Lyman/Ideal 311413 Mold

[sfcairborne]

Ok, I know this mold is not a great performer, but has anybody milled out the gas check walls to make it a straight up flat base? if so what were your results. Ive been thinking about doing this with the mold I have. This is just a learning to cast mold and a plinker round for one of my 308's.

Thanks.

[Ben]

I have removed the gas check shank on .30 cal. molds before with a 5/16", ( .3125 " dia ) drill bit ( I know before you say it ...the likelihood of success is poor ). Catch is, I've done it successfully many times using my drill press.

I've been shooting the Modern Bond 190 gr. plain base spire point that I bought from George recently. It is shooting great. Here is a link to that post :

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=167567

I had several 311413 molds and decided to plain base this one today.
As many of you are aware " hot roding " the 311413 much past 1,600 - 1,700 fps usually won't pay very good dividends.

So, I decided that since it was impt. to slow things down with the 413', I might as well save on a g/c and the time to install the check.

I decided to plain base this one and shoot it at 1,000 - 1,200 fps. Hopefully, I'll have some inexpensive, fun , accurate shooting out of some of my .30 cal. rifle ?

I'm anxious to try it out.

Ben

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/haysb/004-35.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/haysb/010-20.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/haysb/012-17.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/haysb/014-13.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/haysb/013-22.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/haysb/019-8.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/haysb/020-4.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/haysb/021-4.jpg

About 10 days later after the above photos were taken, I had time to go to the range and test the plain base 311413's. I'M HAPPY ! ! !

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/haysb/Photo0767.jpg

[Char-Gar]

Ok, I know this mold is not a great performer, but has anybody milled out the gas check walls to make it a straight up flat base? if so what were your results. Ive been thinking about doing this with the mold I have. This is just a learning to cast mold and a plinker round for one of my 308's.

Thanks.

This is the Lyman version justly famous Squibb bullet designed by a guy by that name in Lima Ohio. Just after WWII Lyman, Belding and Mull, Cramer and Hensley and Gibbs all made versions of this bullet. To say that this mold is not a great performer is not an accurate statement. It does not perform well over about 1.4K fps, but under that it can be a tack driver.

I have versions of this bullet by all of the above makers. I have one single cavity Belding and Mull that is plain based. Belding never sold such and I don't know if this is a special order or somebody removed the gas check shank as per your post, but it is plain based.

Give the Squibb's love of being shot at slow velocity, the absence of the gas should not be an issue. Shot at 1,00 to 1,200 fps, this bullet is a burner. Somewhere between 7 and 9 grains of Bulleye should be the ticket.

[madsenshooter]

I've a notion to do this to my 311169. Someone already messed with it a little bit to remove some of the taper from the check shank. That makes the gascheck fit tight if it casts the base nice and square. Interesting formula for PB bullets Belding & Mull recommends in their 1949 edition, 85 Pb, 7.5Sn, 7.5Sb. Not far from being a lead based babbitt.

[sfcairborne]

Awesome guys thank you, I knew it was no speed demon and to keep it mildly mild, so this is what I was looking for thank you. Time to go have some fun.

[John Boy]

Lyman/Ideal 311413 Mold
Ok, I know this mold is not a great performer
That statement is farthest from the truth!
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?168244-30-30-Maximum-Distance-With-Accuracy&p=1884028&viewfull=1#post1884028

Each year at Ridgway R&PC, we hold a lever action 'Jubilee'. One of the events is a 200-500 meter 40 shot silhouette event. This was my Go To bullet. Last year out of 21 shooters - placed 4th with iron sights after finding out in 2012 - It Shoots!

[sfcairborne]

I wasn't trying to offend anyone on the performance of this bullet, I'm going off of what I read, about it, and that was why I asked the question. This little pill, looks like she should shoot really well, that was all. And I will read you tagged post as well.

[94Doug]

I think that's awesome to see that in the Ideal days, an undersize mould, "U" designation still puts out a .311 + size slug.

Doug

[beagle]

I have several 311413s including a HP and have found that it shoots rather well in my Number 1 .30/06. In fact right up there with my "best" bullet, the RCBS 30-180-SP.

I believe that the 311413 got its bad days back in the DCM days when guys were attempting to achieve jacketed velocities in 1903s with military velocity loads under full charges of DCM 4895.

Like any cast bullet, it will not take that kind of velocity with accuracy. I have had no problems in the 1700-1800 FPS velocity range./beagle

[Char-Gar]

I have several 311413s including a HP and have found that it shoots rather well in my Number 1 .30/06. In fact right up there with my "best" bullet, the RCBS 30-180-SP.

I believe that the 311413 got its bad days back in the DCM days when guys were attempting to achieve jacketed velocities in 1903s with military velocity loads under full charges of DCM 4895.

Like any cast bullet, it will not take that kind of velocity with accuracy. I have had no problems in the 1700-1800 FPS velocity range./beagle

When the DCM started welling 03A3s about 1961 we all bought them. A fellow published an article in one of the gun rags about using 311413 in his over 30/Ball-C (the original). That pushed me into buying the mold and gave that load a try, having lots of Bl-C around at that time. It did OK, but never like his targets as shown in the magazine. This was a full 15 grains under the normal charge for jacketed bullets. The powder didn't burn well at that loading. I always wonder if he shot his targets at 25 yards.

A 30-06 round loaded with 311413 looks much like a round of M2 ball, so it should shoot the same with the same charges of powder, right? :-)

[Char-Gar]

I think that's awesome to see that in the Ideal days, an undersize mould, "U" designation still puts out a .311 + size slug.

Doug

I have a mid-60's vintage double cavity U311467 that casts .309 from linotype, and .310 from #2 and .3105 from ACWW.

[725]

Ben,
Once again, you have the touch!! Well done.

[HARRYMPOPE]

I have had numerous ones and if kept to about 1600 it does fine but It wont win bench rest matches.It is a decent bullets,but there are better ones out there.

[BruceB]

My personal 311413 is an ancient "Ideal" 4-cavity job, which shows deep pitting in a couple places on the OUTside.

One of the cavities also shows a shallow pitted area of less than 1/4" on its ogive. Comparative testing has not demonstrated any bad effects from the minor pitted area.

An earlier owner has beveled the block AND cavity edges quite radically, so that the bullets show very prominent "parting lines" where the blocks meet. The bevel was so pronounced at the top of the mould that it formed "horns" on the gascheck shank which prevented the seating of the checks.

I had Buckshot shave the tops of the blocks to eliminate the bevel, and in spite of the remaining edges being heavily beveled the mould now casts usable bullets. The gascheck shank is so long in this design, that losing a bit of the shank in the trimming did no harm.

These bullets showed some "flashes of accuracy" in my M1A load development, but I didn't do much follow-up. There are better designs out there, for sure. This one dates 'WAY back to the early years.....my copy was likely made in the '30s!

One nice thing.... the bullets drop at .314+" and thus may be used in many assorted cartridges.

[HARRYMPOPE]

Ideal didn't make 4 cavity blocks in the 1930's.
The 311375 is kind of an improved 311413 with a better nose(fuller,more bearing) and a very good one.

[BruceB]

So, Harry....

When DID Ideal start with the 4-cavity moulds?

At least on the outside, this one looks like it could be a survivor of the Titanic sinking(1912)!

It's hard to understand how some people can so mistreat precision objects like bullet moulds.... but they surely do.

[frnkeore]

This is also a favorite bullet of mine and have the Ideal/Lyman molds in ES(this one casts .306 in 20/1 alloy), S, U and standard size. The standard can cast anywhere from .311 to .315. I also have H&G's version with extra band on the nose as well as a B&M's version.

This is my version of a PB 311413. I made the base band .100 long x .316 dia. to have as deep a greese groove as I could get on the tapered shank.

I use this for my 8.15x46R Schuetzen rifle because it does cast so large. The groove on my rifle is .316 and I shoot it breech seated. The following is a picture of my bullet and the load development I did for the rifle at 100 yards.

103370103370
103371

[HARRYMPOPE]

So, Harry....

When DID Ideal start with the 4-cavity moulds?

At least on the outside, this one looks like it could be a survivor of the Titanic sinking(1912)!

It's hard to understand how some people can so mistreat precision objects like bullet moulds.... but they surely do.

Not sure of exact year or month but the early 50's i believe.The gang molds from the earlier era were the Armory Molds.I have a couple that date from that period.I can call my Buddy who is the secretary of the Antique Relading tool Collector Association and get the exacts if you want me to.

[HARRYMPOPE]

its a better plainbase bullet at low velocity than it ever was as a higher velocity GC for Sure.Nice shooting Frank.

[BruceB]

.I can call my Buddy who is the secretary of the Antique Reloading tool Collector Association and get the exacts if you want me to.

No, don't bother him. Your comment narrows it down enough for my simple-minded curiosity.

I've seen the "armory" moulds, and they are impressive. Quite a handful to cast with, too, I'll bet.

Thanks!

[frnkeore]

103381
its a better plainbase bullet at low velocity than it ever was as a higher velocity GC for Sure.Nice shooting Frank.

Thank you, George. I'm quite proud of the rifle they came out of, too. I will be shooting it in the CF, OH matches at Spokane next month.

The groups were shot with a scope, not the aperiture sight, as pictured.

[HARRYMPOPE]

Bruce they either work or they dont.I have had four or five and my 308241 is the only one i have been able to make good bullets consistently.The long blocks warp and have generally been abused fro far too many years.The front bolt fitting it part of the molds alignment system and its also gets worn.

[HARRYMPOPE]

103381

Thank you, George. I'm quite proud of the rifle they came out of, too. I will be shooting it in the CF, OH matches at Spokane next month.

The groups were shot with a scope, not the aperiture sight, as pictured.

Maybe ill come up there if i have time.is it Tommy's match?

[frnkeore]

Yes, it is. I'll be there from the 9th of May until the 19th. It would be great to meet you, if you can make it.

I can send you directions if you need them.

Frank

[HARRYMPOPE]

Yes, it is. I'll be there from the 9th of May until the 19th. It would be great to meet you, if you can make it.

I can send you directions if you need them.

Frank


Darn,Ill be in Burns shooting rats that time period.If the wife lets me free for another shooting weekend maybe i'll come up.I have shot with those guys at Spokane Gun Club CBA matches but never been to Tommy's.I'd like to see his place.