P.I.D. help wanted

[slim1836]

I am ready to take the plunge and try to put together a P.I.D., however, I have absolutely no electronic knowledge or experience. I know absolutely nothing about electrical components, what they do individually, or how they work. I just know how to turn the thing on and that's about it.

What I'm looking for is a mentor, someone who will be willing to take me under their wing and walk me through the entire assembly process. I have what I believe to be the components needed saved on my account with "Auber Instruments" but would like someone to look them over and see if the parts selected is a proper selection prior to ordering.

I can assemble things but reading schematics I am ignorant of. I need someone who can help me through the process.

My current list is as follows:

1) 40A SSR
(model # MGR-1D4840)
2) Universal 1/16 DIN PID Temp. Controller
(model # SYL-2362
3) K Type high temp. thermocouple
(model # WRNK-191)
4) 120V 15A US Socket, Panel Mount
(model # OUTS1) (to plug my Lee 20 LB pot into)
5) 120V 15A Receptacle
(model # INR1) (Power to Power Cord)
6) Power Cord
(NEMA 5-15p TO C13 Power Cord) (to wall)

I am still looking for an enclosure to mount the components in. Also, I read somewhere with a 40 Amp SSR a heat sink would not be needed.

Anyone willing to help would be greatly appreciated.

Slim

[Mike W1]

That stuff should work just fine. However if it were me I'd just go with a 25A SSR and get a heat sink for that. I'm not knowledgeable enough to say one way or the other on using a 40A SSR without a heat sink. Your choice obviously though.

I'd suggest also you get one of the plug/socket assemblies for the TC as you may want to hook your luber sizer up to the PID unit and control your heater on that someday.

A lot of the guys have purchased components off ebay and saved a bundle. I didn't but then I got tech support if needed and instructions I could read for the extra money spent. Still think it was worth it too!

You'll love it when you get it up and running. I do get at my computer several times a day so feel free to PM me and I'll try and help you through it. Another thing which you've likely done is read through the stickies, there's a lot of good stuff in there. Each PID wires just a little differently most likely but Aubers manuals are good. These guys on here will get you going and it's not really that difficult actually.

[slim1836]

Thanks Mike W1 for the feedback, I don' have a luber sizer and don't plan on it (as of now) as I tumble lube and powder coat, but it is a thought. What is T/C?
I'm going to wait on more feedback on the need for a heat sink, just to see what others think. I liked the thought of getting my components from one place as diagrams are always helpful, even if I cant read them. I do like to keep things like that in my library.

Slim

[Beagle333]

TC is thermocouple. Definitely get a plug/socket for that, so you can use multiple thermocouples if you want. I like the K-plugs for mine. I got a female on the PID and so I got a different thermocouple on my lube heater, my pot, and my toaster oven (for PC).
Each one just plugs into the K plug on the PID when I get ready to swap uses. You can get extra thermocouples with K plugs already connected to them in varying lengths on Ebay for $2-6 bucks from China as long as you got a female K plug on your unit that you build. You can't beat em! Cheap and they work great! Who knows what all you'll want to run with that PID once you get it built.

[slim1836]

Ok, talked me into it, will add it to the list.

Can the enclosure box be out of wood?

Slim

[Mike W1]

I can't see any reason not to. I'd put some ventilating holes in it. The holes to mount the PID and the socket for the TC probe need to be fairly snug fitting. I'd suggest something on the thin side to make the front panel or make a plate out of some 1/8" aluminum. Holes would be easy to make in that and file to fit. You'll come up with something easily enough.

[dikman]

If you make it out of wood, make the front panel out of aluminium, as Mike suggested (easy to work with) and if you use it for the rear panel too then you may be able to bolt the SSR on it to act as a bit of a heatsink (use some thermal paste under the SSR). The 40 amp shouldn't get too hot anyway.

[hermans]

I used old PC power supplies, they are made from a rather tuff thin type of coated steel, but with simple tools you can easily make the cut out for the PID and there normally are lots of space inside to mount the SSR. Also they normally have the mains plugs already mounted, input and output, and one normally can get these for free or very cheap from any computer shop.

[Beagle333]

Can the enclosure box be out of wood?
Slim

I'm currently building my newest one in a USPS Medium Flat Rate box.... 'cause it was free, and... I haven't seen one built like that yet. :cool:

[slim1836]

I did think about old license plates as an enclosure, glad I thought twice. Still thinking though, that's what gets me in trouble.

Slim

[dikman]

You can buy metal boxes from electronics hobby-type places (just one possibility). The junked computer power supply is probably the cheapest option, and does a good job. Scrap all the innards, fit a square bit of metal over the fan hole - you could mount the PID in it if you wanted, and you have a perfectly good housing.

[hermans]

dikman, you have got it spot on! Great advice.

[slim1836]

My main concern will be wiring, which wire goes to what terminal. I also don't know what gauge wire to use. I heard special types of crimp on connectors should be used.
Little things like that I am ignorant of, however, I am capable of connecting (for example) a 16 gauge wire from terminal #3 on PID to terminal #1 on the SSR etc..

Slim

[CIBCasting]

PID do it yourself kits are available.

They contain a prebuilt wiring harness and complete instructions.
also ever part is included - even the steel housing.
You only need a screw driver to wire it all up.

and it was designed by an engineer.

[Mike W1]

You'll find it's much simpler than you think and you'll get walked thru it when you've got your box and openings made in it. I'd also suggest a terminal strip or two available at Radio Shack for about $3.49 if I remember correctly.


My main concern will be wiring, which wire goes to what terminal. I also don't know what gauge wire to use. I heard special types of crimp on connectors should be used.
Little things like that I am ignorant of, however, I am capable of connecting (for example) a 16 gauge wire from terminal #3 on PID to terminal #1 on the SSR etc..

Slim

[Cane_man]

home depot sells some plastic electrical enclosures that would work fine, this one is $12 and is 6x6x4

http://www.homedepot.com/catalog/productImages/300/2f/2fdbf967-c740-4c5e-87b4-d0be118d828c_300.jpg

[Cane_man]

when i made my PID temp controller this thread and diagram helped the most:

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?34547-How-I-wired-a-PID-to-control-temperature&p=384606&viewfull=1#post384606

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=8509&stc=1&d=1219539013

i used the 40A SSR, drilled a few holes in the al box i use, and it has never over heated at all, gets a little warm but not hot

[slim1836]

Cane man,

That's the type of schematic I need to go off from.

Thanks,

Slim

[dikman]

As for cable size, simplest way is to get a bit of 110v power cable, strip the outer covering off and use that. Crimps? Maybe, but simple screw terminals will work fine. Keep It Simple. If you read about alarm feeds, external high/low LEDs etc, just ignore it, they're not necessary. That schematic is all you need (although you could put an on/off switch on the box, where the power comes in from the wall - if you want to).

[slim1836]

I found and stripped a power supply from an old computer this morning, the box may be adequate for use. If not, will look elsewhere.

I plan on ordering my items next week.

Woohoo,

Slim

[Moonie]

I'm in the middle of building one out of a computer PSU, it is rather simple, 8' grounded extension cord cut and used for in and out. Looks very similar to the diagram above except I left in the fan and it will be powered by the dc output from the controller, so when the SSR is closed the fan is running. This will give me an indication of it being on and cool the 25A SSR. I'm setting this first one up to control a DIY Sous Vide cooking system.

[slim1836]

Played with my stripped computer power supply, cut some holes, they didn't turn out to good. Still going to keep at it. I may have the ugliest assembly when I get done, but if it works, I'm happy.

I still need a terminal strip from Radio Shack, some wire, and heat shrink tubing.

103603103604103605

Forgot to get the beer out of the picture.:twisted:

[Cane_man]

^^^ the beer is the most important part of the project :guntootsmiley:


the project looks great, coming along nicely...


are you going to do your own wiring on the thermocouple, the male "plug" part? if so it is easy to get the wires switched up and if you don't get the wires on the correct part of the plug then the thermocouple won't work... there is a trick, as one wire is magnetic and one isn't for a type K thermocouple...

"Testing polarity of a Type K thermocouple
You can easily test the polarity of a Type K thermocouples. The negative wire is MORE magnetic than the positive wire. Just put a magnet up to each wire. One will be more magnetic than the other. (This does not work for Type S thermocouples.)"

any old magnet will do, i just pulled one off the of the fridge...

[slim1836]

Thank for the thermocouple tip, I'll try it.

[Mike W1]

Just hold the probe tip firmly with your fingers and if the temperature doesn't rise but goes down instead it just means you're reversed.

[Springfield]

I burned out 2 25 amp SSR's with heatsinks. My 40 amp is going on 2 years now and is fine, but then I have a 1500 watt Magma pot.

[slim1836]

GOT ER DONE
103937
Now I just need to learn how to set the temperature. Thanks for all the help guys.
Could not have done it without your feedback.

Slim

[Cane_man]

you did something wrong, there is no beer in the picture