Wax gas checks

[bandmiller2]

Have any of you fellas tried them, the sheet of wax you push over the open case mouth before you seat the boolet.?? I have a box of the sheets somewhere, if I remember they worked OK. seems to me they would work best in a case that has a long neck so their not dangling in the powder space. Frank C.

[7Acres]

Posting so I can follow the replies.

[mrbill2]

"I have a box of the sheets somewhere, if I remember they worked OK."

You need to find them! Give the wax checks a try and let us know how they work. Keep looking!!

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

I would think the Wax GC would turn to MOOSH under pressure ?

I'd love to read some research or "sales" literature about it.

[HARRYMPOPE]

I have made wax wads and used CF ventures soft checks as well with plainbase 30 caliber bullets.Neither helped for me a bunch but,they did improve a couple loads.My buddy swears by them in his 32-40.I really like "P"-Checks.They are cut from coffee can lids and really do improve accuracy much of the time on PB bullets.It helps to have a seater to get them started straight in the case neck though.I lost me seaters in a move and it is a pain to get them started in 22 particularly!!

[bangerjim]

I cannot imagine wax working for GC's. Carnuba, the hardest natural wax, melts at 187F. These sheets of wax you are talking about could be investment casting wax, which is make up of basically Carnuba. They are used in the jewelry making field. I have a bunch and cannot imagine those surviving the trip down a barrel without melting and allowing gasses to cut.

Are they some kind of man-made synthetic high temp "wax"?

You still cannot beat good old Cu GC's! That's all I use!

Inquiring minds want to know!

bangerjim

[Reg]

I think these wax sheets and wads you speak of are a hold over from the old Schutzen days and also used a lot in the 30's when experimenters were coming out with a lot of hot , high velocity rounds to prevent burning out the barrels. As I recall they were just a normal wax type bullet lube either pressed through a die to get the thin layers or as several did, melted on the top of calm hot water then a old time glass milk jug with ice in it is ran through the hot mix and a thin layer is deposited on the glass.
They all seemed to work protecting the barrel and improving the load. I think they are still used in a limited way by some of the Schutzen shooters.
They do require extra work.
Barrels are made of better steel now and powders are not as erosive so perhaps the need for them might no longer be.
They are spoken of in Phil Sharpe's Complete guide to Handloading , Sincerely Yours by Harvey Donaldson and other books talking of the old days.

PS

I think IPCO made these wads in thin sheets up into the 60's.

[Dusty Bannister]

Have any of you fellas tried them, the sheet of wax you push over the open case mouth before you seat the boolet.?? I have a box of the sheets somewhere, if I remember they worked OK. seems to me they would work best in a case that has a long neck so their not dangling in the powder space. Frank C.

http://www.caversham16.freeserve.co.uk/

Still in business.

[leadhead]

I remember using it in the late 60's or early 70's. Used for 44 magnum but I can't remember
if they worked that well or not. Kept the sheets in a cigar box. Mice chewed thru the box....
they loved it.
Denny

[Iowa Fox]

C F Ventures. I only use them in straight wall cases plain base bullets in certain applications. If you have a load/bullet combination that shoots very well they can help it. If you have a average load they won't help a thing. If I run out of it while I'm still able to shoot and think I want wads I'll use poly.

[FLHTC]

These came out in the early 70's and although they worked well at low velocities, they never caught on. Actually they were quite pliable and not hard at all. The sheets appeared around the time of the Wilk.

[OuchHot!]

I have used the cf ventures product. It was very helpful in some higher end .357 and 41mag loads where I did not have a conventional gc available. When cf ventures disappeared, I discovered that this is dental replica wax or something like that. I bought a wad from a dental supplies catalog. I will try to find the box as there were several hardness available. What I got was identical to cf ventures. I would not be surprised to find jewelry application as well. I still use it and for limited applications, find it helpful. It does take space in the case and you need to back off a couple of grains when adding the wax check.

[pete88]

I used the CF Ventures wax sheets around 1994 in my 45-70 with pb Lyman 330gr Gould HP
Improved accuracy with warmer loads and a boolit recovered from snow exhibited a clean base with no pitting or gas cutting so I think they did work to some degree and certainly didn't do any harm.
Now I'm back playing with another 45-70 I would love to find some wax sheets and continue my experiments :castmine:

[Krag1902]

I have used them in "fouler" shots in a clean bore before firing a string of CB loads for record. And I I have used them into hold the powder in the inverted case when using 308403 and the B&M 311168 bullets to be seated at the range. I have been told that they will eliminate leading, and I have seen some evidence ( and heard some reliable testimony) that this may be true. I don't believe they ever do any harm and have some usage. i think their potential benefits could stand a closer and more widespread examination.

[John Boy]

I cannot imagine wax working for GC's
Me either: metal GC's protect the bullet base from deforming that prevents gas leakage on ignition.
Wax wads just provide extra lubrication in the bore on ignition ... primarily used for BPCR reloads

[Ballistics in Scotland]

I would think the Wax GC would turn to MOOSH under pressure ?

I'd love to read some research or "sales" literature about it.

That doesn't matter as long as it is incompressible moosh, like most liquids. In fact if there are any gaps in the lands, getting seome wax squeezed into them can do only good. When the practice was in common use, in the 1870s, they used a tight-fitting card wad both before and after the wax. I think the one behind the bullet would be important to prevent inconsistent adhesion.

You don't need to find sheets of it, as what you get by melting wax on top of hot water, and letting it solidify is very satisfactory. Beeswax is good, or whatever sort of wax it is that they use to coat cheeses. I'd avoid carnauba, for it is liable to be crushed to powder by the first impact. I still have sheets of soft but high-temperature wax which I bought long ago from https://www.mcmaster.com/# , which is used for investment casting models etc. Mine is 1/16in. and 3/16inn. thick, and self-adhesive on one side. I've never used them for this or anything else - you know how it is - but they should be just about ideal.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

I would think the Wax GC would turn to MOOSH under pressure ?

I'd love to read some research or "sales" literature about it.


That doesn't matter as long as it is incompressible moosh, like most liquids. In fact if there are any gaps in the lands, getting seome wax squeezed into them can do only good. When the practice was in common use, in the 1870s, they used a tight-fitting card wad both before and after the wax. I think the one behind the bullet would be important to prevent inconsistent adhesion.

You don't need to find sheets of it, as what you get by melting wax on top of hot water, and letting it solidify is very satisfactory. Beeswax is good, or whatever sort of wax it is that they use to coat cheeses. I'd avoid carnauba, for it is liable to be crushed to powder by the first impact. I still have sheets of soft but high-temperature wax which I bought long ago from https://www.mcmaster.com/# , which is used for investment casting models etc. Mine is 1/16in. and 3/16inn. thick, and self-adhesive on one side. I've never used them for this or anything else - you know how it is - but they should be just about ideal.

LOL, I was just a kid back when I posted that comment, LOL.

[curator]

I have used CF Ventures "wax-checks" in straight wall cases with 'warmish" loads to good effect. Where copper or aluminum checks are not available with plain-base boolits they improve accuracy somewhat and often prevent leading. They make a big difference in Unique loads for the .310 Cadet round. It is important that the wax check not adhere to the base of the boolit for best results. A thin paper wad between boolit base and wax wad is all it takes to eliminate the fliers caused by wax clinging to a fired boolit.

[pete88]

Thank you Curator, good info there about the thin paper between the wax wad.
Gonna be like Madame Tussauds wax works here soon:guntootsmiley:

[Ballistics in Scotland]

I have used CF Ventures "wax-checks" in straight wall cases with 'warmish" loads to good effect. Where copper or aluminum checks are not available with plain-base boolits they improve accuracy somewhat and often prevent leading. They make a big difference in Unique loads for the .310 Cadet round. It is important that the wax check not adhere to the base of the boolit for best results. A thin paper wad between boolit base and wax wad is all it takes to eliminate the fliers caused by wax clinging to a fired boolit.

Ah, good! It was just my guesswork about that particular problem, and it is good to see someone has actually experienced it. I used the extremely hard card, with a coloured surface layer, which is used to cut bevelled-edge matts for framing pictures. Any picture framer who uses only the edges is likely to have a scrapheap of middles.

I gather some .310 Cadets need a heel bullet and some don't. There might be some trouble with bullets which have a reduced enough heel for wax and bits of card to get irregularly forced between bullet heel and bore.

[curator]

Ah, good! It was just my guesswork about that particular problem, and it is good to see someone has actually experienced it. I used the extremely hard card, with a coloured surface layer, which is used to cut bevelled-edge matts for framing pictures. Any picture framer who uses only the edges is likely to have a scrapheap of middles.

I gather some .310 Cadets need a heel bullet and some don't. There might be some trouble with bullets which have a reduced enough heel for wax and bits of card to get irregularly forced between bullet heel and bore.

I only have two Cadets, One "converted" to .32-20 WCF and one original, and both shoot more accurately with the addition of the wax-check. Recovering fired slugs revealed the wax adhering to the bullet base so I began inserting a typing paper wad to prevent this. (My 3-ring binder hole punch supplies them in abundance) I am casting of AC/COWW + 2% tin with a 320/120 CBE mould and lubing with LLA. The heeled portion appears to be fully expanded into the rifling with zero evidence of gas leakage when the wax checks are used. This is not the case without them.

[Ballistics in Scotland]

Now that expansion of the heel is interesting, and a good argument for their use. I'd feel more confident of its always working the same way if there was stout card before and after the wax, and if not, I can't see it doing any harm.