't be squeezin' on it.

I wouldn't even begin to know where velocity was.

[TXGunNut]

Ben all your plain base shooting finally rubbed off on me a bit. I just received a NOE version of the 358009 with 2 cavity one pb and one gc.-35 shooter

I understand your position. I have some moulds that may have a gas check shank or two removed in the near future. Some of my leverguns will probably never go hunting so I might as well save the gas checks and powder for rifles that need them.

[PAT303]

35 shooter

The plain base certainly isn't " the final answer " too all cast bullet shooting needs in rifle loads.

In my opinion, it does have its place however. I'm a hunter, so during " off - season " I'm always shooting my plain base bullets. That saves on gas checks ( and the time to install them ) and powder because I'm often shooting 8.5 grs. of a powder instead of 57 grs.

Obviously, you'll seldom get a good accurate plain base load that will shoot to the same point of impact as your higher velocity hunting loads. I have scopes on several of my rifles now that allow the windage and elevation turrets to be set on " 0 ". I can return to a high velocity hunting load " zero " in about 30 seconds with this feature.

Powder today isn't cheap ( if you can find it ). Cost savings is an issue . It is to all reloaders, that is one of the factors that got us all started reloading.

Reduced recoil, great groups, money saved, what isn't to like with plain base .30 cal, 8 mm, and .35 cal. rifle cast bullet shooting.

Ben

Money saved???,all you've done is caused us all to start buying PB molds!!!!!.I always enjoy your threads. Pat

[Ben]

Money saved???,all you've done is caused us all to start buying PB molds!!!!!.I always enjoy your threads. Pat

Many thanks Pat,

Ben

[Ben]

DeanWinchester:

Hey Ben, what's the twist rate on that Tikka?

I " assume " it is 1-10 ? ?

I need to check it.

Ben

[TXGunNut]

Tikka twist for the 30-06 seems to be 1/11.

[Ben]

Tikka twist for the 30-06 seems to be 1/11.

My rifle is about 10 - 12 yrs. old and IS NOT a T-3 series rifle.

I wonder if its age makes any difference ?

Ben

[DeanWinchester]

11 twist? Thats kinda weird.

[TXGunNut]

11 twist? Thats kinda weird.

Sometimes weird is good. ;-)

[Ben]

Sometimes weird is good. ;-)

If mine is a 1-11 that could be part of the answer to the instability issue with this <-----------LONG...........> 240 gr. bullet I'm shooting right now.

[TXGunNut]

How long is that boolit? I don't like the Greenhill formula and wanted to try the Miller.

[DeanWinchester]

How long is that boolit? I don't like the Greenhill formula and wanted to try the Miller.

1.335"

[Ben]

1.335"

You just saved me a trip down to the loading bench.

Thanks,
Ben

[TXGunNut]

Too late in the day for advanced math, one cocktail too late @ any rate. ;-)

[TXGunNut]

If mine is a 1-11 that could be part of the answer to the instability issue with this <-----------LONG...........> 240 gr. bullet I'm shooting right now.


Considering the 300 AAC/Blackout optimal twist rate is reported to be around 1:7 to 1:8 you may be on to something.