Working up a load from educated guessing?

[LittleBill]

Once again I am frustrated by my inability to find information on load data. In some instances I just don't look in all the right places, and in others, there doesn't really seem to be any. Currently I am working on loads for my Marlin .30-06. I bought a mold last year, and another member here sent me some samples of a different size, but one thing after another got in the way, and I am just now getting around to loading up for this gun.

I have a 150 gr mold from Accurate, and a bunch of IMR 4895 powder from my jacketed days. I have read bunches of threads here and in other places where this powder is called everything from God's gift to rifles to the worst thing ever. In the current economy, finding a powder listed in my Lyman manual could be problematic, so I would like to use what I have if at all possible. How would I go about safely working up a load using the boolit and the powder I have? Do I start with a lower level than a similar jacketed boolit? Some threads I read talk about a max velocity of 1800 fps or thereabouts for cast, but then I see jacketed boolits being shoved out the barrel in excess of 3000 fps. Is there really that big a difference? My mold is a gas checked version so that may make a difference.

[HARRYMPOPE]

Sure,start with 30g and work up.I dont use a tuft of dacron over powder,but some have had good Luck with it.It might shoot great and you wont have to work up unless you want more speed.For me 45g was about as much as i could go and keep good accuracy.

George

[LittleBill]

Thanks for the response George. I have been reading the lead vs jacketed thread along with this, which has some interesting concepts to ponder.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

Have you tried castpics load data lookup
you can tailor the search

http://www.castpics.net/project2/CastDatalist.php?t=CastData&z_Cartridge=LIKE&x_Cartridge=30-06&v_Cartridge=AND&w_Cartridge=LIKE&y_Cartridge=&z_BulletWt=%3D&x_BulletWt=&z_Bullet=LIKE&x_Bullet=&v_Bullet=AND&w_Bullet=%3D&y_Bullet=&z_Powder=LIKE&x_Powder=IMR+4895&v_Powder=AND&w_Powder=%3D&y_Powder=&Submit=Search+%28*%29

[fredj338]

How about just getting a Lyman manual? Lots of lead bullet data there.

[LittleBill]

Jon, I found that one before, but thank you for adding the link.

Fred, I have the most recent Lyman manual and there is nothing in it for IMR 4895 and the boolit weight I am using.

I should probably add I was also looking for things like CUP, overall length, etc. I am still new to this stuff, and while my pistol loads are going fairly well, loads for the rifle are brand new.

[MtGun44]

More likely to have immediate success with 16gr of 2400 or 10 gr of Unique, producing about
1500-1700 fps - you can increase these a bit as needed to optimize groups. Since powder
costs about the same per pound, you will get almost twice the loads from a pound of 2400
and three times the number from a pound of Unique. Also, no need for the extra effort
of the Dacron.

Bill

[Bullshop Junior]

Once again I am frustrated by my inability to find information on load data. In some instances I just don't look in all the right places, and in others, there doesn't really seem to be any. Currently I am working on loads for my Marlin .30-06. I bought a mold last year, and another member here sent me some samples of a different size, but one thing after another got in the way, and I am just now getting around to loading up for this gun.

I have a 150 gr mold from Accurate, and a bunch of IMR 4895 powder from my jacketed days. I have read bunches of threads here and in other places where this powder is called everything from God's gift to rifles to the worst thing ever. In the current economy, finding a powder listed in my Lyman manual could be problematic, so I would like to use what I have if at all possible. How would I go about safely working up a load using the boolit and the powder I have? Do I start with a lower level than a similar jacketed boolit? Some threads I read talk about a max velocity of 1800 fps or thereabouts for cast, but then I see jacketed boolits being shoved out the barrel in excess of 3000 fps. Is there really that big a difference? My mold is a gas checked version so that may make a difference.

For the most part, I usually start with starting loads with same weight jacketed Data, and then work up or down as needed. Cast bullets create lower pressure then jackated so, ususally the same charge of powder with same weight bullets, the cast will be about 150-200 PS slower then jacketed.

[jonp]

For the most part, I usually start with starting loads with same weight jacketed Data, and then work up or down as needed. Cast bullets create lower pressure then jackated so, ususally the same charge of powder with same weight bullets, the cast will be about 150-200 PS slower then jacketed.
Does this hold for all calibers?

[SSGOldfart]

Does this hold for all calibers?
Most of the 30cal and under I'm not sure about the Mag crowd? I like'm a little on the slow side

[Tatume]

My first stop is the Hodgdon web site, and although I got fussed at for recommending it a few days ago, it is still my recommendation. If you want to use IMR 4895 in the 30-06 with 150 grain cast bullets, use 150 grain jacketed bullet data. Note that Hodgdon recommends reducing H4895 loads by as much as 60% of max for reduced loading. This makes it one of the most flexible powders there is for cast bullet use.

http://hodgdon.com/

[Kraschenbirn]

Richard Lee's 'Modern Reloading' (2nd Ed) provides extensive 30-06 load data for 150 gr. cast with H380, H414 (WW760), H335, H4895, Varget, and BLC-2 including pressures and (expected) velocities. Starting load for H4895/150 gr. is 25.0 (2190 fps) with max. given as 39.0 (2580 fps).

I don't use 4895 in my '06s but in .308 WCF, 31.5 gr under a 174 grainer (w/GC) produces 2160 fps and MOA groups (if I'm having a good day) from my 24" M700.

Bill

[sthwestvictoria]

I would second Tatume about looking at the Hodgdon 60% rule with H4895 (you would have to be happpy that IMR4895 is like H4895 - I don't have any experience in this).
I have used this for creating a cast bullet load for the 30-30 and the 35 whelen using H4895 (called AR2206H here in Australia). I don't use a filler and see some position sensitivity but just increase until this disappears and I am getting useful velocity and accuracy.

https://www.hodgdon.com/PDF/H4895%20Reduced%20Rifle%20Loads.pdf

[fredj338]

Jon, I found that one before, but thank you for adding the link.

Fred, I have the most recent Lyman manual and there is nothing in it for IMR 4895 and the boolit weight I am using.

I should probably add I was also looking for things like CUP, overall length, etc. I am still new to this stuff, and while my pistol loads are going fairly well, loads for the rifle are brand new.
It's always safe to use heavier bullet data for lighter bullets. Plenty of starting points in the Lyman.

[Tatume]

I would second Tatume about looking at the Hodgdon 60% rule with H4895 (you would have to be happpy that IMR4895 is like H4895 - I don't have any experience in this).

I have personal experience with IMR 4895 at these levels of reduction, so I am comfortable with them. However, documented sources are much preferred. Thank you for the correction.

[mdi]

How about just getting a Lyman manual? Lots of lead bullet data there.
Yep, the place to start looking for lead bullet load data is Lyman's Cast Bullet Handbook...

[LittleBill]

Thanks everyone for the continued responses. I will have to compare the charts in my Lyman 49 with my Lyman cast manual, and consider the advice here. I guess the worst that can happen with too light a load is a squib.



Yep, the place to start looking for lead bullet load data is Lyman's Cast Bullet Handbook...

I probably should have mentioned in my OP that I have Lyman's most recent editions of both their manuals, Lyman 49 and their cast bullet manual. I mostly read here, and only post when I can't find the info on my own. I am a noob and don't have a lot to offer in the way of advice when it comes to casting.

[LittleBill]

Richard Lee's 'Modern Reloading' (2nd Ed) provides extensive 30-06 load data for 150 gr. cast with H380, H414 (WW760), H335, H4895, Varget, and BLC-2 including pressures and (expected) velocities. Starting load for H4895/150 gr. is 25.0 (2190 fps) with max. given as 39.0 (2580 fps).

I don't use 4895 in my '06s but in .308 WCF, 31.5 gr under a 174 grainer (w/GC) produces 2160 fps and MOA groups (if I'm having a good day) from my 24" M700.

Bill

Thanks Bill. I will have to get me a copy of this. I've got two Lyman manuals and a Speer manual, but there is no such thing as too many books.

[MtGun44]

I agree with the general situation of starting with jbullet data and dropping back and
bring it up from "too low". Never have had any issues with this method, and the only powder
that I know that has issues is W296/H110 which is specifically not recommended for lighter
than the starting published charges.

Bill