Done with lyman for 458 black powder moulds need alternative

[Buckshot Bowman]

Hello Lads,

After fighting to get decent bullets from Lymans 457125 and the 458 postell 457132 I need a replacement for these two bullets , No matter how much I wash, clean, boil, clean my alloy, weigh it precisely lead to tin,use every temperature up and down the scale. Every bullet has pitted noses and small pits on some of the bands. The noses look like there is baking soda in the mold, and stick in the mold, but the molds look clean and shiny My other bullets come out nice with 1-20 alloy but not these two molds. Bought them used on Ebay, and I don't want to buy new Lymans and go through the fight of undersize bullets, as I need .459 bullets.

Any mold makers that have bullets like these designs or better for Sharps black powder cartridge rifles? I would like to hear of anyone that uses these big style of big bullets for long range targets.

Thanks

Buckshot
Donald Bowman

[enfieldphile]

As you state you don't want to mess with the Lyman molds, look at Accurate. Tom has many designs, or you can design your own.

Saeco has a couple of killer designs also.

If you want, run a tap into a boolit from your Lyman mold. Then put fine valve grinding compound in the cavities and spin the boolit. It may get under the material causing problems

[Maven]

"If you want, run a tap into a boolit from your Lyman mold, then put fine valve grinding compound in the cavities and spin the boolit. It may get under the material causing problems." ...enfieldphile

Exactly what I was going to recommend, Don.

[Ben]

Maybe this will help :

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?47669-More-quot-Lee-Lementing-quot

['74 sharps]

"If you want, run a tap into a boolit from your Lyman mold, then put fine valve grinding compound in the cavities and spin the boolit. It may get under the material causing problems." ...enfieldphile

Exactly what I was going to recommend, Don.

+1 Should take care of the issues and produce fine bullets.

[Buckshot Bowman]

Thanks for the replies,
I take you mean to drill and tap the bullet? if so what size threads are we talking about here for a .458 bullet and what are we using for a cap screw? It occurs to me you would need a rather coarse thread so you don't just strip out the lead when you start pressing on the mold halves.

I have read a number of posts on this procedure on Lee molds, but how does this work out for the iron molds that Lyman are made of? seem like it is going to take a lot of tapped bullets to get down through whatever is causing this pitting and smooth it out.

Thanks,

Buckshot

[longbow]

A little lapping may work but even before that I will recommend trying a pre-heat that makes sprue plate lube smoke then start casting.

I seldom ever even do more than wiping a mould with a paper towel or rag before casting and seldom have problems. What I do is to put a drop of sprue plate lube on top of the mould, smear it around to cover the top of the mould and sprue plate (it doesn't take much) a light wipe on the pins then pre-heat until the sprue plate lube just starts to smoke. usually the mould is a bit too hot at that point and the sprue puddle takes a few seconds to harden so casting starts a bit slow but fillout is good and after a few boolits mould temperature has dropped a bit then good to go.

It works for me anyway.

Longbow

[nhrifle]

I paper patch slick sided boolits for my Sharps and seat them over a case of compressed black powder. The boolits are from a mould I cut myself. Before I paper patched, I shot the Lee 457-405 as a greaser and was pleased with the results. Take a look at Buffalo Arms, many choices there, good quality, and great people to deal with.

[Buckshot Bowman]

Lads,
here are a few photos to show what I am dealing with.
All the bullets were cast from the same melt on the same day. All are .458 Lyman bullets, and the 405 grain and the 300 grain looks pretty good for a new caster, but the 458125's have this pitted surface on the nose and ragged mold line with some piting.

The molds look clean under a magnifying glass, but almost all come out like this whether they are bottom poured or ladle poured.
I would like to give the polishing a try before I sell them off and try another mold maker.

Buckshot Bowman

Donald

[Buckshot Bowman]

Thanks for the reply, but these are iron molds, and I pre heat my molds on a hot plate and hit the sprue plate with a propane torch to get it hot before starting Since they are iron I don't think plate lube is necessary, but I have wiped the plate with Kroil and it changes nothing on this problem.

DB

[nhrifle]

Judging by the pictures, I would try cleaning again, and do it the easy way like I do with problem moulds -- give the blocks and sprue plate an overnight soak in acetone or naptha, and be sure to remove all screws so all the parts get an even bath and no surface is left unclean. In the morning, pull the parts out of the solvent, give them a vigorous shake, and then a quick rinse in some fresh solvent. Allow to air dry.

[beagle]

Yeah, think I'd give 'em a good cleaning again before I give up.

Several are showing the classic signs of overheating as well (rounded bands).

From my experiences, big Lyman .45 moulds such as you are using go through three stages when you're casting...well, actually four.

There is the shiny, well filled out phase where the mould is not hot enough.

Then, you turn out a few nice bullets.

Then, the bands start rounding.

Then, the next step is frosty bullets with rounded, unfilled bands.

Nothing is wrong with the mould if it is clean and your lead is well fluxed and clean.

You may be attempting to cast too fast.

Lyman blocks for these mould numbers have been made over the years in small, dinky blocks. The size and volume does not allow the heat from a properly heated mould to dissipate fast enough and you get rounded bands. Slowing the casting temp works wonders sometimes. I have to sit there and count sometimes to space out my castings to keep mould temps down and well fill out.

RCBS moulds are not as bad as they use bigger blocks.

Even DC Lyman pistol moulds sometimes show this problem if you're fast casting numbers such as the 429421.

I have also used a small cooling fan such as used in computers for cooling to cool the blocks between casts or another method is to touch the hot mould bottom to a damp cloth.

We once successfully added aluminum heat sinks to the handle attaching screws and this worked as well but the bulk of the sinks made casting difficult.

There is a formula for computing the size of the blocks allowable for a specific number of cavities that will cast good based on the volume of lead being poured in the cavities. Walt Melander at NEI used it when you were ordering different moulds and if he said it wouldn't cast, it wouldn't. But, he probably took it to the grave with him when he passed. Too bad. Maybe someone has it but I don't. Anyway, good luck./beagle

[Tom Myers]

Donald,

If you are casting using the bottom pour method, this seems to be a common occurrence for the big heavy bullets. The more volume a cavity has, the worse the problem. I have been fighting this problem for years and have never been able to make it completely go away. Once I pick up the R.C.B.S. ladle and start filling the molds with it, the problem goes away and beautiful, unblemished bullets start falling from the mold.

You will need to work out your own technique for filling the mold with a ladle, but when you get it right, you will be amazed at the difference a ladle makes in the appearance and consistency of the castings from large volume cavities.

Hope this helps.