Hunting With The 45 LC

[TX BOOMER]

I put this on under cast bullets , but it should be here I think. The guys have been a great help but I am still uncertain about a few things. Style of bullet for whitetail in the 260 to 325 gr range , which molds to cast these bullets ,and maybe fps to shoot them at. Shooting them out of a BFR w/ a 7 1/2 " barrel . I know these are old question to most of you and I have looked at some old threads ,but anything you would like to add am all ears. Thanks in advance .:Fire:

[9.3X62AL]

My current 45 Colt is a Ruger Bisley Blackhawk x 7.5". I have used mostly 250-260 grain bullets, the Lyman #454424 Keith, #454190 round nose/small meplat classic design, and the #454490 Thompson SWC-GC. The first two I run between 850-1000 FPS, the latter gets to 1200 FPS easily. All are accurate, more so than I am for certain.

I also have the Lee 310 grain WFN plagiarizer, and it isn't accurate until pushed past 1000 FPS. Such loads are very useful in the game fields, but the SWC's and the old school RN are better all-around projectiles, accurate from 700-1200 FPS. That Thompson SWC at 1300 FPS would be my choice in this revolver for hunting deer. If elk were on the menu, I would find a load for the Lee 310 that ran it at 1200 FPS+ with accuracy.

[Dr. A]

I just made my first handgun kill with my BFR ( deer wise), and used a Keith 300gr. RCBS hollow pointed. It shoots that very well along with just about anything I've tried. I use mainly 45 Colt brass, occasionally switching to 454, and use the RCBS 270 SAA for my plinking loads. I can get this up to 1500fps with little leading, and going more than fast enough for my tastes.

I can tell you that RCBS hollowpointed was about 1/2 lead 1/2 ww, and truely cored out that poor doe.:-D

Using this set-up with a scope was akin to using a carbine. I'll have to take the scope off next time :roll::???::-D

Lee 300gr. work fine as well. Shoot them anywhere from 900fps to 1400fps. I prefer the 1150fps range with the 270gr. Very balanced in a BFR, and its like you're shooting a 38. The BFR barely hickup's on the stout loads, and seems to handle stouter loads than even my SRH. I have used the GOuld hollowpoint and gotten it up to 1500fps with my Casull brass. All seem to work just fine. I've heard of poor accuracy with below the 900fps mark. I have not gone down that low.

[Char-Gar]

Any cast SWC bullet 40 cal or larger, with a weight of 200 grains or higher, going 900 fps or faster, will kill a Texas Whitetail deer like the hammer of Thor. Providing of course you put it in the right place...always in the right place.

The RCBS 270 SAA (weighting 280 grains) going 1,000 fps makes a great Texas deer load in the 45 Colt round. I like a charge of 20/H4227 to do this, but other powders work just as well.

[TX BOOMER]

Thanks for the info guy's , I will take a look at these molds. Hey not to be the biggest dummy on the block what is a truncated bullet ,is just a differant swc or what ? I have only loaded for my rifles and 45acp , 9mm , 38/357 and have loaded no cast bullets for nothing but my 45acp. And I bought those. :Fire:

[shooting on a shoestring]

In .45 Colt for my 7.5" Blackhawk, I currently have loaded on the shelf, 454424 250 gr at 1100 fps, 454190 at about 1000, 452490 GC at 1250, Lee 300 WFN w/o the GC installed at 1250, and the Group Buy Lee Keith SWC 310 at 1250. With the exception of the Group Buy Keith SWC 310 (still working on loads), the others will give me 2 to 2.5" at 25 yards.

I don't plan on shooting deer, I prefer beef. When's cow season?

[shotstring]

I like 255 fprn plain base boolits at about 900 fps. To go over 1200 fps is REALLY pusing it and not recommended. Even going over 1000 fps unless the gun is a Ruger or a TC or similar strong action wouldn't be recommended. Even if your gun will handle it, the cylinder will become loose in short order with such stiff loads. The problem is the 45LC case, not the gun. It isn't meant to handle the pressures of a 44 mag so in coming close a person can really be taking a chance.

[shooting on a shoestring]

Shotstring, I don't agree. The .45 Colt case and the .44 Magnum case have the same wall thickness. The only "weak" .45 Colt cases were the balloon head type that came out in 1873 for black powder. By the thirties or so, the balloon heads were dead and solid webs like all the other cases were used.

There is a difference in cylinder wall or chamber wall thickness. For example in the Ruger Blackhawk, the .44 Magnum and .45 Colt have the same cylinder outside diameter, but the .45 Colt has bigger chambers, hence less thickness between chambers. So one should load the .45 Colt to less pressure than the .44 Magnum. However, since the boolit in the .45 Colt is larger, has more boolit base area to be pushed against, 30,000 psi in .45 Colt does roughly the same amount of work as 35,000 psi in the .429 Magnum (44 Mag for those who believe in marketing). Or put this way, the .45 Colt can get 300 grs to 1300 fps with about 30,000 psi and the .429 Magnum can get 300 gr to 1300, but needs 35,000 psi to do it.

And by the way pushing the top end continuously in any gun will pay dividends to your gun dealer not to you. Therefore, I run my machinery (guns, boats, mowers or whatever) at a cruising speed of about 80% of max. Its part of my religion.

[freedom475]

http://www.customsixguns.com/writings/heavyweight_bullets.htm


This site is a great place to look around . There is a lot of very valuble info. This info is well put together from actual testing not just trial and error. Click on writings and you will get a list of great reads on the 45colt, much of it directed at hunting with and loading one.

Hope this helps.......I think your BFR is as strong or stronger than a Ruger so the data listed here should be helpful.

[Lloyd Smale]

i dont agree either. Like he said the days of week 45 brass died with my grandfather. 45 colt starline brass is some of the best handgun brass made period. A LARGER FRAMED OLDER BLACKHAWK OR VAQUERO is idleing with 300s at 1200 fps. Its when you tack on another 300 fps that you will start seeing pemature gun wear. But the brass will hold up fine.
I like 255 fprn plain base boolits at about 900 fps. To go over 1200 fps is REALLY pusing it and not recommended. Even going over 1000 fps unless the gun is a Ruger or a TC or similar strong action wouldn't be recommended. Even if your gun will handle it, the cylinder will become loose in short order with such stiff loads. The problem is the 45LC case, not the gun. It isn't meant to handle the pressures of a 44 mag so in coming close a person can really be taking a chance.

[shotstring]

Shotstring, I don't agree. The .45 Colt case and the .44 Magnum case have the same wall thickness. The only "weak" .45 Colt cases were the balloon head type that came out in 1873 for black powder. By the thirties or so, the balloon heads were dead and solid webs like all the other cases were used.

There is a difference in cylinder wall or chamber wall thickness. For example in the Ruger Blackhawk, the .44 Magnum and .45 Colt have the same cylinder outside diameter, but the .45 Colt has bigger chambers, hence less thickness between chambers. So one should load the .45 Colt to less pressure than the .44 Magnum. However, since the boolit in the .45 Colt is larger, has more boolit base area to be pushed against, 30,000 psi in .45 Colt does roughly the same amount of work as 35,000 psi in the .429 Magnum (44 Mag for those who believe in marketing). Or put this way, the .45 Colt can get 300 grs to 1300 fps with about 30,000 psi and the .429 Magnum can get 300 gr to 1300, but needs 35,000 psi to do it.

And by the way pushing the top end continuously in any gun will pay dividends to your gun dealer not to you. Therefore, I run my machinery (guns, boats, mowers or whatever) at a cruising speed of about 80% of max. Its part of my religion.

I am certainly willing to stand corrected if that is the case, but in spite of several articles and several forums that claim the 45LC will operate at magnum velocities and pressures, I respectfully disagree. I can't find the modern article that brought up some interesting information regarding modern Long Cold cases (problem with having 2,000 links in my shooting section :roll:) but I did go out to the garage just now and re-measure the case wall thickness of Remington Peters 44 mag and Winchester 45 Long Colt cases, and the 44 mag case was 15 percent thicker than the 45 Long Colt case. Now granted, I may have lost my mind and forgot how to measure with my micrometer, but aside from that this seems to be pretty strong evidence that they are not the same.

Also, if you take into consideration that many (if not most) of the 45 long colt guns being made these days are not as strong as the Ruger revolvers. I have seen Italian replicas with not than many rounds fired spitting lead all over the place from excessive gap and cylinder alignment issues, and my own 3rd generation Colts have loosened up supstantially with only a moderate dose of medium stiff loads. But the Ruger (with the exception of the the new Vaquero) and Freedom Arms guns are veritable "tanks" and I would think any gun built as strong as those two would handle some mighty powerful LC loadings. I just personally don't want to find out what it takes to blow one of them up.

[Lloyd Smale]

you could probably grab two differnt brands of cases and get just the opposite results. Brass varys alot between manufactures and even lot to lot with the same manufacture. If you want a real eye opener check case capasitys between differnt brands of 308 or 223 brass or another one that really varys a mile is 500 linebaugh brass. The problem that was allways stated with the 45 colt brass was the old unsupported headed (baloon headed) brass and collectors even have problem finding expamples of that stuff anymore. I load tons of 44 and 45 ammo and dont see a bit a differnce in case life with either running the same pressures. Ive also yet to see a large framed ruger blow up with ruger level loads out of a loading manual. What blows them up are idiots that think they know more then the loading manual and you can blow up any sixgun if your an idiot like that.

[44man]

See here Lloyd, I agree with you 100% AGAIN! :mrgreen:
WW makes thin brass in just about everything. It is not dangerous but is thinner. You can't compare apples to oranges, you need the same brand before measuring.

[dubber123]

I have 2 Smith Mountain Guns, 1 in .44 Magnum, and one in .45 Colt. Both of mine max out within 15 fps. of each other with similar boolit weights, basically a tie. This is no doubt due to the much thinner cylinder in the .45. Still the .45 can match the .44, due to being able to throw the same weight and speed at lower pressure. I agree with Shotstring about not pushing a Colt, or Colt copy, they just weren't meant for it. Rugers can take it, and a BFR in .45 Colt is basically just a short chambered .454 Casull, and should handle any reasonable handload. In a strong gun, the Colt with it's bigger case is a thumper. Any one remember Seyfrieds article where he used the 5 shot custom Ruger in .45 Colt to get a 413 grain boolit to 1,348 fps in a 6" barrel? Thats a thumper!

[freedom475]

Any one remember Seyfrieds article where he used the 5 shot custom Ruger in .45 Colt to get a 413 grain boolit to 1,348 fps in a 6" barrel? Thats a thumper!


These articles actually have the story of when John Linebaugh first introduced Seyfried to the idea of such things from a 45colt. Seyfried was hideing behind the barn when John touched the first round off because he didn't believe it was possible or safe...John proved him wrong.

http://www.customsixguns.com/writings/dissolving_the_myth.htm
http://www.customsixguns.com/writings/heavyweight_bullets.htm

[475/480]

Hi TX BOOMER,
I sent you a PM about a Ballisticast 4 cavity- 453-285gr WFNGC mould I have for sale if you are interested.

Thanks Sean

[MT Gianni]

I remember losing any respect for Bob milek I may have had when he showed a sectioned case of a 44mag next to a ballon head 45 to show it was weaker. Gun's and Ammo readers called him on it and a few issues later he came out with "Hey it could happen". Yea, if you were a cartridge collector and had a brain spasm. This brings up a good reason to buy cases in large lots especially for higher pressure loads and keep records of what was shot how many times and with what loads. Ganni

[Four Fingers of Death]

It is hardly realistic to quote performance from a custom chamber, which will no doubt be a lot tighter than a ruger chamber.

The best way to see the performance / pressure thingo is to grind off the rims on opposite side of a new case and then load and fire it. With the rim filed off on either side, it allows you to get the micrometer right in there without interference from the rim. It is interesting to note the susequent stretching with various reloads.

[yeahbub]

I wonder how long Ross Seyfried would have stayed behind the barn had John Linebaugh flung a handful of gravel in the air to rain down on the barn roof like gun parts immediately after the first shot. . . . :mrgreen::mrgreen::mrgreen:

[TX BOOMER]

I have read some of John Linebaugh satements on the 45LC and some of his load data. Seems like in 1 article he loaded a 300gr bullet w/ 22grs of H110. To me that would be a strong load . And I don't think it would be a real advange for me in the whitetail woods. Was thinking more on the line a 260 gr or 300 gr at 950 fps to 1000 fps. Using a truncated or a rfn bullet . They should shoot at a 100 yards if I do my part ,not sure what kind of groups I'll get, but at 50 or less yards I feel sure that either 1 of them would take a deer . Once I get up an get to casting my own then I will start getting into other bullets. So if you think there is something wrong with my chroice of bullets please tell me , if not this is where I will start. Thank each of you for helping me out. :Fire:

[dubber123]

I have read some of John Linebaugh satements on the 45LC and some of his load data. Seems like in 1 article he loaded a 300gr bullet w/ 22grs of H110. To me that would be a strong load . And I don't think it would be a real advange for me in the whitetail woods. Was thinking more on the line a 260 gr or 300 gr at 950 fps to 1000 fps. Using a truncated or a rfn bullet . They should shoot at a 100 yards if I do my part ,not sure what kind of groups I'll get, but at 50 or less yards I feel sure that either 1 of them would take a deer . Once I get up an get to casting my own then I will start getting into other bullets. So if you think there is something wrong with my chroice of bullets please tell me , if not this is where I will start. Thank each of you for helping me out. :Fire:

There is surely nothing wrong with the loads you are interested in, and they may be easier for you to shoot well than real boomers. FYI, Hodgdons manual #27 lists 22.2 grs. of H-110 with a 300 gr. jacketed. Given the same amount of boolit in the case, a 300 gr. cast will produce quite a bit less pressure, which is listed at only 30,100 CUP with the jacketed, much much below the safe level for your BFR.

[Rafe Covington]

Never had a blackhawk in 45 Colt, been shooting a 300 gr. bullet with 18.5 grs of 2400 in a Redhawk 45 Colt. It has killed several deer and 2 hogs. It works for me is all I can say. Later:drinks:

[dubber123]

Never had a blackhawk in 45 Colt, been shooting a 300 gr. bullet with 18.5 grs of 2400 in a Redhawk 45 Colt. It has killed several deer and 2 hogs. It works for me is all I can say. Later:drinks:

18 grains of 2400 with a 310 gr. swc plain base shoots very well out of my S&W, and I have no doubt it would work well for hunting.

[shotstring]

you could probably grab two differnt brands of cases and get just the opposite results. Brass varys alot between manufactures and even lot to lot with the same manufacture. If you want a real eye opener check case capasitys between differnt brands of 308 or 223 brass or another one that really varys a mile is 500 linebaugh brass. The problem that was allways stated with the 45 colt brass was the old unsupported headed (baloon headed) brass and collectors even have problem finding expamples of that stuff anymore. I load tons of 44 and 45 ammo and dont see a bit a differnce in case life with either running the same pressures. Ive also yet to see a large framed ruger blow up with ruger level loads out of a loading manual. What blows them up are idiots that think they know more then the loading manual and you can blow up any sixgun if your an idiot like that.


I think you are right Lloyd, and I guess that is part of my point. I admit that I am not always the most system oriented in my reloading practices, and I often mix brass manufacturer, primer manufacturer, case length and case thickness when I reload. At least for handgun, as it gets mixed up and it is just too time consuming to seperate it all out and keep track of number of times the brass was reloaded etc unless it is for competition. I also hate to admit it, but I often don't work up to maximum loads either....if it is listed in my old Speer manual, I just load it up as almost all my guns would fall into the class of better made shooting irons so I don't really worry too much about catastrophic failure as long as I don't go over the printed maximums. This is my small but effective "safety net". That has worked for me for over 30 years but I wouldn't dare take this approach if I was really pushing the envelope nor should I base recomendations to other shooters based on it, as they more than likely take far more rigourous precautions and step-wise procedures to insure excessive pressures are not generated as they work up the velocity ladder with their loads.

So I apoligize for making recommendations based on my "half-assed" approach to handgun caliber reloading. Most peoples reloading techniques would be "fully assed" and so much greater velocities can most certainly be attained safely with the 45 Long Colt cartridge. :-D :drinks:

[shooting on a shoestring]

To me it makes sense to consider the purpose for a particular load, and then select components and levels of rigor. I keep several coffee cans of .38spl loaded, mixed brass, whatever standard primer, 3.5 gr Bullseye dropped, only spot check weights, use whatever boolit I have a bunch of. The purpose is to feed my J-frame when I'm shoulder to shoulder at the dueling tree with my nephew (oh yeah, his Model 19 feeds out the same trough).

However, I also keep my "upper end" brass segergated, boxed, measured, trimmed, tumbled, lots never mixed. It gets loaded with lots of data checking, thought, weighed charges, carefully selected components, loaded slowly with lots of inspection.

When I'm hunting for the top end, or looking for the tightest groups, my loading gets rigorous. But when I'm cranking out clang ringers, I just get in safe territory and load fast.

I'll bet most do the same.

[Lloyd Smale]

theres absoultely nothing wrong with erroring on the light side. For the most part those few extra fps dont buy anything in the game field anyway. Ive got a routine with my brass. When i load rounds for hunting season what i first do is decide which guns im going to use. Then i take out new brass for load developement or if ive allready got loads for the gun i use new to load up my practice ammo and stick with that brass for the duration of the season. when hunting is over the remaining ammo becomes plinking ammo and whether its been fired once or fire 10 times it goes in the bucket with the plinking brass. I dont ever seperate brass or trim handgun brass. I just dont have time. Brass is thrown away as it cracks! hows that for sceintific!! What i dont do though is run top end loads with plinking brass. I keep loads to about 1100 fps or less with it. Ive run enough VERY stout 45 loads in rugers. Some id be ashamed to admit. If your running proper powders (slow enough) your not going to blow up a ruger single action. I have though shot one enough with heavy loads that it made it about into a kids rattle. the gun had some much end play and side to side play that it was unsafe to shoot. Dirty crime to do that to a gun when a guy isnt gaining anything in the process. I no longer do it and most of my hunting loads in the 45 colt run about 1100 fps and if i need more power i step up to a heavier bullet and if that doesnt get me to the level i want i put the gun in the safe and grab a bigger gun.
I think you are right Lloyd, and I guess that is part of my point. I admit that I am not always the most system oriented in my reloading practices, and I often mix brass manufacturer, primer manufacturer, case length and case thickness when I reload. At least for handgun, as it gets mixed up and it is just too time consuming to seperate it all out and keep track of number of times the brass was reloaded etc unless it is for competition. I also hate to admit it, but I often don't work up to maximum loads either....if it is listed in my old Speer manual, I just load it up as almost all my guns would fall into the class of better made shooting irons so I don't really worry too much about catastrophic failure as long as I don't go over the printed maximums. This is my small but effective "safety net". That has worked for me for over 30 years but I wouldn't dare take this approach if I was really pushing the envelope nor should I base recomendations to other shooters based on it, as they more than likely take far more rigourous precautions and step-wise procedures to insure excessive pressures are not generated as they work up the velocity ladder with their loads.

So I apoligize for making recommendations based on my "half-assed" approach to handgun caliber reloading. Most peoples reloading techniques would be "fully assed" and so much greater velocities can most certainly be attained safely with the 45 Long Colt cartridge. :-D :drinks: