First time Finish-Reaming a Short-Chambered Barrel

[Deep Six]

The final step in my custom all-work-done-by-me 6.5x55 Mauser 98 is to finish the chamber in the short-chambered ER Shaw barrel. The barrel is already fitted to the action, blued, and bedded in the stock. After letting it sit all winter, I finally got around to ordering the rental chamber reamer, which showed up today (got it from Elk Ridge).

So, with eager anticipation, I carefully disassembled the rifle and placed the barreled action in my padded vice. I took the bolt apart and removed the firing pin. I then tested a piece of factory loaded ammo. Sure enough the bolt wouldn't go all the way. Then I tried the go-gauge. It wouldn't go either. I then inspected the reamer. It was marked "6.5x55 Swedish" and "PTG Sharpening #2 12/13". It looked every bit as sharp as the two brand new chucking reamers I had sitting on the bench waiting for a different project.

So, satisfied with the reamer, I oiled it up and proceeded to test fit it in the chamber. It was a good snug fit yet turned smoothly. I pulled it out and put more oil in the chamber. Then back in with the reamer, followed by attaching the t-handle. Here's where things get strange: it doesn't really cut. I gave it several turns and it didn't really feel like it was "grabbing" any steel like I'm used to with other reamers. After about 20 turns, I pulled it out to inspect. Almost no shavings. Cleaned the chamber then checked the go-gauge and no progress. I then did a second inspection to make sure I was turning it the right direction - check. So back in for about 100 turns. This time there was a slight amount of shavings on the shoulder area of the reamer but still no measurable progress on the go-gauge.

I did this for about an hour. Probably better than 600 turns on it now. I would do about 100, pull it out and clean the very small amount of chips off and check the go-gauge again. I still have not made measureable progress on the go-gauge. The reamer isn't showing any signs of miss-use.

What gives? I knew turning it by hand wasn't going to go super quick, but this thing just doesn't seem to be cutting hardly at all. Is this normal and I just need to keep at it or is something wrong? I figured I'd ask before I ruined a barrel or reamer.

[lefty o]

it can take a while by hand. just continue turning with light hand pressure pushing forward as you turn it. it shouldnt feel grabby or like its biting hard, but continue to pull it and clean of all the chips periodically, and keep it well lubed, and do not turn it backwards. you probably wont visually see much progress until you get to the last few thousandths and can actually watch the bolt handle start closing.

[Deep Six]

Yes - I know about not turning reamers backwards. This thing just doesn't feel like other reamers I've used. I can barely feel any cutting at all. It seems like 100 turns should result in a substantial amount of shavings. Instead I get just enough shavings to dirty up the edge of the cloth I'm using to clean the reamer off.

[lefty o]

does the reamer feel sharp to the touch? if it feels sharp try adding just a little more pressure behind it. a finish reamer makes a very very fine cut.

[pkie44]

Pilot to big for the bore?

[RustyReel]

Deep,

I know how you feel. I've done three of these so far (all the same day) and all took longer than I first thought. Before I did my first one I had read a couple of reviews somewhere from guys who said they only needed two or three turns from the reamer to finish their chamber. That is what I expected, but my experience was very similar to yours. When I started the process, I was counting the number of turns, but I quickly gave up on that!

You indicated you removed the firing pin, but you also must remove the extractor from your Mod 98 bolt. If not, you will not get an accurate reading from your go gauge. You do need to put SOME light pressure on the reamer. Cutting at the beginning of the process is very light with very few shavings....actually look more like mud than shavings. You will get there eventually!

When you get to where the bolt is fully forward, or nearly so, I would suggest you only do a couple of turns at a time and then check your gauges. You don't want to get frustrated/impatient at this point a go too far!

Hang in there, you will get it done. I'm close to doing a couple more, 458WM and 257 Rob.........some of us never learn.

[Deep Six]

To answer the questions posted above:

1) Yes, the reamer looks and feels just like the brand new chucking reamers I had sitting on the bench for a different project
2) The pilot fits in the bore perfectly

So from you all have posted, what I am experiencing is common and I just need to keep at it. Just wanted to make sure I wasn't doing something wrong. I'll go hit it again for a while. Wish me luck.

[RustyReel]

Just to confirm...you did remove the extractor from the bolt....correct??

[country gent]

Also short chambers can vary by barrel makers idea of what is "short" Kriegers short chamber is .050 or .100 I dont remeber which right now. But some cound be anywhere up to that also, possibly even more. Worse would be chattering cutter. What oil are you using? What material is the barrel and who made it. I beleive it was black star made a harder barrel that would cut much slower. Stainless is harder to cut than carbon steel.

[Deep Six]

1) Yes, I removed the extractor
2) It is an ER Shaw standard 4140 alloy steel barrel. The chamber appeared to be about 0.060 short.
3) It doesn't feel like it's chattering. I'm using Oatey Clear thread cutting oil as that is what I had on hand. There's probably something better out there but this is the right product for the job. http://www.menards.com/main/plumbing/rough-plumbing/installation-repair/cutting-oil-lubricants/clear-thread-cutting-oil-32-oz/p-1456647-c-8526.htm

I worked on it again for another 2 hours. I managed to deepen the chamber by about 0.010" total so far. At this rate, it's going to take me two full 8 hour days of reaming to cut 60 thousandths. Something is wrong. I am going to call Elk Ridge tomorrow and see what they have to say. I'm concerned that the pilot is going to damage the rifling over the course of 16 hours of reaming.

[bruce drake]

I've used Elk Ridge Reamers several times and they are always sharp and ready to go when they come out.

Here is what I do to finish chambers. Use a 4 inch 3/8" socket extension and invert the extension so the socket slips over the reamer like the T-handle you have. Then slip a 3/8" 8-point socket over the extension bar then either slip it into a 1/2" drill or place it in a socket wrench. And you'll have a better cut. A&B Barrels short-chambered means SHORT-chambered! :)

Good Luck!

[Deep Six]

How many hours of reaming did it take you to finish a chamber? Something just isn't right in my situation. I've never used a cutting tool that went anywhere near this S-L-O-W before.

[Skipper]

I had the exact same problem with a .32-20 reamer several years ago. It turned out that someone had sharpened the cutting edges at the wrong angle........looked sharp as hell but it didn't cut and was never going to.

[Deep Six]

OK. Gave it another hour. I'm definitely making progress now. I *think* I have about 15 thousandths left to go (I haven't yet devised a completely accurate way to mic it). I supposed I'll just keep drudging along tomorrow. The rental period goes through Wed. Looks like I'll have something to do with my evenings this week.


I had the exact same problem with a .32-20 reamer several years ago. It turned out that someone had sharpened the cutting edges at the wrong angle........looked sharp as hell but it didn't cut and was never going to.

^THIS is exactly what I'm afraid of. If I do manage to eventually get the go-gauge to fit using a reamer that was sharpened in such a manner, what's the resulting chamber going to be good for?

[bruce drake]

by hand...about 2 hours.

with a cordless drill...30 minutes

[Deep Six]

Yeah I couldn't resist the temptation to chuck up another socket extension in the 18v Milwaukee and give it a try. I decided there was too much wobble and was concerned about the pilot damaging the rifling so I went back to hand turning. Was that 2 hours for the whole job or just reaming?

Thus far I've got about 4 hours into it and still have a little ways to go. However, only about 50% of the 4 hours was actual reaming. The rest was cleaning and measuring.

[fouronesix]

After all that- something isn't right. One of three possibilities. The reamer is dull, it was ground at the wrong angle or the chamber is chrome lined or harder than Hades.

If you're sure of the source/history of the original barrel, then I'd doubt the third possibility. However, I know that attempting to ream chromed or super hard material yields results identical to what you describe.

I have no idea about customer service at that company but I'd be tempted to call, explain the problem and send it back.

[bruce drake]

2 hours includes the cleaning and measuring. same with the 30min.

I fix the action in a sturdy bench vise so the rifle is very steady and vertical for the reamer to do its work and the cutting oil to clean the chamber through gravity.

If you really want it steady, put a Universal Swivel socket on the extension and the reamer will steady itself out if you can't hold the drill steady enough.
I keep the revolutions slow on the drill (usually 100rpm). Faster than by hand but definitely not as fast as a lathe which would require you to run a HSS reamer at 200-400 (depending on the barrel's hardness)
A&B Barrels are consider softer than a Stainless barrel (which requires a carbide reamer and a higher speed for a smooth chamber) and you should max at 400rpms with them no matter what you use to ream it.

I flush the reamer and chamber with cutting oil very often when I do one by hand. Every 10 ratchets (5 revolutions of the reamer) or 15 seconds of cutting by drill I clean the reamer and chamber and test with the proper gauges with a stripped bolt until the headspace passes.

I do a lot more cleaning and measuring than I do cutting. Measure twice and cut once is an important mantra to repeat through the whole process.

The procedure with the Universal socket works. I used it with a 2" and a 4" socket extension to recently ream a new chamber on a Garand barrel while the barrel was on the receiver still to get around the closed rear of the rifle's receiver.

Bruce

[lefty o]

you do not need a carbide reamer for a SS barrel.

[bruce drake]

You may not "need" one but its recommended for Stainless Steel for longer reamer life.

[lefty o]

SS barrels are SOFTER than carbon steel barrels, there is no need for a carbide reamer.

[Deep Six]

The barrel was brand new, custom made to my order from ER Shaw. It is 4140 steel (industry standard for blued rifle barrels) and is definitely not chrome lined.

I did call Elk Ridge this morning and they agreed that something must be wrong with the current reamer and are sending me another free of charge. My only concern is that some portion of the chamber got out of spec due to the amount of trying I did with the 1st reamer. I guess if it doesn't shoot good I could re-chamber to something with a bigger/longer case such as 6.5-06 or 6.5-284.

[fouronesix]

Good to hear about the customer service in case I ever use them- thanks for sharing.

Doubtful that you went off axis and did any damage- you'd have to work pretty hard to get one a bunch out of kilter with hand tools finishing a short chamber. And yes, I figured it was regular barrel steel, so it should ream fairly smoothly. You can set the barrel vertical in a vise so gravity is not fighting staying on axis and even make a DIY bushing for the handle shank to help it stay centered in the action. Good luck!

[bruce drake]

I must have been of my rocker! I'm sorry, I was thinking Chromed Chambers which are harder than 4140.

please forgive my previous post which was in error.

[fguffey]

So, satisfied with the reamer, I oiled it up and proceeded to test fit it in the chamber

Deep six, You oiled it up, with what?

F. Guffey

[Deep Six]

Deep six, You oiled it up, with what?

F. Guffey

See post #10.

[fouronesix]

I must have been of my rocker! I'm sorry, I was thinking Chromed Chambers which are harder than 4140.

please forgive my previous post which was in error.

:) Actually it could also be partially my fault for even bringing up chrome. I didn't think chrome sounded like a possibility from the OP/ Shaw barrel- but you never know. However, I threw it into the discussion because even a sharp/correct reamer on chrome will act the same as a dull/incorrect reamer on standard CM steel.

[fguffey]

I did this for about an hour. Probably better than 600 turns on it now. I would do about 100, pull it out and clean the very small amount of chips off and check the go-gauge again. I still have not made measureable progress on the go-gauge. The reamer isn't showing any signs of miss-use.

I have reamers that are at the 'end of life' that work better than your new one, but I can get the same results with a new/sharp reamer AND THE WRONG OIL.

f. guffey

[mrbill2]

I have reamers that are at the 'end of life' that work better than your new one, but I can get the same results with a new/sharp reamer AND THE WRONG OIL.

f. guffey

OK Smartie pants. WHATS THE RIGHT OIL.:kidding:

[MaLar]

Brownells sells Do Drill.

http://www.brownells.com/gunsmith-tools-supplies/general-gunsmith-tools/taps-dies/tapping-cutting-fluids/universal-do-drill-prod1120.aspx

I was taping some holes for a sight, and had the tap squeak on me not a good sound when taping.
Ordered some Do Drill and I have never looked back. Tap went in like butter.

LaMar

[Deep Six]

Like I said, there's probably better a better lubricant out there, somewhere. But I was using a lubricant specifically designed for use with hand-turned machine tools when cutting steel. The lubricant was not the problem. FWIW, I've used the same bottle of lubricant to ream revolver throats and it worked just peachy.

[fguffey]

First time Finish-Reaming a Short-Chambered Barrel




So, with eager anticipation, I carefully disassembled the rifle and placed the barreled action in my padded vice. I took the bolt apart and removed the firing pin. I then tested a piece of factory loaded ammo. Sure enough the bolt wouldn't go all the way. Then I tried the go-gauge. It wouldn't go either.

So, satisfied with the reamer, I oiled it up and proceeded to test fit it in the chamber. It was a good snug fit yet turned smoothly. I pulled it out and put more oil in the chamber. Then back in with the reamer, followed by attaching the t-handle. Here's where things get strange: it doesn't really cut. I gave it several turns and it didn't really feel like it was "grabbing" any steel like I'm used to with other reamers. After about 20 turns, I pulled it out to inspect. Almost no shavings. Cleaned the chamber then checked the go-gauge and no progress. I then did a second inspection to make sure I was turning it the right direction - check. So back in for about 100 turns. This time there was a slight amount of shavings on the shoulder area of the reamer but still no measurable progress on the go-gauge.

I did this for about an hour. Probably better than 600 turns on it now. I would do about 100, pull it out and clean the very small amount of chips off .

What gives? I knew turning it by hand wasn't going to go super quick,

It is recommended to go slow, when removing stock with a sharp reamer/cutting tool, it is not slow. If the minimum length/full length sized case would not allow the bolt to close, we know the go-gage will not allow the bolt to close. There is between .004" and .005" difference in length between the length of the chamber from the shoulder to the bolt face and the case from the shoulder to the case head.


I've used the same bottle of lubricant to ream revolver throats and it worked just peachy.


I did this for about an hour. Probably better than 600 turns on it now. I would do about 100, pull it out and clean the very small amount of chips off .

An hour, 600 turns +/- a few, then 100 and check, long before now you should have decided there was something very wrong. To give the rental company the benefit of the doubt, in my opinion, you own it to them try another oil, in an attempt to be clear, the oil has nothing to do with lubricating. The operator of the reamer does not want cuttings to stick to the reamer and reduce friction.

Try Granger, I have 3 bolt distributors within 2 miles of me, the Granger is included in that short distance, and I have resource people. Between three of us we have 7 running lathes, that does not include the lathes we have put away, like the small lathe that can be carried under the arm, it has chucks on both ends etc.

F. Guffey

[arjacobson]

I bet your reamer doesn't have enough back relief cut into it.

[bruce drake]

I use Walter Coolcut Cutting Oil. Its about $18 for a 12oz bottle but its great for cutting by hand without chattering or binding.
http://www.walter.com/WalterDocuments/documents/msds/walter_ca/en/L-09.PDF
You cut it 6 to 1 for lathe work if you have a pump to lubricate the cut but when I do a chamber cut by hand I use it at 100% strength.

Bruce

[Deep Six]

The new reamer came today. It actually looked like it had a lot more use on it than first one did. None the less, it finished the chamber nicely in about 45 minutes. Obviously something was wrong with the 1st reamer.

I just finished putting the gun back together. At first it wouldn't feed right, but then I remembered 6.5x55's rim diameter is actually 10 thousandths bigger than the standard 8x57/.30-06/.308 cartridges. The bolt face was actually big enough, it was the extractor that needed work. A little stoning and sanding on the extractor and it was feeding smoothly. By then it was a little dark to fire the first shot, so that will have to wait for tomorrow. We'll see how it shoots, but I'm very pleased with the way it turned out for my first attempt at rifle building. Definitely learned some stuff when I go for the next one.

Oh, and the cutting I oil I had worked just fine once I had working reamer!

[fouronesix]

45 minutes is more like it- good news! Something wasn't right with the first one.

[Deep Six]

Managed to squeeze in 10 shots today after work. The first was the old "put on welders gloves and face mask, point at ground at arms length, consider how sure you are everything was put together right, and then pull the trigger" shot. That worked as expected so I proceeded to put it on the target.

Boy will this thing shoot! Next four shots were all touching at 50 yards. Then I cleaned it and fired another 5 round group that were also all touching. And this with cheap PPU 139 gr soft point ammo ($13/box I think). I can't wait to see what my handloads will do! I'm planning on 140 Berger VLDs in front of a stiff charge of IMR 4831 in the PPU brass. Maybe I'll get to that load at 100 yards (limit of my backyard range) this weekend.

[freebullet]

A buddy and I reamed a few barrels by hand recently. We used Manson throat reamers though. The steel barrels were easy. The stainless barrel was very slow going, but didn't do any damage to the reamer. I found 3 in one oil worked better than cutting oil when hand turning the reamer. Try a thicker oil.

[Deep Six]

A buddy and I reamed a few barrels by hand recently. We used Manson throat reamers though. The steel barrels were easy. The stainless barrel was very slow going, but didn't do any damage to the reamer. I found 3 in one oil worked better than cutting oil when hand turning the reamer. Try a thicker oil.

See the above 5 or so posts - the chamber is finished. Problem was a bad reamer. They sent me a replacement and it worked great.

[Cap'n Morgan]

Once a chamber reamer starts to dull it needs a certain amount of lengthwise pressure to "bite" properly. That's why the operation is best done in a lathe where the tailstock can be used to keep the reamer in contact. Since all chambers have more or less of a tapered body, the tapered part of the reamer must have sharp cutting edges (a truly cylindrical reamer only cuts on the front geometry and actually has small cylindrical guide flats on the outside of the flutes). If you don't have access to a lathe, a drill press can be used in a pinch.

[tek4260]

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/513/4huc.jpg (https://imageshack.com/i/e94hucj)

The above is a simple way to see how much you are cutting.

and screwing the barrel down on a round will show you how much you will need to remove

http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm35/tk3945/B5A36647-5C23-4C39-8EB5-0DDEB6646AB6-21689-00002705E681FED0_zps5c31e2ad.jpg~original (http://s292.photobucket.com/user/tk3945/media/B5A36647-5C23-4C39-8EB5-0DDEB6646AB6-21689-00002705E681FED0_zps5c31e2ad.jpg.html)

Not scientific, but gives you an idea of how much has been cut and how much more needs to be cut to save all the checking for the end when you are close.

[fguffey]

Are we there yet? Hours of reaming, it is possible all the reamers are dull, just how dangerous would a sharp reamer would be. I own all of my reamers, I have access to 200+ more, I never know how sharp the other reamers are going to be. If the chamber is short, I determine how short.

F. Guffey

[Deep Six]

Yeah it's done. See the last 10 posts or so. The first reamer was bad. I finished in 45 minutes with the 2nd reamer they sent me. My cutting oil worked fine once I had a working reamer.

[akajun]

Posts like this make me glad I have a lathe. However, I do use pull through reamers on m1 garands, m1a's, 03a3's, etc when chambering short chambered criterion and krieger barrels. If you have never used one I highly recomend that route if you are going to hand turn a lot of chambers. Its actually faster than on my lathe and , I feel, just as accurate. Also it only takes about 10 minutes, mostly because you have to back the reamer out and blow off the chips. However when the bolt closes, your chamber is at 0 headspace. I usually take anotherfull turn with a little forward pressure on the bolt to give an extra .001.
Also one of the best chambering/tapping fluids I have ever used is rigid pipe threading oil cut 20% with ATF. If used to be a recomended lubricant on the ptg website.

[2shot]

I had ordered a brand new reamer form one of the BIG supplyers of chambering reamers. had the same problem you did and I called and talked with the owner of the company. Sent it back and the reamer was checked. Seems that the whole batch of reamers that were sharpened with the one I recieved had the wrong angle cut on the reamer. It would spin but not cut. I was sent a new one and all is good now. Glad you got a new reamer, obviously the first one you were sent had a bad angle on it.

2shot

[fguffey]

obviously the first one you were sent had a bad angle on it.

And it could not have been anything else.

akajun, I have no problem with making all the measurements and cutting the chamber before installing the barrel. I also have modified bolts, they are not for everyone.

F.Guffey

[lefty o]

And it could not have been anything else.



lets see, same guy, same barrel, same cutting fluid, different reamer=different results. where do you think the problem was?

[fguffey]

it can take a while by hand. just continue turning with light hand pressure pushing forward as you turn it. it shouldnt feel grabby or like its biting hard, but continue to pull it and clean of all the chips periodically, and keep it well lubed, and do not turn it backwards. you probably wont visually see much progress until you get to the last few thousandths and can actually watch the bolt handle start closing.





So, satisfied with the reamer, I oiled it up and proceeded to test fit it in the chamber. It was a good snug fit yet turned smoothly. I pulled it out and put more oil in the chamber. Then back in with the reamer, followed by attaching the t-handle. Here's where things get strange: it doesn't really cut. I gave it several turns and it didn't really feel like it was "grabbing" any steel like I'm used to with other reamers. After about 20 turns, I pulled it out to inspect. Almost no shavings. Cleaned the chamber then checked the go-gauge and no progress. I then did a second inspection to make sure I was turning it the right direction - check. So back in for about 100 turns. This time there was a slight amount of shavings on the shoulder area of the reamer but still no measurable progress on the go-gauge.

I did this for about an hour. Probably better than 600 turns on it now. I would do about 100, pull it out and clean the very small amount of


Its actually faster than on my lathe and , I feel, just as accurate. Also it only takes about 10 minutes, mostly because you have to back the reamer out and blow off the chips.

600 turns? "I did this for an hour?" and then
Also it only takes about 10 minutes The answers got better as the thread moved forward.

Speaking of moving forward:
you probably wont visually see much progress until you get to the last few thousandths and can actually watch the bolt handle start closing. did you assume he was using a pull through reamer, I ask because Acajun mentioned a pull through late on page 3, and? He understood 600 turns and a hour of turning shouts, STOP! Something is seriously wrong.

F. Guffey

[akajun]

No Mr. GUffey, It is obvious that the OP was not using a Pull through reamer. I was just posting that for the benifit of others who do not have a lathe that they can finish ream chambers by hand with a better meathod than using a t hande on a socket extention, or if they do have a lathe, that I can chamber the barrel without having to wait for my lathe to be free, setting up, and dialing in, taking a cut and measuring.
THe problem with using a reamer by hand and pushing, is that you can easily cut an oversize or off center chamber . While not impossible, with a pull through reamer the likelyhood of doing so is nill. Just pointing out another means to an end for a functioning rifle.

[fguffey]

akajun

No Mr. GUffey, It is obvious that the OP was not using a Pull through reamer

Akajun, forgive, you are correct. It was obvious to you and me, I understood every word you said, but the quote I posted:


it can take a while by hand. just continue turning with light hand pressure pushing forward as you turn it. it shouldnt feel grabby or like its biting hard, but continue to pull it and clean of all the chips periodically, and keep it well lubed, and do not turn it backwards.
you probably wont visually see much progress until you get to the last few thousandths and can actually watch the bolt handle start closing. came from one of the first responses.

About that time there was oil and more oil and plenty of oil and continue as in keep on keeping on and continue doing it wrong. I appreciate the help,

Thank you,

F. Guffey

[lefty o]

since you quoted me, i will tell you. no, it was not assumed he was using a pull through reamer, it was assumed he was using a standard finishing reamer. but i digress, no one but you knows everything, so we'll all just bow down now!