Mike venturinos favorite 44 caliber bullet?

[Buckshot Bowman]

Hello lads,
awhile ago I came across a posting or an article, on Mike Veturino, [I refuse to call him by his self imposed moniker of " Duke" There is only one duke.]
was now casting just one 44 bullet for all his 44 revolvers. I can not seem to remember that bullet.

If this is a true tale, I for one would like to know what it is, and how well such a choice works out. Especially as I look at the pile of nine 44 different pistol moulds on my shelf.
Some I curse, and some I worship, like the one that has an EK associated with it.

I would like to reduce this pile of iron to one or two choices in RNFP and SWC bullets

No arguments or boasting please, just if you are aware of such a choice made by MV.

Thanks,

Donald Bowman

[dbosman]

For the .44-40, there is this article and quote.
https://www.riflemagazine.com/magazine/article.cfm?magid=109&tocid=1616
The one cast bullet I have come to favor over all others is RCBS 44-200FN, which was introduced in the mid-1980s. It has given me fine groups from most of the .44 WCF/.44-40 guns that have come my way and perfect functioning from every repeating rifle it has been tried in. From my 1-20 (tin-to-lead) alloy, these bullets fall from the mould at about 214 grains. They measure .429 inch, making them suitable for sizing to fit most any .44 WCF/.44-40 barrel diameter one might encounter. The 1-20 alloy is perfectly suitable for bullets traveling at .44 WCF/.44-40 speeds in any reasonable load, and it is kept on hand anyway for my big single-shot BPCRs. Bullets cast from it give fine accuracy and less leading than with some of the harder alloys custom casters use.

[dbosman]

Some articles attribute Mike with using the Lyman 429667 for all his .44 work.

[W.R.Buchanan]

I have talked to him about this very subject. His overall thrust is to try to condense as much shooting into as little time as possible. This means cutting down on the number of different types of boolits cast. They all have to be sized and lubed etc. which takes more time.

He has literally hundreds of boolit moulds. For .44's he favors RCBS.44-200 for .44-40 and Lyman 429667 for Specials and Magnums.

However he is not beyond using others for specialized uses. For just plain plinking and SASS shooting the above ones are the first choices mainly because he will set up and cast a bunch of them at one time and the feed and work well in revolvers and rifles both.

I personally think Brian Pearce is a better choice for recommendations on .44 cal cast boolits and loading data. Him and his sons shoot more .44's than everyone else I have ever heard of combined, with the possible exception of Elmer Keith, who Brian was buddies with.

He's big on 429421 or 429244 for a GC style boolit for .44 revolvers. If you want to go lighter then 429215 for a GC boolit and or the RCBS .44-200 RN.

Most rifles will feed the RN style boolits better unless the chamber mouth has been chamfered which will allow the SWC's to feed well also.

Hope this helps.

I refuse to call him "Duke" as well. Seems silly in the wake of John Wayne, who will never be outdone.

Randy

[Buckshot Bowman]

Thanks lads,
now I recall, it is the RCBS 44-200 and the lyman 429667 I don't have the RCBS, but I have an old Ohaus 44-200, but it looks a lot like the old lyman 42798, but a smaller meplat and grease grooves.

I will probably never sell any in that pile, especially my square groove 429421, and after 50 years of shooting, I have never needed a gas check on a pistol, even when I was on a Keith kick loading the full 22 grains of 2400 with the 429421 and never had any leading issues shooting hard cast bullets.

I will give the RCBS a try, as I have in the past few years gone goofy for the 44-40, and have seven guns chambered for it. Amazingly the Laser Cast 44-40 in .427 has been a very accurate bullet behind 8 grains of unique no matter the chamber size of both revolver and rifle. I do wish they would bump that one up to .428, as I think I could shrink my groups with that little extra width.

Thanks,
Buckshot

Donald Bowman

[BruceB]

So, here we have Mr."Buckshot" who refuses to use Mike Venturino's chosen nickname.

Let me point out that the 'film idol' Duke was simply an ACTOR, reciting lines written by others in movies plotted and paid-for by others.

His personal accomplishments amount to a long career in FICTITIOUS situations, with very few, if any, accomplishments in the REAL world that lies outside the gates of filmdom.

Make no mistake, I enjoyed his movies and think he was a good actor. However, apparently unlike some others, I never confused his "movie persona" with reality.

Mike V., on the other hand, has a lengthy list of REAL accomplishment, unlike the much-revered horse-opera actor. Among his accomplishments Mike has published books which have become standard reference material, is a respected author of magazine articles, and has won some very serious shooting matches.

These things are REAL, not the product of some pulp-fiction scriptwriter.

There are a hell of a lot of other "Dukes" in the world besides ol' Marion, and I've met quite a few of them. (Some were...dare I say it..... DOGS.)

As far as I'm concerned, Mike can use any nickname that strikes his fancy.... I'd say he's earned the right to do so.

I'll add that we here on this Board already HAVE a "Buckshot", who happens to be an esteemed founding member from long before 2005, a prolific contributor, and a custom machinist providing vital services to our members. "THERE IS ONLY ONE....... BUCKSHOT"!

[Dale53]

BruceB;
Good for you!! I couldn't have put it better, my self!

Mike has done much for those of us who are hardly happier than when we are either casting our own or shooting loads using our home cast bullets from our favored revolvers.

My personal favorite .44 cast bullet is my own cast from one of Mihec's superb moulds - a faithful copy of the H&G #503 (250 gr Keith). I have taken a number of deer with bullets of that design using a couple of different .44 magnums. That bullet works well as a target bullet at modest velocities as well as full house .44 Magnums. It punches serious holes in flesh weather it is a 250 lb whitetail buck or a 2.0 lb cotton tail.

FWIW,
Dale53

[Buckshot Bowman]

Bruce and Dale,
Well here we go, I asked in my first post for no arguments, and here we have them.
First off, I was and still am a fan of Venturinos writings for more years than I can remember, hence my respect for his choice of 44 bullets which is the basis of this post. I was taken back a bit when out of the blue he began to refer to himself as Duke in his articles, if he wants to fine with and for him.

As for John Wayne, he was a role model for me as a child in the 1950's and still is. Yes he was just an actor, but he tried to represent the importance of character in a man both on and off the stage.
Duke is not a name he crowned himself with to make himself more admirable and more "man like" He was given the nickname Duke by the Glendale Ca. fire department as a child named Marion. He had a dog named Duke, and the firemen would call out here comes big Duke and little Duke. Little duke was Marion, and the Duke just stuck.

I don't know what kind of infatuation you have with MV to attack me so personally, someone you don't know, never met and have no knowledge of me other than this post is beyond me.
As far as using Buckshot as my nom de plume, it is based on Buckshot Roberts, a real old West character, a buffalo hunter, frontiersman and some time bounty hunter who died violently in the Lincoln County wars at the hands of the Regulators. No other reason than fun, fun to have a user name that represents an era of the American West that I enjoy, study, and through the shooting sports attempt to emulate. I am quite sure if you went to every forum site that deals in the shooting sports and the old West, you will come up with at least 50 Buchshot *.* user names., so I don't believe I am riding another man's horse here.

So there you go, after this, I promise never to post on any thread to which you subscribe so I won't offend you in any way, as I don't know what else you are so touchy about.

God Luck and have fun.

Buchshot Bowman
Donald Bowman

[Fishman]

Well Buckshot B, when the first sentence of your post speaks dismissively of one of the more knowledgeable and prolific cast bullet writers in recent history, you have to expect some response, wouldn't you think? BruceB was just having a little fun I'd expect. I got a chuckle out of it anyway. This is a hobby after all and it's supposed to be a diversion from real problems.

[prs]

I can not state with authority why Mike V. selected Iron Duke as his SASS moniker; or even if that purpose was his original motive for so adopting. Many SASS members choose monikers that honor the ideals of a historical or fictional figure, some in taunt of a hstorical or fictional bad guy. Most likely Mike V. is actually honoring the "character" of Duke Wayne. So why dis Mike V.? Why would one expect no commentary after making such an obvious attempt at petty slander anyway. At least he got his answer.

prs

[Buckshot Bowman]

Let's see, I am dismissive, while the other two are just poking fun.

Oh well, I have to think about this, as It wouldn't be the first forum I left, because a member can't help himself from turning an acorn into a 200 foot oak in two seconds flat.

DB

[Buckshot Bowman]

Well now that you have all got that out of your system,
Try reading the post beyond the first line, and my response to my respect for his work.

I will give your comments some thought, as this wouldn't be the first forum I left, due to the fact that some people can turn an acorn into a 200 foot tall oak in 5 seconds flat.
DB

[Piedmont]

I'm pretty sure I remember both Mike Venturino and John Taffin writing that they buy most of their cast handgun bullets. Each said they have limited time and they have found a or several commercially cast options that work for them. Venturino commented in one of his articles that he was casting a 200 gr. round nose for his .44 Russian because he couldn't buy a bullet like that. Of course, Venturino casts his own rifle bullets for matches.

[MT Chambers]

John Wayne was quite a big game hunter when not acting and I believe that if he was around today he would be a big plus for our side in our fight with those trying to take our guns away, I don't care how many folks want to call themselves duke, but when I hear Duke, I think of John Wayne!

[bisleyfan41]

For the life of me I can't recall the story right now, but Mike V has written in the past that he was given the nickname "Duke", not self-named. And it nothing what-so-ever to do with John Wayne. Mike ain't trying to claim John Wayne's persona at all.
Research, don't assume.

[Chill Wills]

For the life of me I can't recall the story right now, but Mike V has written in the past that he was given the nickname "Duke", not self-named. And it nothing what-so-ever to do with John Wayne. Mike ain't trying to claim John Wayne's persona at all.
Research, don't assume.

BINGO !
I can not remember either but his moniker and Wayne's had noting to do with one-in-other. I guess that when he told the story it was, well.... plain vanilla ... not memorable. But, just not "the Duke". What they both are known for and maybe why you put it together, is shooting guns in some capacity: movies in the case of the VERY famous Duke. If you knew MLV, even a little bit, the whole thing would not cross your mind. Take a deep breath ...... Back to shooting and casting 44's [smilie=s:
:popcorn:

[jonp]

I can not state with authority why Mike V. selected Iron Duke as his SASS moniker; or even if that purpose was his original motive for so adopting. Many SASS members choose monikers that honor the ideals of a historical or fictional figure, some in taunt of a hstorical or fictional bad guy. Most likely Mike V. is actually honoring the "character" of Duke Wayne. So why dis Mike V.? Why would one expect no commentary after making such an obvious attempt at petty slander anyway. At least he got his answer.

prs

Maybe he is related to The 1st Duke of Wellington, "The Iron Duke" Arthur Wellesley or his Dad or someone he admires/admired served in the 2-67th Armor "The Iron Dukes" in Europe during WW2

[Buckshot Bowman]

Maybe he is related to The 1st Duke of Wellington, "The Iron Duke" Arthur Wellesley or his Dad or someone he admires/admired served in the 2-67th Armor "The Iron Dukes" in Europe during WW2

OR the HMS Iron Duke, a 19th Century British battleship or the 1855 British Steam locomotive, or even the famous Pontiac Iron Duke Motor it kinda goes on and on.

I call myself Buckshot here, Wolf Killer at SASS and Thunder Pants on an adult site I occasionally visit, but I don't sign these names in the public domain or attach them to correspondance or articles I write. I sign them simply Donald Bowman

[44man]

I like Mike but we have had words too. But if he is "Duke" it is OK with me. I don't confuse him with John Wayne. But John was more then an actor. He was a real man and should have been president, like Reagan.
I have a friend that has the name of Elmer, fine name but he hates it, you Must call him Dutch.
Then Taffin--- What can I say. He wears a hat like Elmer, has a mean look and holds a six gun wrong. I confess to not liking him at all or anything he has ever written. He personally insulted not only me but this site and how we spell BOOLITS. Mike can tell you how to do things but Taffin can't. He has a young guy do his shooting because he ruined his wrists with the wrong hold for recoil. Shots are 20 yards with any out of the group not counted.
Mike V is a good old boy but Taffin has a big head not deserved. He promotes advertisers that give him free stuff.
Sadly, I learned about gun writers and have little use for some. My beef with Mike was how he got so much stuff and so many very expensive old guns, any one of which is worth more then my house. Horse trading does not buy it.
Mike does not post here anymore and I miss him. Am I the cause of him leaving?

[jonp]

Hold on big guy...Thunder Pants?? TMI right there lol

[OuchHot!]

Yes, I would certainly say you were the reason he left for better pastures. The archives will show your shameless and stupid attack where you ranted that Mike was making a fortune shilling bullet lube. In fact, Garbe is the sole proprietor of that lube that you, totally falsely accused Mike of shilling. He handed you your head in a sack on this site and hiked. Thanks 22 girl. Anyone with doubts go back a couple of years and read the shameful facts.

[HollandNut]

MV , from what I recall named his self the Iron Duke after something I actually remember ..
1962 Pontiac 4 cyl named the Iron Duke , it was basically a V8 cut in half and weighed around 500 pounds ..

Lighten up , it's only a nickname , John Wayne don't own the rights to "The Duke" .. I didn't like him as an actor ( except in El Dorado ) , he couldn't ride a horse , but he stood up for what we believe , and it did not take very much for him to get cranked up when someone spoke out against this country ..

[Buckshot Bowman]

Hold on big guy...Thunder Pants?? TMI right there lol

I wanted to us the user name of The Iron Duke on that adult site, but it was already taken by some guy in Montana.

Buckshot
Donald Bowman

[Tatume]

So, here we have Mr."Buckshot" who refuses to use Mike Venturino's chosen nickname.

Let me point out that the 'film idol' Duke was simply an ACTOR, reciting lines written by others in movies plotted and paid-for by others.

His personal accomplishments amount to a long career in FICTITIOUS situations, with very few, if any, accomplishments in the REAL world that lies outside the gates of filmdom.

I thought we were talking about Duke the dog. :-)

Take care, Tom

[crawfobj]

I for one enjoy Mike's articles, and he was kind enough to respond to an email I sent him when I was a newbie caster, despite the fact that I now know it to have been a dumb question.

His casting articles are written for general consumption and are often below the boolit knowledge on this board, but newbies like I was not long ago can still benefit before they find the wealth of information and experience here. I have learned far more from all of you than I could have from any book or article, but Mike's writings are still informative.

I don't see any reason for disrespect for him or any of the other writers out there, as long as they continue to promote unconditional support for 2A, responsible gun ownership and everything that goes along with it.

[Buckshot Bowman]

Well,
I guess we should stop here, as it is as most threads go when someone take a innocent comment and sends it to Mars.

To end it I will say in all truthfulness, I like Mike, I have everyone of his books including the very rare colt revolver book and two copies of buffalo Rifles, as I have just about wore out the first copy.
I have a pile of magazines and clipped and saved articles by Mike, as I enjoy what he writes about and for the most part I trust what he writes. I too am jealous of being able to live on a ranch in Montana, going on safaris and owning a antique gun collection that I can only dream about, and all on a writers salary. I wish I had invested as wisely during my working life, I am now retired, and every gun purchase has to be weighed carefully against heart medicine and food.

So let's stop now, turn out the lights and sing Happy Trails as we ride into the sunset..

Buckshot Bowman

[Tatume]

Mike Venturino is my brother's favorite gun writer. He is in my list of top ten. His writing style is fine, but my interest in some of his guns is not as strong as my interest in other types. For example, his favorite High Walls are 22 LR military training muskets. My favorite High Walls are finely crafted hunting rifles. I still like reading about his muskets though.

Comparing some of Venturino's older stuff to his newer prose shows growth in both his knowledge and writing skills, which were never lacking for much anyway. Still, it's interesting to observe. Some of the older photos of Duke are interesting too!

Duke's son tried to break into gun writing. Does anyone know what became of him?

[Chill Wills]

Mike Venturino is my brother's favorite gun writer.
Duke's son tried to break into gun writing. Does anyone know what became of him?

Perhaps you are thinking of someone else? Mike does not have any kids.

Hey Buckshot Bowman, I refuse to call you "Thunderpants'. That was my boy's nickname when he was two and I am sure you could never live up to his greatness.
FWIW - some things are best left untold........... :wink:

[cainttype]

he couldn't ride a horse ..

WHAT???.... I guess someone will come along shortly claiming Tom Cruise isn't really a ninja-type bad-a__ , or that he isn't attracted to women.... SHEESH! Some people will believe anything! :D

[N4AUD]

Actually John Wayne COULD ride a horse. Don't know why anyone would say otherwise. When he was a kid, after his family moved to California, they said that's about all he did do, riding around the countryside on his horse.

[gandydancer]

Duke? what does that mean? is that a swear word? careful! the eyes are on you.

OH! and by the way. WHO CARES???

[TXGunNut]

MV does lurk around here a bit, just like any number of gunwriters and a few employees of folks who manufacture our toys. I wish he'd contribute from time to time but I understand if he'd rather not. I've had the pleasure of visiting with him and Steve Garbe in Raton years ago, they're both the real deal and are good for our cause as well as pleasant to visit with. I've enjoyed Mikes articles over the years as well as the primer he co-wrote with Steve. Mike's chapters in the latest Lyman CB manual were quite good as well, IMHO. Really enjoyed his book on leverguns as well. OTOH I enjoyed Taffin's Sixguns. Say what you want but he has pretty good taste in sixguns and seems to have his history down pretty well, AFAIK. I disagree with him on a few points but that keeps things interesting.
Back to the OP I've often wondered if I could get by with one mould per caliber. Only problem with that is that we have to have at least two to decide which is better and sometimes those two indicate a need for a third and the goal of finding one mould for all 44's (or in my case; 45's) gets lost and we just have a good time...or at least I do.

[N4AUD]

I had read MV's writings for years before I learned he was from my part of the country originally, the southern Appalachian coalfields. I understand he grew up just north of me in West Virginia. I don't know him but he seems OK to me.

[HollandNut]

I know the Duke could ride , actually there has been thru the years the rumor out that he could not ride , also that he didn't ride except in the movies and other rumors as well

Lighten Up

[Old Caster]

It seems strange that Mike would leave a site because of things 22 girl says considering the amazing claims he always comes up with that a veteran like Mike would know were fantasy.

[jonp]

I seems strange to me that people try to demean someone for comments instead of arguing the point. I thought there were adults on this site.

[Chill Wills]

It seems strange that Mike would leave a site because of things 22 girl says considering the amazing claims he always comes up with that a veteran like Mike would know were fantasy.
Well -your are right but the other side of it is you get wore out fending off knuckle-heads all the time.

-jonp
And then, not all adults were created equal.

When we want to come in here and chat it up- that's OK and when we're tiered of it we don't visit. And that's OK too. All adult choices.

Like anything, when someone assumes wrongly and then makes an unfounded disparaging remark: they get push back.

just my take on it -Michael Rix

[BruMatt]

John is an icon; Mike is an expert.
What 44 cast boolit do you prefer?
I like my Mihec 250 gr Keith.

[Old Caster]

Well -your are right but the other side of it is you get wore out fending off knuckle-heads all the time.

When we want to come in here and chat it up- that's OK and when we're tiered of it we don't visit. .

-Michael Rix

Michael it is common to have someone pick on a person out of jealousy, especially if they have proliferated, be it wealth or notoriety. These people also out of desperation make wild claims about themselves to get some attention but should grow up regardless of how old they are.

If you see Mike often, let him know that he is appreciated for his input. After all, he did it, and showed us. -- Bill Lau --

[HollandNut]

I think the best thing for someone who is "known" is to use a handle that no one would associate with them .. I've read MV for many years and he seems a strait shooter , but someone like him on a forum probably has all the "experts" there trying to corner him with something ..

In fairness neither do I know 44man , BUT , I do know someone who shoots and hunts with him , or did at one time , and that person would probably vouch for him

[Hawkeye45]

My avatar is "The Duke". I think it refers to Duke Wayne, my X named him after the Duke of Earle.
Whatever, he is my best friend, no matter what.

Mr. Ed

[HollandNut]

best looking Duke I ever seen

[a.squibload]

Well I don't know about all that but I wish I had known that it was ALLOWED
to have only one 44 mold 'cause I coulda used the money for other things
over the years...

:veryconfu

[dondiego]

Having one 44 mold may be allowed in Colorado but it is against the law in Michigan.

Don

[crawfobj]

Having one 44 mold may be allowed in Colorado but it is against the law in Michigan.

Don


I think the minimum is 5 in Texas. Everything bigger and all that...