My new cannelure machine is on it's way!

[DukeInFlorida]

Chuckbuster (Kevin) just sent me pictures of the new cannelure machine he created for me. It's totally amazing. Has plenty of leverage, and does a slick job of putting a cannelure on any bullet, jacketed or otherwise. The bullet shown in the image #2 is one of the 45ACP > .500 S&W Mag (.500) bullets I sent along as samples. I also sent him my CH4D cannelure tool, so he could see what it's issues are, and also it's features.

The new tool is nothing like the CH4D version.

chuckbuster has documented the design, and can handle orders for these if you guys also want one. I'll let him discuss the pricing, etc.

I'm just tickled to death that I have a wonderful way to cannelure all my bullets.

Your direct path to chuckbuster is here:
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/member.php?10754-chuckbuster

Here are the pictures:
Image #1 (http://sebagosales.com/castboolits/new_cannelure_machine001.jpg)

Image #2 (http://sebagosales.com/castboolits/new_cannelure_machine002.jpg)

Image #3 (http://sebagosales.com/castboolits/new_cannelure_machine003.jpg)

Image #4 (http://sebagosales.com/castboolits/new_cannelure_machine004.jpg)

Image #5 (http://sebagosales.com/castboolits/new_cannelure_machine005.jpg)

Image #6 (http://sebagosales.com/castboolits/new_cannelure_machine006.jpg)

Image #7 (http://sebagosales.com/castboolits/new_cannelure_machine007.jpg)

[nicholst55]

An elegant approach to the problem! I like it!

[BT Sniper]

Yes it does look good. Hope the handle is big enough and comfortable for extended operations. Just the thought of turning those small handles makes my hands cramp.

[Guardian]

Duke,

What were the issues with the CH4D that were addressed in the design of this one?

I've been looking at cannelure tools lately and have no idea what the problems are.

That is a fine unit!

[DukeInFlorida]

The issue that BT Sniper refers to is the biggest issue with the CH4D design. The levers are too short. Someone once said, "Give me a long enough lever, and I can move the earth." Well, the crank handle on the CH4D version is too short, and requires that you grab the knurled knob with your fingers and turn really hard. If doing just a few bullets, no big deal. But, my production of swaged bullets has a typical batch size of HUNDREDS.

The other CH4D handle, the one that pulls the cannelure wheel into the bullet is also just too darn short. I've done things like stick a piece of steel tubing on the end of that handle, but that's not a solution.

Also, in use, I have found that the pivot for the rotating handle was wobbly in the CH4D design. I spend some time trying to fix that, but it was a poor match up of sizes and machining that cause it. It would have required machining a new part, which I don't have the ability to do here.

The final issue that exists with the CH4D design is the placement of the bullet in the device. The "bottom" of the bullet rests on a set screw to adjust the location of the cannelure. It requires some finger dexterity to get the bullet to sit in the right place on that set screw, while closing the lever handle.

The new design, as you can see, addresses all of those issues. Kevin tells me that the length of the levers is long enough that it's quite easy to set up, and operate.

He sent me some additional images, which I have added to my initial post. It gives some additional sense to the size of the device. He has a 12" steel rule and a 50 BMG bottle opener in the additional images. This thing is rugged, has amazing rollers for the bullet to roll on (easing the ability to roll the cannelure, they roll like glass), and has a LOT of leverage. I'm expecting to be able to make thousands of cannelures EFFORTLESSLY in every batch I make. Notice that the handle is even adjustable for length. Smaller bullets can have the handle adjusted shorter, so that you can crank them out faster. He's thought of everything.

BTW, the unit is for sale at $200 plus shipping. (Kevin just called me on the phone to report that.) I have no vested interest in the sale of these, other than being first in line to get one. Everything that chuckbuster has made for me has been first class. He's shipping it to me on Monday from Michigan, and as soon as it gets here, I will run some tests of the various pistol caliber bullets I make, and will give a field report. I can't wait!


Yes it does look good. Hope the handle is big enough and comfortable for extended operations. Just the thought of turning those small handles makes my hands cramp.


Duke,

What were the issues with the CH4D that were addressed in the design of this one?

I've been looking at cannelure tools lately and have no idea what the problems are.

That is a fine unit!

[chuckbuster]

Thanx Duke

First I want to be sure everyone understands I AM NOT the Machine GENIUS behind these, I'm just the marketing guy. Do to my work (Industrial Tool Sales) I happen to know some very talented individuals. The gentleman that I am working with on these is a "Old School" Tool & Die Guy, over 40 years (maybe closer to 50 now) in the trade. He is one of those increasingly rare individuals, at least in my experience, that you can give a picture or model of something to and say "Mike, can we make this better?" That is all it takes and this Cannelure Machine is proof. Handed him the "CH4D" tool and turned him loose. The pictures give you an idea of the result.

All work is guaranteed.

If interested contact me via PM.
Thanx for the interest
Kevin

[Bonz]

looks like a heavier duty model than the Corbin cannelure tool that I bought

[williamwaco]

That is one FINE device.

You feel like a kid in a candy shop?

[DukeInFlorida]

Yes...



That is one FINE device.

You feel like a kid in a candy shop?

[Guardian]

Duke,

Thanks for taking the time to write all that. That's exactly the type of information I wanted. I've purchased so many tools that just weren't quite what I was looking for. I appreciate details.

I'll be getting in line for one of these soon.

[DukeInFlorida]

While chatting with chuckbuster in the forum chat window last night, he apparently called his machinist, and asked the questions I was wondering about.

1) The current cannelure wheel is .060" wide. That is to say, it will create a .060 cannelure, plenty wide enough for any crimping.
2) Additional cannelure wheels are available, in almost any knurling configuration, or as a plain, curved edge wheel, to handle any type of additional knurling, rolling, expanding operation. These accessory wheels can be made up to .250" wide, and are a easy change over. It could allow you to even roll grease grooves into plain lead swaged bullets. Or, create a cross hatched pattern for you guys who use Xlox (White Label, the best!) or Alox (Lee's version) tumble lube on swaged bullets.

[Bonz]

Thanx Duke

First I want to be sure everyone understands I AM NOT the Machine GENIUS behind these, I'm just the marketing guy. Do to my work (Industrial Tool Sales) I happen to know some very talented individuals. The gentleman that I am working with on these is a "Old School" Tool & Die Guy, over 40 years (maybe closer to 50 now) in the trade. He is one of those increasingly rare individuals, at least in my experience, that you can give a picture or model of something to and say "Mike, can we make this better?" That is all it takes and this Cannelure Machine is proof. Handed him the "CH4D" tool and turned him loose. The pictures give you an idea of the result.

All work is guaranteed.

If interested contact me via PM.
Thanx for the interest
Kevin

PM Sent...

[chuckbuster]

I thought I should say, these are made to order, and being done on evenings and weekends so 3 weeks to ship after payment is received.
Thanx for understanding
Kevin

[Dryball]

Man...I want one! Now, who wants to buy my CH tool?

[Bonz]

I'm not only on the list, I'm on the schedule (3 weeks and counting). If everything works as expected, I will probably post my 'extremely slightly used' Corbin cannelure tool that I only used to cannelure about 50 BTsniper .500 bullets that a friend gave me and a handful of copper plated 45's just to see what it would do to the copper plating.

[bbailey7821]

I'm in too. Kevin is a straight shooter! :coffee:

[PbHurler]

Beautiful tool Duke.

You've got some massive leverage there.

[Bonz]

Hey DukeInFlorida - Has your new cannelure tool arrived at your house yet ? If so, and you have had a chance to cannelure some bullets, can you tell us what your impression is of this new tool ?

[chuckbuster]

I thought I should post a small update on this Tool. The one pictured was built for DukeinFlorida and was designed to do primarily handgun bullets as that is all he indicated would be needed. In talking with Bonz, Brian and a couple others it came to our attention that the tool AS PICTURED will not accommodate bullets longer than about an inch. The Engineering Department is reworking things so that most rifle length bullets will be workable along with the handgun length ones. Long story short everyone with a unit on order and all future orders will receive the New and Improved Model II. Sorry Duke, you are stuck with the Prototype! :) But hey now it is a One of a Kind, probably HUGE COLLECTOR value. Maybe you better just plan on climate controlled storage for it, never to be used and buy a Model II :) :)

Seriously guys, Don't worry about these changes, you WILL be pleased with the result. I just wanted to let everyone know that the tools you get will not look exactly like the pictures above. This is a new project and as you know sometimes all the details are not seen on the first try.
Any questions feel free to contact me via PM.
Thanx
Kevin

[Bonz]

works for me, thanks for the update Kevin

Just in case you were curious, here is a photo of my Corbin cannelure tool. They only 'hold' the bullet from one side and allow the other end of the bullet to protrude outside the frame if it's longer. I truly believe that holding each end of the bullet is a much better design.

103176

[DukeInFlorida]

I have not received the prototype yet. But, can't wait to get it in and try it.

I've been reloading, starting with rifle calibers, for more than 40 years now.

I have NEVER crimped rifle brass to hold onto the bullet. If the neck tension is done right, you do NOT have to crimp the bullet in place. In fact, with most tools, which try to do a roll crimp (unless you have a Lee Factory Crimp tool, which negates the need for a cannelure anyways), if you try to over crimp, you will collapse the neck and shoulder, causing a permanent defect. So, I never crimp the bullets in place, and try to even avoid bullets which have a cannelure.

The most streamlined bullets are those with a boat tail, a long nose (high number ogive), and no cannelure. The cannelure will add drag while the bullet is flying through the air. So, for me........... I'll stick with just the pistol bullets on the cannelure machine.

Color me happy.

[Lizard333]

Did I miss something? How much?? Im seriously considering doing this.

As far as putting a cannelure on rifle bullets, if the Military thinks they are needed, then I am not one to question. I personally crimp 223, and 30 cal, and 44 mag. My 30-30 rounds need a crimp, so that's what they get. My roll crimp lines up with either the grove on my 311041's, or the cannelure on my 170's.

To each their own.

[chuckbuster]

Lizard
Post 1 (with the pics), then 5,6, and 19 has some of the details on this machine. Please drop me a PM with any specific questions.
Thanx
Kevin

[chuckbuster]

Thanx for the Corbin Pic Bonz, I had looked at it on their web site after Duke's was finished to sort of compare them. Really have to say no comparison... No Stamped Frames or parts on our unit. All nice solid Tool Steel or Aerospace Grade Aluminum components with weldments or Bolts where appropriate, The Nose Guide/Stop does keep the bullet right where you want it. It has a tension spring on it to help maintain its adjustment. Lock Screws on other adjustments have brass "cushions" under the tip so the mating thread is protected, lots of other little hidden details that make it a very robust unit that should be good for years of use.
Have the first of the "Model II" units in production now.
Updates as available
Kevin

[PbHurler]

I have used a Corbin tool since the 90's, always gave yeoman service on both pistol & rifle bullets.

That said, I may be in line to upgrade to one of these finely machined tools.

The nose guide feature is a great idea; on the Corbin, I could / would sometimes get a "walk" of the bullet on the rollers if I used (initially) too heavy a bite.

Well thought out & beautiful work Kevin! 8-)

[Bonz]

Kevin - Let me know if you want to 'borrow' my Corbin cannelure tool. There is no doubt that your version will be a lot better, thats why I ordered & paid immediately ;-)


Thanx for the Corbin Pic Bonz, I had looked at it on their web site after Duke's was finished to sort of compare them. Really have to say no comparison... No Stamped Frames or parts on our unit. All nice solid Tool Steel or Aerospace Grade Aluminum components with weldments or Bolts where appropriate, The Nose Guide/Stop does keep the bullet right where you want it. It has a tension spring on it to help maintain its adjustment. Lock Screws on other adjustments have brass "cushions" under the tip so the mating thread is protected, lots of other little hidden details that make it a very robust unit that should be good for years of use.
Have the first of the "Model II" units in production now.
Updates as available
Kevin

[DukeInFlorida]

The new cannelure tool arrived today, and I have to say that it's even better than I thought it would be! I'm in the process of uploading a YouTube video which should be there by the time I am done with this post.

Set up is a breeze. The cannelure wheel has an opening around it, and it's quite easy to see where the wheel touches the swaged bullet. I had made up some 180 grain .40 S&W for a friend at the shooting club, and all they lacked was the cannelure. The overall length for loading .40's is 1.12". I set a swaged bullet in a case, and marked where the case mouth was with a sharpie. I placed the bullet on the rollers in the cannelure tool, and adjusted the stops to align the knurling wheel with the exact place I wanted the cannelure. Lowered the handle (extra length of the handle makes pressing down on the tool a breeze), and cranked three times. Re-checked the position of the knurl, and it was perfect. I made the video after running seven samples. After making the video, I ran off the rest of the parts in a matter of mere minutes. No aching fingers.

The depth of the knurl can be adjusted. You can put a very light cannelure on plated bullets, or a very deep cannelure on swaged bullets. However, I notice that the knurl wheel has a roller wheel next to it, making it all but impossible to over knurl (impossible to cut through the jacket) the bullet. Not sure if that was a design consideration, or just a fluke. But it sure makes sense to me.

The handle length is adjustable. I like it out at maximum length for the .500 Magnums, but I am sure it would work just as well as-is for the smaller bullets. The handle spins smooth as glass. It's the high quality machining that makes it so smooth. I'm not sure if there's any oil on that metal to metal surface, I will put some synthetic oil there just to make it last. It almost feels like a ball bearing type assembly, even though I know there's no bearing involved.

The knurl is crisp, clean, and deep. It's just the right width for crimping into. .40's, 45 acp's and other semi auto cartridges headspace on the case mouth, so it's important to not over crimp. I'd say this tool delivers the perfect amount.

I was easily able to run through a batch of swaged bullets very fast. Every one was perfect. My hands didn't hurt when I was done. I could run this tool all day long. Time to start making larger batch sizes!


http://youtu.be/b5jroj8-VMQ

[plus1hdcp]

Sweet looking set up Duke and nice video

[chuckbuster]

Thanx Duke
Remember everyone, I stand behind these units, and everything else provided 100 % but I am not the Machine/Engineering talent behind them. I happen to know some VERY TALENTED people. My friend that is making these would really rather just stay behind the scenes. I just don't want credit for anything I honestly am not capable of.
With that said...

All Friction Points are lubed with SUPER LUBE Synthetic Lubricant before shipping. Future units will look a little different as we have already updated the design to accommodate longer bullets, max part length will be around 1.3" maybe a little more. There will also be more adjustment possible in location of cannelure on the bullet for anyone that wants to do Rifle and Pistol Bullets. Should be able to really fine tune things to your individual needs.
Later
Kevin

[kayak1]

Chuckbuster,
It looks like a great tool! Any idea on the pricing?

[Dryball]

To heck with all you people. I was on the fence and now have done a cannon ball over the other side. Put me down for one! PM to follow

[chuckbuster]

Kayak1
The Tool itself is $200.00, fits nicely in a Medium Flat Rate Box with Extra insurance brings it to $215.00 pay by USPS Money Order. I will do PayPal but have to start adding the fee there, so $225.00 if by PayPal.
Thanx
Kevin

[Bonz]

Just had a great phone call with chuckbuster. He updated me on the changes to the kool cannelure tool. Sounds like I will be getting mine next week ;-)

He also sent me a couple of photo's to hold me over until it arrives…

104127

104128

I may just keep using my Corbins cannelure tool and put my new custom model for display purpose (ya, right)

[bbailey7821]

Wow! Impressive! [smilie=w:

[chuckbuster]

Another Teaser
Left to Right
69Gr. .22 Sierra Match, 160gr 6.5 HAWK RN, 168gr 7MM Sierra Match, 350gr .416 HAWK RN, .50 cal DukeInMaine Swaged
http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l48/CBMJake/DSC05330.jpg (http://s93.photobucket.com/user/CBMJake/media/DSC05330.jpg.html)

Demo Video Part 1

http://youtu.be/erFYwYVMW1U

[chuckbuster]

Demo Video Part 2

http://youtu.be/1xI0iGZuyRw

[bbailey7821]

Woo Hoo! Mine is on it's way, too![smilie=w:[smilie=w:

[DukeInFlorida]

Nice videos, Kev!

[kayak1]

Will this work for 38 special cases? (I am very interested in it).

[Bonz]

Just checked USPS tracking and mine will be here tomorrow ;-)

[chuckbuster]

Please send me a PM with exactly what you would like to/need to do.
Thanx
Kevin

Will this work for 38 special cases? (I am very interested in it).

[Bonz]

My NASA Cannelure tool arrived today, very impressive machine. Great Job Kevin !!! Now if I just had something that needed a cannelure, lol. Please hurry up Brian (BTsniper) with my 500 swage dies…

104667

[kayak1]

Please send me a PM with exactly what you would like to/need to do.
Thanx
Kevin

Kevin I sent you a PM (just about the same as what I am posting).

I would like to use the cannelure machine for 38 special cases with wadcutters. (Others might use it on 9's 40's and 45s on carry rounds also to prevent setback as they chamber and un-chamber the carry rounds).

I don't yet swage, but I have picked up a wadcutter mold that doesn't have a crimp grove. Putting a cannelure just bellow where the base of the wadcutter will sit will prevent setback.

The pictures might explain what I am after:
http://www.northeastshooters.com/vbulletin/threads/89320-case-quot-ridge-quot-(or-canyon-trench-I-guess)?p=1268512&viewfull=1#post1268512

[a.squibload]

My NASA Cannelure tool arrived today, very impressive machine. Great Job Kevin !!! Now if I just had something that needed a cannelure, lol. Please hurry up Brian (BTsniper) with my 500 swage dies…

Until your dies come in send that thing over here, I would be glad to check it out for you,
make sure it works OK...

:mrgreen:

[chuckbuster]

As it is now it will not work for what you need. I'll get with my friend that is doing the work and see what he thinks. I have an idea on how to make it work but need to see what he thinks. Will let you know asap. May be a couple days before I can get with him on it.
Kevin


Kevin I sent you a PM (just about the same as what I am posting).

I would like to use the cannelure machine for 38 special cases with wadcutters. (Others might use it on 9's 40's and 45s on carry rounds also to prevent setback as they chamber and un-chamber the carry rounds).

I don't yet swage, but I have picked up a wadcutter mold that doesn't have a crimp grove. Putting a cannelure just bellow where the base of the wadcutter will sit will prevent setback.

The pictures might explain what I am after:
http://www.northeastshooters.com/vbulletin/threads/89320-case-quot-ridge-quot-(or-canyon-trench-I-guess)?p=1268512&viewfull=1#post1268512

[kayak1]

No rush, one can wait a long time for a work of art line your cannelure machine!

[bbailey7821]

I may have to join the BT support group!

[Bonz]

I may have to join the BT support group!

don't forget your rocking chair and slippers...

[plus1hdcp]

I may have to join the BT support group!

Step 1 - My name is _____ and I have a problem
Step 2 - I spend too much time in the shop
Step 3 - I spend too much time on this forum
Step 4 - I try and find ways to buy more stuff from BT and others on this forum

Repeat

[DukeInFlorida]

Instead of a knurled groove, you would want to have the machine create a roller type groove.

I've found that a stronger roll crimp completely fixes setback issues. And, when dealing with my brass jacketed swaged bullets, and loading those into brass cases (where the two materials are the same hardness), the LEE Factory Crimp Die does wonders for creating a very strong roll crimp. It will put a crimp groove in any bullet, right through the case brass. That might be a better and cheaper solution to your need to prevent setback.

However, should you desire to get into the swaging end of reloading, buying this cannelure machine, and having chuckbuster make you a roll groove wheel (even my prototype shows an easy changeout of the knurling wheel), as an accessory item.

Then, you could even put grease grooves into straight sided (swaged) LEAD bullets, which wouldn't otherwise have any lube grooves.


Kevin I sent you a PM (just about the same as what I am posting).

I would like to use the cannelure machine for 38 special cases with wadcutters. (Others might use it on 9's 40's and 45s on carry rounds also to prevent setback as they chamber and un-chamber the carry rounds).

I don't yet swage, but I have picked up a wadcutter mold that doesn't have a crimp grove. Putting a cannelure just bellow where the base of the wadcutter will sit will prevent setback.

The pictures might explain what I am after:
http://www.northeastshooters.com/vbulletin/threads/89320-case-quot-ridge-quot-(or-canyon-trench-I-guess)?p=1268512&viewfull=1#post1268512

[Bonz]

Instead of a knurled groove, you would want to have the machine create a roller type groove.

I've found that a stronger roll crimp completely fixes setback issues. And, when dealing with my brass jacketed swaged bullets, and loading those into brass cases (where the two materials are the same hardness), the LEE Factory Crimp Die does wonders for creating a very strong roll crimp. It will put a crimp groove in any bullet, right through the case brass. That might be a better and cheaper solution to your need to prevent setback.

However, should you desire to get into the swaging end of reloading, buying this cannelure machine, and having chuckbuster make you a roll groove wheel (even my prototype shows an easy changeout of the knurling wheel), as an accessory item.

Then, you could even put grease grooves into straight sided (swaged) LEAD bullets, which wouldn't otherwise have any lube grooves.

If the cannelure tool came with both the cannelure wheel and the roll groove wheel, this tool would universal

[kayak1]

Instead of a knurled groove, you would want to have the machine create a roller type groove.

I've found that a stronger roll crimp completely fixes setback issues. And, when dealing with my brass jacketed swaged bullets, and loading those into brass cases (where the two materials are the same hardness), the LEE Factory Crimp Die does wonders for creating a very strong roll crimp. It will put a crimp groove in any bullet, right through the case brass. That might be a better and cheaper solution to your need to prevent setback.

However, should you desire to get into the swaging end of reloading, buying this cannelure machine, and having chuckbuster make you a roll groove wheel (even my prototype shows an easy changeout of the knurling wheel), as an accessory item.

Then, you could even put grease grooves into straight sided (swaged) LEAD bullets, which wouldn't otherwise have any lube grooves.

The Wadcutter mod in question doesn't have a crimp grove, it has lube grooves and will be sized and lubed on my star. The bullet is inserted flush with the top of the 38 thus you only see the brass. Ideally you want a cannelure the brass just directly below the bullet to prevent setback.

[kayak1]

This picture might help:
105036

You can see the wadcutter in the middle and a carry round on the right with a cannelure to prevent setback.

[Bonz]

Until your dies come in send that thing over here, I would be glad to check it out for you,
make sure it works OK...

:mrgreen:

went to LGS and bought a box of Speer .500" bullets for the 50AE just so I could cannelure them for my 500 S&W ;-)

[chuckbuster]

went to LGS and bought a box of Speer .500" bullets for the 50AE just so I could cannelure them for my 500 S&W ;-)

Let me know how it goes
Thanx
Kevin

[bbailey7821]

Got it, today...WOW! Very nice, CB! Tell the team it's awesome!

[chuckbuster]

I think we may have the case groove situation figured out. Mike took the weekend to go "Up North" to his cabin in the woods, sort of relax a day or two. Would a smooth Roll Groove be required or would a finer pitch knurl be adequate? Most of the cases I have personally seen with a cannelure/groove on them have been a knurl rather than a smooth groove. Also would you do this operation before loading and seating the bullet so that the bump inside acts as a stop so bullet is not seated too deep or after loading? Seems like it acts as a stop against seating too deep as recoil should tend to cause bullet pull not setback. Or is the cannelure actually rolled against the bullet after seating to act as a crimp so that case mouth does not have to be rolled over the nose of the bullet?
Thanx
Kevin

[DukeInFlorida]

Good news for someone...............

Chuckbuster told me this morning that he just shipped 4 (FOUR!) cannelure machines.

Those of you who ordered, and you know who you are, should keep your eyes open.

[kayak1]

Good news for someone...............

Chuckbuster told me this morning that he just shipped 4 (FOUR!) cannelure machines.

Those of you who ordered, and you know who you are, should keep your eyes open.

Chuckbuster was nice enough to forward the tracking information along. Mine will have a nice option to take care of my 38 cases too. When it's not in use I can hang it up as art work.

[chuckbuster]

Kayak
Hope you like what we worked out for you on that. Give me a call with any questions. Seemed to work good for us on some .38 cases and some .44 Mags

Everyone that needs one should have a Tracking # via PM or email.

Hoping to get some feedback on performance on these.
Thanx to all
Kevin

[Prospector Howard]

Very nice! That's what I like to see, a well made product at a fair price!

[Dryball]

:bigsmyl2: I got mine in the mail today! I was so excited that I had to do a few bullets. This thing is a work of art and slicker than eel snot! This is, for sure, a quality product of the highest order. :bigsmyl2:

[kayak1]

Mine arrived too, it's a work of art. It has no slop, I hope that my truck engine is as well built.