Best expander Ball size in lead bullets. .45 Colt.

[Changeling]

Well the Title pretty well says it. I read an article that stated the Expander ball shoul be .449 for J type bullets and .450 for lead bullets.
However it was in a magazine and I thought it would be more prudent to put this to the forum as a question.

Ruger SS 5.5 " Large frame.
Barrel = .451 exactly.
Cylinder throats . 452

So, What exactly should the diameter of the Expander Ball be, with explanation?

[Outpost75]

Expander plug should be 0.002" less than bullet diameter with 30-degree flare to bell case mouth.

[RobS]

Depends on what a person is trying to do. Really soft alloy then .001 under boolit diameter and to the depth of the boolit base so there isn't any swage on the boolit. .002 is fine in most situations however just flaring the case for maximal case tension might be needed.

[detox]

My RCBS Cowboy expander plug has .454 engraved on stem, but actually measures .452. I size and shoot .454 bullets in my BlackHawk successfully without leading. So .002 neck tension sounds about right.

[wv109323]

I think .001 or .002" under a properly sized bullet for your bore. If .452 Boolits shoot well then an expander of .451 or .452 should be right.

[Outpost75]

0.001" works with a new, once-fired or re-annealed case.

After several reloadings as the brass work-hardens spring-back affects bullet fit, which is why the die companies recommend 0.002" under bullet diameter, whether for cast or jacketed, so in the .45s it is 0.449" for a .451 bullet, .452" for a .454" bullet, etc.

[44man]

It still depends on boolit toughness. I can't measure the Hornady expander, it is fixed up in the die. I do know it only enters the brass about 3/8" making the boolit expand the rest as it is seated. I can see the boolit base and ripples from GG's on the brass. No place for dead soft lead.
Using the right alloy and there is no reason an expander should be different then what is used for jacketed.
It is when you want to shoot soft where problems come up with no tension, sized boolits, poor ignition, etc.
I have shot many boolits cast of 50-50, WW's and pure but had to oven harden to 18-20 BHN and they need a GC. That has no affect on expansion at all for hunting. It does let the boolit resist seating better.
Normal expander plugs are too fat and too long for tension. CA stuff is worse. Size dies are usually OK.
You really do want to see the boolit in the brass. Don't look for a smooth case.

[44man]

Do NOT anneal revolver brass for any reason. You will be sorry. As brass is used more it gets more accurate. Tension seems to even out. New brass is the worst for accuracy.
The 1-5/16" group I shot with my .44 at 200 yards was with 40 reloads on the brass, it has now reached 46 reloads. I just lost one case from a split at the crimp.
If you go back and look at what I found, it is not how much tension but it is how even the tension is from shot to shot. A little looser is OK as is tighter but don't mix loose and tight. What you feel when you seat is what counts, that boolit that slipped in will not shoot to the same place as the one that took more pressure to seat. You are talking 10" at 50 meters between them.

[Char-Gar]

I use cast bullets on the soft side with ACWW being the hardest. I have Lyman 310 expanders in .452 and .454. Brass springback will vary from .0005 to .0015 depending on whatever it depends on. No being too fussy I use the .452 expander for .452 bullets and the .454 expander for .454 bullets. With a reasonable crimp bullets stay put, and they are no squeezed down by the case. This rather simple approach seems to work for me.

[Changeling]

Hi Jim. all this brass will be new (initally). From what you say, this is the same procedure for rifles in competition shooting. So I see exactly what you are talking about.
I'll still have to check out the expander button size in these Redding steel dies. I just don't trust any of the manufactuers anymore to do things right after some of my experiences!
Even Pressure, if I have a problem I'll let you know. I have to pull the expander button out, to check actual sise and consistency.

Thanks to Jim and everyone else for there input.



Do NOT anneal revolver brass for any reason. You will be sorry. As brass is used more it gets more accurate. Tension seems to even out. New brass is the worst for accuracy.
The 1-5/16" group I shot with my .44 at 200 yards was with 40 reloads on the brass, it has now reached 46 reloads. I just lost one case from a split at the crimp.
If you go back and look at what I found, it is not how much tension but it is how even the tension is from shot to shot. A little looser is OK as is tighter but don't mix loose and tight. What you feel when you seat is what counts, that boolit that slipped in will not shoot to the same place as the one that took more pressure to seat. You are talking 10" at 50 meters between them.

[44man]

All my tests with new brass was eye opening. Not with rifle brass, just the revolver.
Yet BR shooters sort brass by POI and use the same cases for every shoot. They load at the bench for every relay. Same with a revolver. You can sort by POI and keep those for groups.
Come and load with my seating pressure measurements and you should find it works.
All I have is yours and I am always here.

[Changeling]

Thanks Jim.
I started checking out some brass check prices today, WOW! It seems incrediable what they are asking for them. I was going to get Hornady like Veral told me to always get, but I thought I would ask a question about the "Gator" gas checks in copper, are they as good as the Hornady checks for revolvers? These are for the LEE C452-300-RF.

Oh, a woman called me and said she got my phone number from another woman I delt with at a yard sale where I bought a RCBS mold a couple weeks ago. She wanted to know if I was interested in buying something called Federal primers, yes, I went to her house and she had 1000 Federal Mag Large "rifle primers" like brand new in the box.
She wanted $5.00, I gave here $10.00. She was a very nice lady.

That means I now have more than I'll ever use up in LR Magnum, so if you need any just let me know.

Take care my friend.