How punt guns were used.

[waksupi]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O9r_ZckAmkc

[wlc]

I've never seen one built like that one. Neat! Thanks for sharing the video. I have seen one wood stocked punt gun in real life a long time ago. I'd love to have one, even if for nothing but a wall hanger.

[longbow]

More like a deck cannon!

I remember reading an article about market hunters in Newfoundland using what I remember they called punt guns... a little smaller than this one as they were shoulder fired. Possibly an error in memory or an error in the article. The reporter that wrote the article mentioned in passing that shooting one prone caused him to skid backward! I would think shooting one prone would result in serious and permanent bodily damage.

The Skookum Chief restaurant in North Vancouver had what I would guess was at least a 4 ga. shotgun or bigger hanging on the wall many, many years ago. It looked a lot like a Northwest Trade Musket on steroids as I recall (really BIG) and with a hole in it big enough to be worrying. When I saw it I recalled the article. Probably not a true punt gun unless it mounted on a pivot or trunnions but BIG nonetheless.

Good stuff! Interesting video.

Longbow

[skeettx]

http://i1086.photobucket.com/albums/j452/skeettx/puntgun.jpg

[andy h]

Here a long thread from one of our English forums showing the building from scratch the punt and the punt gun (Including the cartridges).

http://forums.pigeonwatch.co.uk/forums/topic/217901-making-a-gunning-punt-and-punt-gun/?hl=punt

[tomme boy]

We used to have a skull boat that we hunted duck out of. It was in the family from about 1900. It had the swivel mount on the front from when it had a 8 gauge black powder mounted to it. My grandfather aid they used to be able to get 15-20 ducks sometimes with it. He said they loaded it with 5-6 oz of shot. They were mostly diver ducks. Mainly Canvasbacks. They are one of the best eating wild ducks there is.

[waksupi]

Unfortunately, many of the old punt guns were collected by fish and Game in the early 20th century, and destroyed. I imagine there were a lot in the Chesapeake Bay, and Mississippi River drainage.

Great link, Andy!

[John Boy]

Waksupi, the only original one I've seen remaining is in the Havre de Grace Decoy Museum in Maryland - scull boat mounted with punt and kerosene reflector lantern mounted in the bow next to the punt. The market hunters of the day also used toller geese. This was a tame goose that was leg banded on the boat and used a live decoy

[wlc]

Here a long thread from one of our English forums showing the building from scratch the punt and the punt gun (Including the cartridges).

http://forums.pigeonwatch.co.uk/forums/topic/217901-making-a-gunning-punt-and-punt-gun/?hl=punt

Thanks for that link!! I just got through browsing through all 52 pages of the thread.

[SWANEEDB]

Been quite a few years ago I had an article on the punt guns, see if I can relate some of it. Some were in skual boats built in the back of it several barrels were fixed together in a row, loaded with black powder, some did not use shot but some all they had were, nails, bolts and whatever, they would float up to ducks or whatever, these barrels were fixed with a cord and one pull would fire all of them at once, punt guns were also used on praire birds also, don't think they used a boat tho. 1920 (I think) is the year when they outlawed the use of the punt guns, shooters were also called market getters. Ha, how about that. Memory still works a little bit at times.

[longbow]

Well, that is a really interesting link! I scanned through fairly quickly and mostly looking at the pictures with a bit of reading posts but will go back through in more detail when I have time.

Quite the project! And here I thought punt guns had disappeared before cartridge days. I guess thinking about it I have heard of punt guns being used into the early 1900's but just assumed they were old muzzleloading punt guns. Live and learn.

I was right though... it is a deck cannon! That one would be a wee bit large to be hand held for sure.

Really interesting. Thanks for posting.

Longbow

[rondog]

Interesting! I'd heard of punt guns before, but always assumed they were fired up into the sky at flocks flying over. Had no idea a "punt" was actually a boat, and the guns were fired at rising flocks! Makes sense though.

[Squeeze]

Theres a few at the Tuckerton Seaport here in NJ. Some of the old timers who taught me duck hunting were market gunners back in the day and told many stories of their punts, sneakboxes, and garveys. I remember they said that some of the guns would be swung just at the point of firing to try to swing the spread over more area. It was a tricky timing dance, and most of the guns were fuse fired. There are some modern versions that just get fired at the yearly decoy festivals made from schedule 80 steam pipe and similar. It has been illegal here for some time. And every one thast I knew has now passed. This method is still used in parts of nova scotia, and some places in england where its still legal usually mounted to a scull type rig, and sculled in to floating flocks that tended to "raft up" near the center of the bay (Barnegat) there were also shoulder mounted versions, almost always home made. Locally here Punt has come to describe almost any old huge bore shotgun made for fowling. There were plenty of old rumors of the load being broken glass, nails, gravel etc. But the guys who did it, all assured me that was just rumors. There was money in the down market, but they also sold the ducks to NY and Philadelphia markets and restaurants. They did say that canvasbacks were so named at that time due to being shipped (usually by railway) in burlap, or canvas sacks, On the outside of which was marked canvas-back. Meaning to return the empty sacks so they could be reused to ship another load of ducks the next time. Supposedly before this, they had no real name for the particular species, whose migrations would literally darken the sky. Stories talk of sheer numbers not seen since and multiples of any other known great migration. Now there is a second, or third generation removed who were students of the original market gunners and decoy carvers/ boatbuilders still locally working the craft. Most were at one point an apprentice of an original local legend. Today we call most of these style boats 'scull' and in todays lingo a punt would be a smaller version a bit different design mosly used by poling them up and down the narrow channels through the marshes, usually during early rail season, and some ducking. This is probably mostly a local teminology, and really almost unused in todays age. No young kid today wants to brave the marsh in early fall to be surely eaten alive by the local green head flies in search of railbird. Even the style boats are a rarity anymore.

[10 ga]

2 of my great grandfathers and both of my grandfathers used either punt or battery (multi barrel) guns. they hunted the Chesapeake Bay from Hungars Creek to Cape Charles and the seaside from Machipongo to Fishermans Island. I know of 2 guns that are "hidden" even now. There are several that were confiscated from ancestors that are in the DGIF HQ in Richmond VA now. 1 punter and 1 battery in their collection that were confiscated on the ES of VA. My bro has great granfathers #8 double gun and loading tools. contrary to what tomme boy posted the #8 gauge guns shot 1 & 7/8 oz to 2 &1/8 oz loads, a 5 or 6 oz load would be used in a 3 or 4 gauge gun never in a #8. Most of the boats used to "skiff to the fowl" were open, not decked like in the English demo. They had distinctive construction features and were specialty builds for the hunters. As for retrieving the kill that was the origin of the "Chesapeake Bay Retreiver" dogs. Not all of the shots were from a "skiff" or boat either. From the early colonial era use of a "blind" with a gun fixed over a bait or high shell/sandbar for a shot was often practiced. One of if not the 1st "conservation" law enacted was concerning use of "punt and battery" guns at night. It prohibited shooting at night. Mostly because free men and Indians and mixed breed persons night hunted for to sell their take and shot fowl on the bait areas the plantations set up, specifically to shoot cheap food for slaves. It wasn't a conservation law it was an economic control law. Seems things have not changed much in 300 years. For anyone interested in the history the book "Outlaw Gunner" by Harry Walsh has much good into. BTDT! 10

[DIRT Farmer]

My ancesters hunted the Egg Harbor area of New Jersey, both from punts and bllinds. The punt gun per family stories and history posted from the area described fireing into a raft of ducks after skulling in close then shooting cripples with standard shotguns.
Punt guns were used here on the Ohio, I handled a 4 bore double that had a tiller mount. The standard load was the old bore standard, the number of bore diamater balls to weigh a pound. a 2 bore shot 8 oz of shot, a 4 bore 4 oz of shot.

[tomme boy]

Well it has been since 1979 since I last talked to my grandfather so the amount of shot may be wrong. But I do know that the amount you listed 10ga seems way to light for even a 10ga. I can get 1 7/8 in a 3" 12ga. These were muzzle loaders. You can put whatever amount of shot you want in it. Remington list 2 oz and 3 oz for the 8ga.

[WRideout]

When I was a lot younger and lived on the Left Coast, my ex-wife and I would take an occasional trip to Reno NV (yes I have vices.) At one of the casinos, I believe it was the Nugget, the owner used the walls of the casino to display his gun collection, mostly western type stuff, Winchesters and Colt SAA. On the floor, he actually had a punt gun on display. The casino owner evidently loved guns, but had no interest in boats. The beautiful hand-made punt had been cut down to about a third of it's length, to act as a display mount for the gun. As an aficionado of wooden boats, it about made me cry.

Wayne

[WRideout]

Well it has been since 1979 since I last talked to my grandfather so the amount of shot may be wrong. But I do know that the amount you listed 10ga seems way to light for even a 10ga. I can get 1 7/8 in a 3" 12ga. These were muzzle loaders. You can put whatever amount of shot you want in it. Remington list 2 oz and 3 oz for the 8ga.

As I understand it, in the BP days, a standard load for a 10 ga would have been equal to a modern 12 ga. Just based on what I have read.

Wayne

[RMc]

As I understand it, in the BP days, a standard load for a 10 ga would have been equal to a modern 12 ga. Just based on what I have read.

Wayne

Shotshells of the Black Powder era were loaded lighter than most shooters realize:

1894 Sears Catalog:

http://www.tbullock.com/images/BPSG/bpsg-sears.gif

1903 Sears Catalog:

Note the ever-popular #5 Western buckshot load for the 12 gauge. This 12 gauge load was equivalent to todays commercial 16 gauge buckshot offerings.

http://www.tbullock.com/images/BPSG/bpsg-sears-1903.gif

[John Boy]

When punts - 8 & 4 bores were used in a blind ... here's how the birds were brought to the blind:
* Drive a stake in the water at a distance. Salt the stake with corn
* When the birds started working the bait - move the stake a little closer
* Then a day or so before the shoot, move the stake within gunning range and bait the stake with a bag of corn
* The morning or evening of the shoot - the feeding frenzy is in place - the bore is aimed at the stake - BOOM and go pick them up!

[bbailey7821]

Very cool and informative! I want one!

[Slowpoke]

When punts - 8 & 4 bores were used in a blind ... here's how the birds were brought to the blind:
* Drive a stake in the water at a distance. Salt the stake with corn
* When the birds started working the bait - move the stake a little closer
* Then a day or so before the shoot, move the stake within gunning range and bait the stake with a bag of corn
* The morning or evening of the shoot - the feeding frenzy is in place - the bore is aimed at the stake - BOOM and go pick them up!

That is how I was taught to hunt duck's on the Chesapeake bay in the Mid 1970's from off shore blinds, except we used regular shot guns. We would put the bait stake the legal distance from the blind, then when we wanted some ducks we would drop a buoy and pull the stake (Usually a Pine sapling) and stick it in the mud about 30 yrd,s from our blind and set out the decoys.

We would dump a 50 lb bag of corn twice a week into the prop wash while doing a circle around the bait stake.

All the small neighborhood mom and pop grocery stores sold whole corn for just this purpose.

In those days just about everybody that duck hunted the bay did it that way so you ended up for the most part eating corn fed duck. It was quite the experience for someone from the desert SW.

good luck

[BAGTIC]

My great grandfather hunted for the market until it was banned. I remember he used a 1 1/4 oz load but I don't recall shot size. From the catalog chart if could have been 5 or 6. I wonder why modern guns require so much longer cases and heavier charges of larger shot? Have the birds really evolved that much?

[Col4570]

Captain Peter Hawker used a Double Muzzle loading Punt gun.For one Barrel he went back in time and fitted a flintlock.The other barrel had a Percussion Lock.It was a single trigger gun with both the Percussion and Flintlock Hammers falling together.The slight delay he designed for the flintlock ignited fractionaly later than the percussion Lock.The boat tilted back on firing and the delayed shot hit the rising birds that had been missed when he killed those on the water.

[jumbeaux]

My great grandfather was a market hunter on the Missouri River in the late 1890's until his death...my dad remembered drifting into a mess of ducks and his grandfather setting the gun off...he said the smoke cloud was unbelievable...he recalled the load being a pound of black powder and handfuls of broken nails, tacks, small pieces of slag etc...he said there would be Mallards floating everywhere...I have a picture of him standing almost knee deep in Mallards holding either a 1893 or 1897 Winchester...great grandpa was a hog farmer, hunting guide, market hunter and gambler...he died over 20 years before I was born...

rick

[Dusty Ed]

Howdy Squeese
There are quite a few youngins in South Jersey that live to hunt the marshes for ducks and geese an two of them are my Grandsons.
They are Commercial fishermen, My oldest grandson Ryan is now 24 he just open a store on the Washington St. Maul called Galvanic.
really an interesting store.
You were speaking about the Barnegat Bay, My first cousin owns the Cassidy 's Viking Village Fish Market
Dusty Ed

[John Boy]

I get to bait ducks once a year in September LEGALLY with corn!
Each year, State Wildlife Divisions perform an early season banding survey for resident ducks in their State. I have been a volunteer for 10 years to run one or more banding sites with 'confusion' wire traps or doing a drop net rocket shoot. Here's a link you'll enjoy with pictures of some of my banding sights including pictures and a black powder rocket shoot ... http://njwa.org/smf/index.php?topic=1116.0
Be sure to read how a rocket net shoot is done!

September 2013, I found a 'honey hole' of local ducks in a lagoon that we trapped with confusion traps. On the 1st day of the close of the traps, we captured 64 mallards. Even while we were banding birds about 20 feet from the traps - 12 more 'rushed' to get their share of the remaining corn. In total for this site, we banded 114 mallards & black ducks with release of over 50 prior year banded birds and recaptures.

For you NJ waterfowlers - don't ask where because 'I've been sworn to secrecy' and don't even hunt it myself. In addition, there is a dynamite pintail banding site that even the NJ Senior Biologist won't tell me where it is in Cumberland County