cast wadcutter question

[truckmsl]

Hi guys/gals,

I often see folks mention their classic loads of .38 148 gr wadcutters loaded flush with the case under 2.8 to 3.0 gr of Bullseye or 231. My Speer manual agrees with this for hollow base wadcutters, but for bevel base cast it shows the wadcutter loaded longer at 1.295 oal with a considerably higher charge (3.9-4.5) of bullseye.

I'm curious if all the folks who use the more classic loading are talking about hollow base wadcutters only, or if they're using it for cast as well. I'm working up some loads for wadcutters in a Ruger GP100 (.357) and still haven't hit on the right combination for 25 yard accuracy. I'm currently casting the Lee 148 grain tumble lube wadcutter, sized to .358.

[Bass Ackward]

It's not so much the bullet type but matching the pressure to your bullet hardness and the bullet hardness to your rifling height / configuration. The hollow base bullet gives you added seal on low end of the pressure scale and helps brass expand to seal the chamber. You really need straight sided brass (not tapered inside) to not deform your slug as it is seated deeper which is another plus for the hollow base. Just depends on what problem you need to solve. If you take a more simplistic view, it's boils down to which one performs better.

When I have trouble with wadcutters down in this area, it's usually because my powder thrower is not accurate enough to throw consistently. Either that or when you are talking .1 grain making a difference, LLA or any lube for that matter exposed to the powder can easily contaminate that much powder that is just bouncing around in there.

[Char-Gar]

Factory 38 Special wadcutter match ammo is loaded with hollow based wadcutters. The bullets are longer for the weight than the solid base. The purpose of the hollow base is to move the center of gravity forward. The bullets are nose heavy and tend to fly straighter than the solid base. They behave something like a shuttle cock.

Powder charges and pressures are held lower for the hollow base because it is possible to blow the skirt of the bullet and it can remain behind in the barrel to form an obstruction for the next round.

Solid base wadcutter can be loaded to greater pressure and often do their best at 800 to 850 fps. The traditional HB wadcutter load loafs along at about 700 fps.

Hollow base wadcutters must be loaded in the match cases with almost no internal taper until the case head. Loading these cases also requires a special long expanding plug to open the case up the full length of the bullet. If the case is not opened up for the entire length of the bullet, the skirt is deformed and accuracy will suffer.

All things being equal, which they never are, a hollow base wadcutter will deliver better accuracy than a solid base. That is why the factories use them.

Even when using HB wadcutter, it is darn hard to get accuracy that approaches factory match ammo using handloads. We used to load ammo for practice, but when the match came, we all used factory match ammo. We had tested them all and found which our revolvers like best. We would them buy a case of that lot and use it only for matches.

[shooting on a shoestring]

Wadcutters for a .357 GP100. A man after my own heart! I use 358091 148gr bevel base wadcutter pushed with 7.5 gr Herco in my SP101 2.25" .357. I get 1040 fps and 2 to 3 inch groups at 25 yds. I use Felix lube and air cooled wheel weights. No leading in the SP101 even after several hundred rounds. I use this load for meaningful practice because its point of impact is very close to the point of impact of my carry loads (158 Gold Dots over 10.7 gr Blue Dot). However, that wadcutter at 1040 fps would make an entirely effective defensive load.

[truckmsl]

Shoestring - What OAL have you found that works the best for a BBWC in a .357?

[MakeMineA10mm]

I use the lighter load with both factory swaged HBWC and cast DEWCs, when I'm loading for target work.

My mentor showed me back in the 70s a Lyman cast WC (not double-ended, there was a front and a back end), that had a crimp groove so that about 1/8" of the bullet protruded from the case. He told me that since cast WCs don't have the skirt that can flare to fit the throat/bore to help accuracy, that the cast WC design had a short nose to help center the cartridge in the chamber throats, which helped accuracy. He also was a fan of these for self-defense purposes, when cast very hard and loaded up hot with Herco, SR4756, or Blue Dot. (Sorry don't remember his loads for these from way back then, but they were going around 950-1000fps, definitely not for snubbies or aluminum frame guns!)

[Lloyd Smale]

every time i work up a load for a wc i try them both ways. Sometimes it can make a big differnce in accuracy. Id say its about a toss up in percentage for which way has worked the best for me.

[shooting on a shoestring]

Amen to what MakeMinea10mm said. I use 358091 BBWC 148 gr which has the crimp groove and leaves about 1/8 inch hanging out the front. I also use 358089 PBWC 140 gr which gets seated slightly below flush and crimped over the front of the boolit.

I've never understood why people shy away from pushing these boolits fast. They carry 3 lube grooves and you have to get ridiculous to make them lead in most guns. I've also seen them shoot as well as SWCs at 50 yards. I'll bet there may be a noticable difference at 100 yds. However I don't typically shoot revolvers at 100 yds, I'm afraid I might strain the gun barrel.