Custom 1911

[Arisaka99]

I know we have some gunsmiths and 1911 aficionados on the board, and I had a question for you guys. My dad had mentioned to me that he wants a 1911 one day, and I would love to either have a custom one made, or customize a factory gun. What am I looking at spending, and do you guys have any advice as to which route would be better? I'm not looking to drop 2k into it, but I'd like it to be pretty decent. It'll end up being full size, that's about all I know, with some real nice wood stocks.

[Cmm_3940]

Dropping 2K in a 1911 is easy.

I have a couple from Les Baer Custom, which I love, but they start around $1800.

http://lesbaer.com/prices.html

Prices go up, way up, from there, see Wilson Combat, Ed Brown, etc.

If you want something really nice, less expensive, but not quite custom, look at Kimber. Here's a nice one, near the top of their line, they also have less expensive ones.

http://www.kimberamerica.com/1911/gold-match-ii/gold-match-ii

[EdS]

I "vote" for Wilson. They are absolutely great to work with if you have any problems, and their pistols are excellent in every way. -Ed

[Green Frog]

Chris,

To really answer this question you have to define "custom" as it applies to you (and your dad.) Do you want to simply dress it up a little to enhance pride of ownership or do you have a specific purpose in mind? If you just want a nice reliable gun, get any of the first tier factory guns (Colt, Kimber, Ruger, Remington, S&W, Springfield, etc) and have a gunsmith do a street action job on it and add whatever bells and whistles you like... at a cost within your proposed budget. If you have a specific application for the gun, that information is needed as it will drive the direction of the discussion. :coffeecom

Froggie

[Arisaka99]

It would be just a shooter, but I want it to look nice. I was thinking about possibly a factory gun that has been upgraded aesthetically, as well as mechanically and accuracy. I don't know a whole ton about 1911's, but I figure a new trigger, smooth as possible, combat night sights, etc. Just some performance upgrades that also look nice.


I've heard good things about RIA too, what do y'all think of them?

[Love Life]

Get a Colt because...well...it's a Colt. A new or like new Colt Government model can be had for $1,000 or less if you look around long enough. Then send it to a reputable smith (Tussy Custom and Gene Shuey are up the road from me) and drop another $500 to $800 into it if you feel the need to and call it done.

Really though, the stock Colt will shoot fine unaltered and at the end of the day it is a Colt.

Just my .27 (.02 adjust for inflation).

[Jupiter7]

Having some minor stuff done to a quality production gun is a decent alternative and let's you spread the cost out. The only problems I see are voiding factory warranty. I'd recommend a Springfield Armory Mil-spec($600 roughly) as a base and sending it to the Springfield Armory Custom Shop, work covered under factory warranty and one of in not the best custom shop.
A lot of the big name 1911 builders and gunsmiths got their start there(I believe Baer ran SACS for some time).

If warranty is no worry, I'd recommend the shop below, he went from Springfield Custom then to Baer and now on his own with help, top notch.

Alchemy Custom Weaponry
http://1911doctor.com/#2810

[woody13]

I have a Springfield as well as a Rock Island and love them both. I have customized my Rock because its more of a shooter for me. Though the price is not bad on a Springfield for around $700.00 and they are solid plus been around for a long time. Though I am waiting on the Rock to come back from Cerakote it has been easy to find parts and I have added Wilson products through Midway since it is what I like. What your dad will use it for and the feel of what he will want will be more to him and his needs. I also would say look at a few they make. The 2011 Rock Island is a very nice gun and is a very different configuration with the rail underneath but comes outfitted with a lot of features. The Citadel is made by Rock Island as well and comes in around $500.00 with a smooth adjustable trigger, nicer trigger, beaver tail grip and ambi safety. That will be the next one I purchase next. The Rock Island tactical is outfitted as well with these features and a bit more. Now this is mostly what I like and I do own other 1911's as well and have made a few and am building two now from %80 receivers. So why do I shoot the Rock Islands and use them more? Well they are easy on the pocket book great to buy parts for take a pounding and I am not banging up a $2,000.00 dollar gun but for about $1,000.00 or less at times I have a custom gun that I was able to tinker with and get what I wanted. Also the big kicker is I cast and reload and shoot that out of these guns saving my other guns for my copper bullets so I shoot them more and have a ton of fun....

[Green Frog]

It would be just a shooter, but I want it to look nice. I was thinking about possibly a factory gun that has been upgraded aesthetically, as well as mechanically and accuracy. I don't know a whole ton about 1911's, but I figure a new trigger, smooth as possible, combat night sights, etc. Just some performance upgrades that also look nice.


I've heard good things about RIA too, what do y'all think of them?


First, keep in mind that virtually any money spent on "custom upgrades" is lost forever except for its utility to you. Second, the more expensive the base gun, the more money you lose because of these upgrades. Third, few people are going to want the same features you do (unless you are a famous shooter) so they will probably use your changes to beat you down on the price.

SOOOOOO... if you want to build an individualized custom gun, buy a good quality base gun but don't pay a lot of money for the name on the slide. If possible, get one that is as close to what you want as possible... some of the manufacturers offer "custom" features as factory options, features like "combat sights" (or adjustables if that's your pleasure) flared mag wells, relieved ejection ports, beavertail grip safeties, etc, etc. Not only do these features cost you money to add post factory, but they will also require a refinish at additional cost. Also, some of the manufacturers offer different length triggers to give you the pull length you want and factory throating of the chamber so the gun will feed the various SWC loads many of us like to load and shoot. Then if you want to add a couple of finishing touches like extended and/or ambidextrous slide stops and safeties and of course fancy grips, that becomes a DIY proposition.

The second alternative to all this is to buy the basic RIA model of your choice, shoot it for a season, then make a list of what you (or in this case, your dad) would like to have done to it next Winter to really make it the gun you want. In the end, this might be your cheapest and most effective strategy, and you would have a better idea of which features work for the purpose you plan and which are a waste of time and money.

Froggie

[Changeling]

Actually I have been looking at the 1911's also. If you count up what you get, what you want to change or add, modifications you would like to make, a Les Baer or even a Wilson would be a lot better investment.
They come as a total package almost with all the goodies anyone could envision, TOP notch everything. Accuracy gurantee.

One can even find used ones (Like NEW) for less than retail. You just have to decide what model you want and look around.

Good luck.

[tigweldit]

My vote is for a Colt Gold Cup. The two I have had for the past 20+ years have been a joy to own. They both love Lyman #452460 200 grain boolits and Bullseye powder with WW primers. A nice target load that is accurate and won't beat up you or your gun. Gold Cups hold their value quite well in the stock configuration, and are a great platform if you decide to build a race gun. Whatever way you decide to go, you can't loose, because your dad will always know where that gun came from, and he'll love it no matter what. Good luck and have fun!

[ole 5 hole group]

For the money, you can't do better than a Les Baer for accuracy & reliability but if extreme accuracy isn't a deciding factor for you, then any 1911 starting with the Ruger 1911 will probably be reliable with acceptable accuracy for most.

Crazy John has Baer's in stock - http://www.proload.com/

[MtGun44]

Buy a Dan Wesson and have his initials engraved on the rear side of the slide by the safety notch.

These are extremely high quality hand built guns, every bit the equal of the Baer, Wilson and
other $3K+ guns for $1500-1800.

I have two Wilson true custom guns and the two DWs are every bit the equal.

Bi

[Arisaka99]

Thanks for the input guys. I really am not too familiar with all the 1911 manufacturers, except the big ones, I know a lot of the named, and have heard they're good, but never seen, shot, or handled any. I've shot a kimber, it was better than I could shoot, but that's about the extent of my 1911 experience. A buddy has a Para single stack and loves it. Any opinions on them?

[Jupiter7]

Thanks for the input guys. I really am not too familiar with all the 1911 manufacturers, except the big ones, I know a lot of the named, and have heard they're good, but never seen, shot, or handled any. I've shot a kimber, it was better than I could shoot, but that's about the extent of my 1911 experience. A buddy has a Para single stack and loves it. Any opinions on them?

Para is at the bottom of the list in my opinion. Kimber ain't much better. As above Dan Wesson makes great production guns. I've lusted after a RZ-10 for some time.

[Love Life]

Only one of the above has a pony on it...

[69daytona]

I love my dan wesson cbob, have been thinking of sending it off for engraving since the slide is so clean it is perfect for engraving, plus it is just a very well built gun, you won't regret getting a dan wesson.

[prsman23]

Ruger SR-1911. Good gun. Well under a grand and you can dump some money in it and have something a little more custom than a stock ruger with the money you saved.

[DougGuy]

Many years ago I used to say "you can build better than you can buy" and it was true. Since then, the world has exploded with 1911s in every tier of quality, and expense. There are more ways now to arrive at a nice 1911 than there ever has been.

The one bottom line common denominator, for a factory made gun, the Colt will hold it's value longer and better than any of them.

When you get to middle of the road to upper end quality and price, the market is flooded with models that cost more than the Colt, and are nice guns, built better and function better, but they don't have that rampant pony on the side of the slide and their value shows it.

My vote would be a really nice Colt, maybe even a vintage model, or save some $$ and get the Ruger, and run it through a reputable smith and let them put their custom touches on it.

[slughammer]

In my experience when you buy a 1911 what you are paying for is a frame and a slide. If you get lucky the barrel will fit properly and provide acceptable accuracy. A $700 1911 can cost you another $400 and an $1100 1911 can also cost you another $400. There is no accuracy guarantee until you buy a gun that has a guarantee. (Is a 4" guarantee from the factory good enough for a $700 gun?). A new barrel and bushing fitted properly is going to set you back $300-$400

If you want nice adjustable target sights, don't buy a mil spec or other fixed sight gun; buy one machined for target sights, it's cheaper to buy with the machine work up front.

One thing to watch for is the quality of the hammer and sear. Good heat treated steel is not that common on the less costly guns. I bought a SA 9mm 1911 and when I went to work on the hammer engagement, I had my stones ready, but picked up a file from my bench, took the material off with 2 swipes. What junk! There is no value or safety doing a trigger job on cheap MIM parts. I ended up installing a much better hammer and sear I had in my stuff. Just another cost you should be prepared for from a "factory" gun.

ETA I don't want to sound negative, just want to give advice to spend it up front. A solid gun that will consistently shoot 2" at 25 yards should be able to do so for the next 100,000 rounds. Money well spent now will put those shots right where the sights were pointed.

[C. Latch]

Once upon a time I wanted a premium 1911 and din't want to spend the money all at once, so I bought several Springfield 1911s, picked one to play with, and spent a lot of money putting tool-steel aftermarket parts in it. When it was all said and done, I had a very reliable and very shootable (but not very accurate) pistol that was worth less than half of the sum of the cost of its parts, which, incidentally, would have, at the time, pretty much paid for a Rock River Arms 1911, and would have paid for most of a Wilson CQB.

If I could do it over, I would have bought the RRA; since they have long since stopped production of 1911s, if I had the chance today to spend the same money, I'd head straight for Wilson, Baer, Brown, or another similar manufacturer, and wouldn't blink at their prices.

[jmsj]

Arisaka99,
I have seen and shot a couple of Springfield Range Officers. For the money ($750-$800) I think they are the best value I have seen.

[MtGun44]

After decades of building some good guns and many crummy guns, "the pony" isn't much
of an indicator of quality. I have a number of Colts and like the older ones, and would
buy one today - but ONLY on inspection of the specific example - the name is NOT an
indicator of quality today. If it says Colt - check and see if that particular gun is "right",
many are, some are not.

IMO older Kimbers were/are really great but a bit ordinary guns. The Dan Wessons are
all standouts, highest quality across the board and only slightly above the Kimber,
Colt and such - which are dramatically more pedestrian guns. I have a favorite Kimber
Custom Classic that has around 50-60K rounds thru it, wonderful gun and has been
extremely reliable, but not as nicely fitted and finished or as accurate as the DWs or
Wilsons.

I call my DWs the equals of my Wilson guns, both are spectacularly well done 1911s,
IMO - top of the heap.

Bill

[Love Life]

I never implied quality when I mentioned getting a Colt.

[wv109323]

The RIA basic can be found for under $400. It is made in the Philippines. Actually it is a lot of gun for the money. It is a shooter and very basic. You would probably want trigger work and you already have said night sights. The trouble with buying a firearm and having it modified is that most good smiths have an extended backlog. So your pistol is out of your hands for long periods of time. You would probably never recoup your investment of aftermarket parts and labor with a RIA. RIA also has an excellent warranty.
Next up the line is the Ruger,Remington and Springfield Armory. These are $650 to 850. I like the SA Range Officer. I have read several times that accuracy is very good and it has adjustable sights although not night sights. You could replace the factory sights with your choice of aftermarket sights. There is also a RO available in 9mm if that floats your boat.
Next is a Colt,Dan Wesson,Kimber,SA TRP and tons more. The Colt has good steel parts and the name but it is just a basic 1911. Kimber quality has reputation problems. They knowingly put out some pistols with inferior parts but some were very fine pistols. Dan Wesson has a good reputation as I understand it.
Then you get into the custom Les Bauer,Wilson and who knows what else. Basically these are all hand built pistols. You can order exactly what you want. Top of the line parts are used and accuracy is excellent. Most people don't have the skills to fully use the accuracy of such pistols. You just don't need an accuracy guarantee of 1 1/2" at 50 yards when you shoot a cardboard target a 6 yards. The "Alpha" scoring area is like 8" X10". Also what is funny to me is they will spend $3000 on a pistol and shoot steel cased cheap ammo. Go figure. The problem with a highly custom pistol is that what is "all the bells and whistles" of today are outdated and worthless in five years.
Two pistols I would not buy is the Colt Gold Cup and an Auto Ordinance. The Colt Gold Cup is no more accurate than the basic Government Model. The rear sight has a history of falling off. The old Auto Ordinance were very inconsistent. I will also add the AMT. They used non-standard parts. My opinion.
I would find as close to what I wanted and try not to have modifications done. Modifications are slow and expensive unless you do them yourself. The worst pistol would shoot around 4" at 25 yards. Most will shoot 2-2 1/2" at 25. The best will be from 3/4 to 1 1/2" at 25 yards.

[Green Frog]

So, we're all in agreement then, right? :brokenima

For the OP, I trust that by now you have determined that there is no "right answer" to your question. The very term "custom" implies individuality, and when you talk about custom guns, the discussion rises (or sinks? ;) ) to a whole different level. The thing about customization is that you need to have some idea of the purpose(s) for which it is being done or else you will just throw away a lot of money and in the end have little to show for it. So, my free advice (which is worth every penny you are paying me for it :roll:) is to first read all of the advice you have gotten :coffee com and decide out for yourself which, if any, sounds good. Then buy a good quality basic gun and shoot it enough (at least a couple of hundred rounds preferably) to determine what you like about it and what you want to improve. Finally, make your changes one or two at a time and let the gun tell you what it needs. :Fire:

Or drop a couple of thousand on a gun everyone "tells" you is the best gun and leave it in the safe. :mrgreen:

Froggie

[Dan Cash]

Opinions on 1911s are like... well you know, but since I have one, here it is. Buy an older Kimber or Sieries 70 Colt. One of the Colt commerative pistols can be a good choice as well. Install a Commander style hammer if it is a Colt and have a goood trigger job done if needed, slap some pretty grips on the gun and shoot it. Spend the rest of your money on ammo or components. Unless you are going to shoot Bullseye matches, most 1911s will shoot better than you can and tinkering more than mentioned above will cause you grief down the line.

[captaint]

I have 2 Dan Wesson 1911's. Also have one of the other nicer 1911's. Spend what you will, you will not get a better, more accurate, well crafted 1911 than the Dan Wessons. That's just the way it is.... Mike

[Love Life]

Dan Wesson doesn't have a pony on it...

[MtGun44]

So what? That pony means nothing to people that know 1911s. I have Colts and DWs,
the DWs are far better examples.

Putting DW after Colt and anywhere near Kimber in that list a couple posts above means
that the poster has not handled any DWs, Colts or Kimbers recently.

Captaint is right on, although I do say that the higher cost custom guns are the
equal of the DWs - just for 2X the money.

Bill

[Love Life]

The Pony means everything. We can argue it all day long if you want as I do have the time.

Pick a 1911 and have fun. I told you what I would pick, and why. In the standard factory fodder, mid-grade pool, a Colt is all I would buy. If I HAD to have a $2,000 1911 then I would buy a Colt and send it to Tussey.

However; many options have been put forth, and it would be hard to go wrong with any of them. Heck, I've been eyeballing the RIA 10mm quite hard lately.

[Jupiter7]

The Pony means everything. We can argue it all day long if you want as I do have the time.

Pick a 1911 and have fun. I told you what I would pick, and why. In the standard factory fodder, mid-grade pool, a Colt is all I would buy. If I HAD to have a $2,000 1911 then I would buy a Colt and send it to Tussey.

However; many options have been put forth, and it would be hard to go wrong with any of them.
Heck, I've been eyeballing the RIA 10mm quite hard lately.

I'd do some hard research on the RIA 10mm. I'd been looking hard at it, but everytime I get close to buying it I see another report of some issue. Of course RIA fixes it but who wants to send a gun in for warranty work.

There are two 10mm 1911's on my radar of good quality that I can afford($1350 street price). The new STI Nitro 10( not thrilled about name) and the Dan wesson Razorback RZ-10(not hot about stainless). After a trip to the CMP in May, the hunt begins for the 10mm 1911 I've been lusting for. On a side note, DW did make a recent batch of RZ-10's in black duty coat.

To the average Joe, the Colt pony counts. Those in know will pay more for quality. I won't own a colt due to their overprice to quality ratio.

[Love Life]

I'd do some hard research on the RIA 10mm. I'd been looking hard at it, but everytime I get close to buying it I see another report of some issue. Of course RIA fixes it but who wants to send a gun in for warranty work.

Yeah, I have noticed that as well. I reckon for under $600.00 it may be worth it.


There are two 10mm 1911's on my radar of good quality that I can afford($1350 street price). The new STI Nitro 10( not thrilled about name) and the Dan wesson Razorback RZ-10(not hot about stainless). After a trip to the CMP in May, the hunt begins for the 10mm 1911 I've been lusting for. On a side note, DW did make a recent batch of RZ-10's in black duty coat.

I've heard nothing but good things about the RZ-10's. I thought they were more that $1,300.00?

To the average Joe, the Colt pony counts. Those in know will pay more for quality. I won't own a colt due to their overprice to quality ratio.

Only the average Joe, huh? The Colt pony counts because it is Colt. I can afford any 1911 I want, but I do snub my nose up at all the Kimbers, S&W, Baers, Brown's, and Wilson guns in the gun shops here. Will their fit and finish be exceptional? Yes. Will the function flawlessly? All but the kimber probably will. Will they all be accurate? Yes. Will they all be Colts? No...



My responses are in blue. IIRC the OP wasn't looking to spend DW money on a 1911.

[Jupiter7]

My responses are in blue. IIRC the OP wasn't looking to spend DW money on a 1911.

I agree, $1300 isn't in everyones budget or taste. I too can pretty much buy any 1911, but I've spent about $4k on a STI 2011 and beretta competition shotgun already this year. I think above $2k, your paying for a name and aesthetics. Personally I don't do 1911's with firing pin safeties so that knocks a bunch off the list for me. Only colt that interests me is a standard 70 series.

The fire at dan wesson in 2012 really made the prices jump. But I've seen new production rz10's going for around $1400 on gunbroker recently. As of now, I only own Springfields(4) and STI(1). I've had a quite a few others in the try an buy stages of learning what I like and need. Baer and Dan wesson have been on my list for a while.

[Love Life]

I have a well known and documented disease when it comes to that dang pony. It's actually quite horrible.

[MtGun44]

"The pony means everything" LOL! OK, whatever you say. :bigsmyl2:

Started with Colts before I knew anything about 1911s, after 35 yrs of shooting
in competition, and carrying a Colt Commander LW every day for many years
now, I like Colts OK, but recognize that they are a mere shadow of their
reputation much of the time. Do not dislike Colts, but it is sure not very
important in the mix as far as I am concerned. If you have to have the
Colt - then go with it, have fun. ;)

Bill

[Love Life]

"The pony means everything" LOL! OK, whatever you say. :bigsmyl2:

Started with Colts before I knew anything about 1911s, after 35 yrs of shooting
in competition, and carrying a Colt Commander LW every day for many years
now, I like Colts OK, but recognize that they are a mere shadow of their
reputation much of the time. Do not dislike Colts, but it is sure not very
important in the mix as far as I am concerned. If you have to have the
Colt - then go with it, have fun. ;)

Bill

Relax. I get it that Colt is a shadow of it's former self. I've mentioned it numerous times throughout this forum through the years. No reason to try to belittle me for my love and infatuation with the brand.

I know there are better made and fitted guns. I get it.

[Char-Gar]

When it comes to 1911 pistols, there are Colts and copies of Colts. Get a Colt, they are darn good as they come out of the box. Own it and shoot it a while before spending money to modify it. Most likely you will find out it does just fine the way it is. My Colt Government Model is box stock except for some ivory grips and a trigger with a stop in it.

[KYCaster]

When it comes to 1911 pistols, there are Colts and copies of Colts. Get a Colt, they are darn good as they come out of the box. Own it and shoot it a while before spending money to modify it. Most likely you will find out it does just fine the way it is. My Colt Government Model is box stock except for some ivory grips and a trigger with a stop in it.



Nice looking gun Char-Gar. I really like the ivory grips. This is a good example of a basic "custom" 1911. A trigger job to make it shootable and grips of your choice to make it pleasing to the eye.

The opposite end of the "custom" spectrum can be seen here: http://www.limcat.com/

There are lots of smiths who will build a 1911, but Johnny Lim makes it a work of art. You'll pay dearly for one of his guns though, $5K+ for one of them is not unusual.

My point is......If you've never owned a 1911, you have no way of knowing what "custom" features you would like to have on your gun. Take Char-Gar's Colt for instance.....I really like the looks of it. It would probably make a decent carry piece and I wouldn't be ashamed to show it off at the neighborhood BBQ........but.......20 rounds through it and I'd be bleeding! Without some radical Dremel tool alteration the 1911A1 grip safety chews up the knuckle on my thumb.

Have the frame altered for a beaver tail grip safety, cut the slide for low profile sights and replace the trigger, sear, disconnecter, hammer and your basic 1911A1 goes to $1600-1700 pretty quick.

I've been shooting action pistol games for a long time. Maybe as long as Bill....IDK.....doesn't really matter, but I've developed some strong opinions about suitable guns. So here's my unsolicited testimonial........if you want to buy a 1911 that will work 100% right out of the box and will enable you to shoot master class scores in IPSC/USPSA, IDPA or any other action pistol game, there are two companies you need to look at......Springfield Armory and STI.

Both of these companies offer guns in the $800 to $1300 range that should satisfy anyone's basic need. Add the desired sights and grips without having to alter the frame or slide and you'll have a gun anyone could be proud of.

Just one man's opinion.
Jerry