Getting ready to smelt the next batch - question about Roto Super Tough babbit

[Deep Six]

I recently used up my last ingot. With a new Mihec mold coming soon, I need more ingots! I'm getting ready to mix up the next batch and am trying to decide what alloy I want. My smelting pot holds 60 lbs of melt. I need a good general purpose alloy; it will be used air-cooled in 38, 44, and 45, and water quenched in gas-checked 8mm rifle loads of about 2200 fps. I can also water quench if needed for magnums in 357 and 44. I use Ben's Red lube for most stuff but am experimenting with powder coating and like it on the low pressure stuff so far. I have the following material on hand:

• 2-52 lb ingots of lead from a commercial recycler (it was sold to me as straight lead but I think it's probably closer to range lead alloy)
• 15 lbs clip-on WW
• 4 lbs of "mystery" lead ingots from my coworker (he found them cleaning out his father-in-laws garage - they are kind of rusty looking on the exterior but are good 'ole soft lead underneath)

Obviously I'll need to add some tin and something to harden it up. I was going to order some superhard alloy from Rotometals and then add a lb of 95/5 solder but I think the 5 lb ingot of superhard will be too much Sb. I got to looking around the Roto sight and found their Super Tough babbit alloy which is 84/8/8 Sn/Sb/Cu. This appears to be a more cost effective means of getting a good usable alloy and I've been wanted to experiment with copper. So what I was thinking was that I would fill my 60 lb pot with 43 lbs of pure (which I suspect is actually closer to range lead alloy), 15 lbs WW, and 2 lbs of the super tough. This would give me an alloy of about 95.2/3.1/1.4/0.27 Pb/Sn/Sb/Cu with a trace of arsenic from the WW. Per the alloy spreadsheet it would have a hardness of about 11.0 when air cooled.

I know it sounds a little soft but I'm hoping the copper and water quenching allows it to work in the higher pressure loads. Anyone have any experience with alloying with Super Tough? Good idea or should I just stick to the Super Hard?

[62chevy]

I'd worry more about fit than hardness. Keep in mind Elmer Keith shot 16 parts lead to one part tin in his 44 mags so unless you want some super fast boolits the super hard or super tough isn't needed. You didn't say how fast or what you will be using your boolits for so it's hard to give advice and what I said is just my 2 cents worth.

[Deep Six]

Velocity will be as is standard and common for the calibers I listed (i.e. 800-1000 for the standard stuff and 1100-1400 for the magnum stuff). Uses will be paper, gongs, and probably deer this fall. Some of the gas-checked water-quenched boolits may end up in a 44 mag or stout 45 colt load for bear protection if I make it out west on a hiking trip before this batch of alloy is used up.

[dtknowles]

Everyone has their own style but I don't go for the one size fits all alloy idea. For my plain base moderate velocity bullets I go with range scrap with a little tin and a few wheelweights thrown in. I get and BHN of about 11 which I think is more than hard enough. I push them up to 1800 fps without leading to speak of. For my gas checked bullets I add a fair amount of Type Metal to get the BHN up to 16 to 18 but I still air cool. I push the GC bullets to 2200 fps still without leading problems. I could water drop and save on Antimony I guess but I am shooting ammo that I loaded in 2009 and I think water dropped bullets get softer over time. Actually I have ammo on my shelf that I loaded in 1992. I do not make large lots of alloy ingots, I segregate my component metals and mix smaller batches and cast a few hundred bullets. Test for hardness, sort and box the bullets, sprue, and rejects, mark the bullets and the sprue and rejects as to hardness. I use the sprue and rejects in a later batch of alloy with appropriate adjustments or added alloy to make enough for a new batch. Bullets I label with BHN the sprue and rejects I label soft, medium or hard. I have in inventory about 100 pounds of range scrap and a hundred or maybe a bit less of alloy enhancers like wheel weights, solder, type metal and rejects and sprue. I also have about 30 pounds of range scrap that I have not smelted, some stick on wheel weights and some shot. I like to keep my options open. I probably have 50 pounds of cast bullets that I have not loaded a fair part of that have not been sized or lubed.

Tim

[Deep Six]

That sounds nice but I just don't have time for all that at this point in life. Between my full time job, home ownership, and time with the family, it's difficult enough as it is to find time to smelt a batch of alloy a few times per year. Maybe I'll have time to mess with separate alloys when I retire in 35 years.

Really though, 98% of the application for my alloy will be handguns and revolvers. That's really not too much to ask of one alloy. The only rifle I shoot cast in is a gas-checked 175 gr 8mm that I load to about 2200 with IMR4198. Even that is only used occasionally for plinking and the water-quenched pistol alloy has worked just fine up till now.