I am convinced - BH209 works.

[Nobade]

Thanks to Johnson1942's urging I broke down and spent the big bucks for a can of Blackhorn 209, and gave it a try today. Rifle is a Rem700ML with a 35 caliber barrel, modified to take 32 ACP cases to carry the primers. Boolits are from a Lee mould I recut, 218grain slicks, .341" and paper patched to .349".

Not knowing what to expect, I started with 50gr. by volume of BH209. Lousy accuracy, sounded hollow and smelled bad. Tried 60gr. That worked a lot better, about 2 MOA and 1750 fps. Then went to 65gr. Wow! 1825 fps, and 15 rounds inside of a quarter at 100 yds. Just one big hole! I never once had to wipe the bore, every round felt like the previous one, and pretty impressive amount of power from such a small bore muzzleloader.

The only thing is, it broke the rifle. Those 700MLs are designed for percussion caps and the only thing holding the bolt in is a screw on the side. By using cartridge cases, I now have bolt thrust. This had never been a problem in the past using black powder, but I also never got it up above 1400 fps before accuracy went away. This powder is so much more powerful and keeps getting more powerful as you add more, unlike black where you run into a point where more doesn't do anything. I am going to have to repair the screw, bolt, and the chunk of stock it broke out when the bolt handle hit it. But man did it shoot good! I think I'll convert some sort of break open 209 style muzzleloader into a 35 cal, just so I can use this same mould - it's way more fun to shoot all day with a 35 than it is with a 50!

-Nobade

[ghh3rd]

I like that powder too. I'm glad you found something that works so well in your rifle -- sorry it damaged it though. It's sort of tantalizing getting a group like that and not being to use the 'holy grail' load.

[johnson1942]

thanks for the post. blackhorn 209 is 15 percent stronger than black. i uses it in all my muzzleloaders. but of course i cut back the charge from what black would be by volume. my son has a inline and we can get a 250 .45 pistol bullet going out of a sabot 2200 ft per sec. it is as accurate as black and may be even more so. i even have a .45 traditional roundball gaun with a 34 in. barrel that has a drum and i shoot 60 grains behind the patched ball. it has a mag spark 209 primer system. it drive tacks. what i like about the powder is it is really clean and very very consistant. it is very hard in the kernals like the black so when useing the ram rod it always compacts about the same. pyrodex is so spongy it is hard to get the same pressure on the powder every time. i can tell that as the weight of the bullet goes up so does the pressure. thats why im not afraid to shoot 60 grains of it in the .45 roundball gun. when it come to my .50 and the 686 grain bullet i have to be careful as not to overload it. i just shoot 70 grains of the 209 powder behind it and i can tell the pressure is alot greater. its all it needs to shoot even to 500 yards. my new .45 that shoots a 330 grain pp bullet uses 60 grains of the 209 powder. as mentioned above i go alot by the sound of the report. if it sound dead, its not enough and if it cracks too much its too much. thanks for the post. its a real good powder.

[Nobade]

Yep, I was quite surprised how much it needed to work right. I figured a 35 cal. should be around 40 - 50 gr, but that was way too low. at 60 there was a lot of vertical and at 65 it drove tacks. I usually use about 50gr. of regular black powder in it. Probably was the bullet alloy I was using, mostly stick - on wheelweights I think. A bit harder than pure lead, so must have taken more pressure to bump it. The wild thing is, it does bump. They sure have achieved something getting a smokeless (mostly) powder to do that. Another thing was the wads - I started out using a card wad under the bullet, then tried it without to see what happened. The thing shot better without the wad! Can't beat that - dump in powder, seat bullet, and shoot. Plus being able to fire 40 rounds and never have to wipe. That's something new!

-Nobade

[Nobade]

How much is a # of Swiss (locally) and how much is a can of BH209 (locally)? Again, how much is a can of 777, and realize that it likely will require wiping between shots.


I cheat on that. The BH209 cost me $32.95 + tax, and I can make about 25 pounds of BP for the same price. Of course I don't count my labor since it's a hobby, right? Ha!

-Nobade

[johnson1942]

what i really like as you stated is how clean it is. coupled that with the extreem accracy im really addicted to the 209 powder. its really fun to shoot shoot and shoot and not have to clean.

[garbear]

I used it in my omega when I first bought it. Bh209 is great. I have started using pyrodex due to the fact it is cheaper and easier to find. My local store said they are going to offer it. I'm going back the bh209 for my inline once it is back in stock.
Garbear

[johnson1942]

garbear, thanks, i more sold on 209 every time i use it.

[nekshot]

Nobade, your shooting sounds like a fine whitetail rig within 150 yards. I never messed with BH kinda thought it was yuppy powder for the wannabes. Felt like a real mountain man when I could actually say all I shoot is "real" black powder and drink my diet Dr Pepper with a tree trunk under my arm! What would BH do in a 30-40 or 303 Brit?

[johnson1942]

it would be clean as other smokeless powders and the power is just 15 percent stronger than real black. i suspect it would be great from the right cast bullet. i use it in 2 45/70/s and love it.

[Kylongrifle]

Ive been wanting to try it for my encore but haven't ran out dirty 777 yet..

[Nobade]

Nobade, your shooting sounds like a fine whitetail rig within 150 yards. I never messed with BH kinda thought it was yuppy powder for the wannabes. Felt like a real mountain man when I could actually say all I shoot is "real" black powder and drink my diet Dr Pepper with a tree trunk under my arm! What would BH do in a 30-40 or 303 Brit?

Should work real well. The Blackhorn web site has data for the 30-30, shows a 170gr. going 1750 fps (IIRC) so not terribly much slower than a full smokeless load.

From what I am seeing, it should work in darn near any metallic cartridge. I am surprised the preppers and such haven't grabbed on to it yet since it is still available and should work to load anything.

You're right about a whitetail rig. The expansion on those nearly pure lead boolits was pretty amazing, they turned inside out but didn't lose much weight. Plus it's not terribly far behind what a 35 remington does for ballistics.

-Nobade

[nekshot]

darn, another sunday stroll on the forum now demands a purchase of BH. Well, it could be worse like buying a bunch of lottery tickets!!, at least I get to expand my information banks!

[Fishman]

Anybody shooting this powder in a Ruger Old Army? It sounds like it might be interesting to try if it is safe to use.

[Screwbolts]

Noblabe, is your .35 barrel set up to use the stock Rem Breach plug that has been modified with to except the 32 acp case?

Your 700 bolt can be easily modified to hold 209 primers just like a savage bolt. I have done 9 of them so far.

Your current breach plug can also be modified to use replaceable vent liners just like the savage plugs,

This will light BH209 100% of the time and takes all the pressure off the bolt.

Further more, If your barrel was made for smokeless cartridges then you could also use that with the savage type mods done to your bolt and plug.

BH209 is close to smokeless as it is, just more pricy.

Ken

[Nobade]

No, it has a different breech plug in it that I made. Also modded the bolt with a screw in bolt face and a firing pin.

The next attempt is going to be to make a breech plug that takes 209 primers, and another bolt head that works like the Savage and see how that works. I need to get another screw from Remington and glue the broken piece of stock back together but it will live again. No worries about the barrel, it's a normal 35 caliber cartridge rifle tube.

-Nobade

[OverMax]

Glad someone's buying it. $32.00 a half pound. My pockets aren't that deep. That's $65.00 a lb. OUCH!! ~~~Hey does Western Powder Company sell stock?

[johnson1942]

fishman, if you have a cartridge cylinder and shoot .45 pistol cartridges in your ruger it will be a perfect powder for you , but as stated the blackpowder primers wont set it off. i have heard your ruger shooting cartridges in it is a tack driver, better than a lot of handguns that are first made for catridges.

[johnson1942]

overmax, yes it is expensive but you go by volume for black horn 209 powder and it is lighter than black powder. also it is a very firm powder, but again light. also you use 15 percent less than black. that evens the price out a little. my canister of black horn 209 last that way better than thought. a shooter from wyoming close to me buys it in the bulk, and then you really can bring the price down. im over 70 and headed for 80 and ive frankly had enough of cleaning between shots, i want to shoot at this stage of my life and clean when im done. i can with 209 powder. i havent forsaken my guns, i just want to enjoy them.

[OverMax]

Johnson 1942 I understand where your coming from. 69 here.
So you measure by volume. That is the usual way for nearly all store bought B/powders anyway. Requiring a reduction of about (15%) so its measured exactly as triple 777 would be. The only difference between B/H and triple 777 is product weight and not having to swab B/H after every couple shots. The additional cost between the two (25.99 verses 65.00) just for the benefit of a self cleaning powder seems more like excessively priced Old timer. But it is what it is. So long as your happy with B/H's use. Why not. At our age doing less and enjoying more is a plus when it comes to our hobby's. Take care Sir

[Fishman]

fishman, if you have a cartridge cylinder and shoot .45 pistol cartridges in your ruger it will be a perfect powder for you , but as stated the blackpowder primers wont set it off. i have heard your ruger shooting cartridges in it is a tack driver, better than a lot of handguns that are first made for catridges.

Well there goes that idea. :)

[scrubber]

Agreed, BH209 is worth every red cent. Equal or better accuracy than all other alternatives and none of the headaches ( i. e. Powder ring, drawing moisture, aggressive corrosion, special cleaning solvents). Reminds me I need to get some more!

[rbstern]

BH209 is some sort of miracle. I'm just finishing up my first pound of it, will need another for ML season in October. Used to shoot Pyrodex, could never go back to it. BH209 is just too accurate and easy to use.

As scrubber said, worth every red cent.

[johnson1942]

im happy that you guys came forward about the 209 powder. i agree its worth every penny. even in my 2 45/70/s. i will repeat what rbstern said, is just too accurate and easy to use and worth every red cent.

[Nobade]

So, last night I see that writeup about the new Remington 700 ultimate muzzleloader. They show pictures of the wonderful new breechplug, and dang if that isn't almost identical to what I made (to use 32 acp cases) for my old 700ML. I guess my design has some merit. Just need to use it in a locked breech gun and not that silly old design. Which BTW I repaired the broken stock, made a new screw to hold the bolt in, and a new breech plug to use 209 primers. Today I make a new firing pin because the 1/16" one I was using pierces the 209 primers. Needs to be bigger and flatter. But I ought to be able to shoot it next weekend if the weather holds. Supposed to be 50 mph wind this weekend so I think I'll stay home.

That new Remington design is kind of cool though, if they end up selling those breech plugs separately it will be easy to build a muzzleloader barrel for a regular 700 and make it a switch barrel rig for all hunting seasons.

-Nobade

[C. Latch]

Where was this writeup on a new remington 700 muzzleloader?

I'm quite content with my Savage but I'd like to see the new remington anyway.

[johnson1942]

i should tell every one about the inline i had built for my young son. smokeless muzzle loader inc. puts douglas barrels on breakaction guns. mine was a buffalo classic h and r 45/70. they put a 1/32 twist .50 cal barrel on it and we did the synthetic stock also. they also put a scope mount on the barrel. they recommend smokeless powder behind a sabot that holds a .451 250 grain pistol bullet. well no matter is they are built for smokeless im still nervous about the idea of smokeless. so we use blackhorn 209 powder and still get the same ft. per sec. as you would with smoke less. we got that bullet going 2200 ft. per sec. and it is one hole accurate at 100 yards and wouldnt be afraid to do a 300 yard shot. i also tried some 500 grain paperpatch bullets in it with a lot less 209 powder, about 80 grains, and they shot in perfect alignment but 6 inches lower a 100 yards. any more powder behind that .50 500 grain bullet and the recoil was too much. my son prefers the sabot and .45 bullet but if he hunts with his big brother in colorado when he gets older he will have to use a .50 bullet for elk and it is all set up for paperpatch also. i fee a lot more safe with the 209 powder in his gun rather than true smokeless and it shoots the same. i have a real nice long tom i picked up for 90 dollars years ago and have been thinking of s.m.l. inc. putting a 36 inch .45 cal 1/18 twist barrel on it. also then a 12 power scope. i would shoot a 500 grain bullet at 1000 yards for fun. wouldnt fit in to any contest catagory at alliance, ne. but it would be fun and thats what im into with my guns. i could use the tang on this old long tom to put a soule sight on it and it may qualify for long range muzzle loader then.

[Nobade]

Where was this writeup on a new remington 700 muzzleloader?

I'm quite content with my Savage but I'd like to see the new remington anyway.

http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2014/04/new-remington-700-high-velocity-ultimate-muzzleloader/

-Nobade

[C. Latch]

http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2014/04/new-remington-700-high-velocity-ultimate-muzzleloader/

-Nobade

Hmm. Neat, but pricey.

I wonder why they didn't rate it for smokeless powders, like the Savage? My Savage can beat the claimed velocities for the Remington pretty easily.