Patching primer?

[pbbutz]

Not new to casting, just to P patching. Is there a do's and don't primer on patching? Thanks to all,
Bruce

[EDK]

LOADING AND SHOOTING PAPER PATCHED BULLETS A BEGINNER'S GUIDE by Randolph S. Wright is great...and readily available. Profusely illustrate; a basic but not boring level. At Buffalo Arms or Shiloh Sharps. THIS IS THE BOOK!

Orville Loomer's booklet available at Shiloh Sharps is very good.

Paul Matthews' THE PAPER JACKET is considered a classic, but out of print.

Mike Venturino does a good explanation in SHOOTING BUFFALO RIFLES OF THE OLD WEST. It's a good place to start.

Go over to Shiloh's web site or go2gbo for additional paper patch forums. There is a lot of interest in the past couple of years and additional information is readily available to keep you from "having to re-invent the wheel." I'm still looking for more input on what diameter to order for my 2005 50/90 Shiloh Sharps; there are a lot of differing opinions to consider.

:castmine: :redneck:

[Jon K]

EDK,

Lots of different opinions, so true- so true. The 2 schools of thought patch to bore or patch to groove diameter.

Either get samples of each and try before you buy a mould, or pick one and theory you like best and try it. I am patching to bore and it looks like a winner to me, in my 45 - 2.4" . 441 BACO mould. I think Boolit design and chamber design have a lot to do with what works, but what do I know, I'm new to this PP business, it's only my opinion. I did read and watch what was going on over at the Shiloh Forum and here before I took the leap.

Just like Ford & Chevy, it's your pick.

Have Fun Shooting,
Jon

[Baron von Trollwhack]

Check out the Shiloh forum on black powder. Literally hundreds of posts from guys at the shooting edge. BvT

[Digital Dan]

Jon, sometimes the opinions are driven by application. Smokeless and BP methodology can differ a fair bit and within the realm of BP it largely depends on what you're doing as well. An example coming to mind at the moment is target vs hunting. With the former it is common to use tight dimensions as many will wipe between shots when using PP. Hunting gets a looser dim to facilitate follow up shots. A crude rule of thumb from what I've seen, for accuracy go bore with lead and patch to groove and that works for smokeless across the range of it. BP hunters may want a looser fit. Lots of variables there so experimentation is the name of the game I think.

PS: I never met a patched bullet I didn't like.

[pdawg_shooter]

After five years of trying I have finally found THE load for my Marlin 1895g. Does everything I want done and is still shootable. I started with new Remington brass, annealed the first ¾ inch using the melted lead method, belled with a Lee expander and primed with CCI 200. The powder charge is 52gr AA 2495. I started with 48 and worked up with no signs of pressure. This is a compressed load, even using a 16 inch drop tube. The magic bullet is cast in a Lyman 451114 mould. The alloy is 17 parts pure lead, 2 ½ parts linotype, and ½ part tin. The bullet drops from the mould .451, 430gr and is ready for patching. I make my patches from 16lb green bar computer paper, cut 2.750 long on a 60* angle 1.500 high. I dip in water and wrap twice around the bullet. They are left to dry overnight, then lubed with BAC. Then the tails are clipped and the bullet is run through a .459 Lee sizing die. I seat them to an OCL of 2.580. These shoot clover leaf groups at 25 yards and into 1.75 at 100. This is with a Lyman 66 rear sight and factory front sight. Not bad for 55 year old eyes. Bullet performance on game is all one could ask for. I’ll not quit experimenting, but how does one improve on perfection?

[Digital Dan]

PDAWG, I've a friend that shoots a Marlin 1895 CB in that chambering with PP bullets from Montana Precision Swaging. I don't recall the diameter on them but they weigh 510 grains with a cupped base. Over 31 grains (+/-) of RX7 and a patch technique not unlike yours save for 9#'ish onion skin he is running around 1600 fps and MOA with a vernier sight or glass, being undecided as he is sometimes. My recollection, vague as it is at the moment, about .450" on the diameter but Russ at MPS can set that straight. I think those bullets have a wee bit of tin in the alloy but not much. Probably my friend can up the velocity closer to 1800 within the load data I've seen for that bullet weight and gun but he has plenty awareness on the butt end that the load is sufficient for thin skinned game like Peterbilts and Kenworth Sleepers. He never was Army tough. The lube de jour is 50/50 Vaseline and Beeswax by the way. Could be his load is closer to purrfection, I dunno.

[Digital Dan]

Upon some reflection and benefit of 20/20 hindsight, I should add that he uses a taper crimp, mild.

[EDK]

The only commercial paper patch boolits for my BIG 50 start at about .503 before patching..IIRC. CAS (aka cylindersmith) over at Shiloh is using a .500 before patched boolit and looking better than good....with barrel sights only! It's one of Red River Rick Kalynuik's moulds and I like his options.

Dean aka Powderburner sent me a copy of the factory drawing. I know the factory stuff was just under bore diamter patched, but the guys are getting good results with the larger stuff. Orville Loomer has helped fuel my confusion as well as Randolph Wright and Paul Matthews.

So here I are...up in the air and not knowing what to do. Thankfully I got tempted by an Original Size Vaquero after getting some unexpected money....good excuse to scratch my.. er...nose a little longer. Plus the new moulds for the 44s to play with in my pistols and 1894 Marlins.

Oh well. Which is worse? Knowing what you want and not having the money to do it OR not knowing what you want to do and having the money to do it. :holysheep

There's a bunch of guys shooting paper patch at the Quigley shoot and looking pretty good. Just don't be next to Bobw and his 50/140! That cannon removes all the dust and grass from his place on the firing line. But he's one h--- of a shot and has his sight settings and tables down to a fine art.

:cbpour: :redneck:

[kawalekm]

Oh what an annoying title! I was imagining some guy wrapping paper around a primer before pressing into the primer hole. Maybe to make a berdan case fit. How dumb!
Michael

[Ricochet]

Actually, that's been done and shown to work well. The pressure inside the primer cup squeezes the paper against the primer pocket walls and makes a nice seal if it's tight to start with. No different from running an engine with a paper head gasket.

[Digital Dan]

Or a two stoke case with a dental floss seal...Don't know that I'd go to the trouble for a primer but my first read of the thread made me think the same thing. Some peeps put a piece of tissue paper in the bottom of the case before dropping the charge in BP cartridges. Dunno if they use Charmin or not though.....

[Baron von Trollwhack]

Actually this peep puts a punched disc of fishwrap from the editorial page betwixt the primer and the 2ffg. The 1/4 square of charmin is reserved for the space betwixt the smokeless and the base of the bullito grande in the .45-60. BvT

[Jon K]

Doing the same as Baron, but I've been using the coupon section, thought it is supposed to be "more bang for the buck". What's a peep?

Jon

[Digital Dan]

Peeps be People...

[Baron von Trollwhack]

Utterly worthless, liberal, tree-hugging, pro-not normal, anti-hunting, peta praising, tax & spend, socialist medicine touting, illegal alien advocating, tattoo promoting, baby killing, welfare loving, democrat editorial page. Makes fun of avant garde tinfoil hat seers too. Not even good for emergency TP: paper too slick and greasy from ink. Burns well in hellfire-like fire between primer and BP though. BvT

[wonderwolf]

Wait....I'm confused...are people putting a layer of TP down in the bottom of the case before they put the BP in or is this a duplex thing?