45 cal muzzle loader bullet

[FlintsNSticks]

I been tryin to find some info to at least get me pointed in the right direction. I have 2 45 cal muzzleloaders. one is a flinter Kentucky 1:66 twist 33 1/2 in barrel and the other is an inline cva hunterbolt mag 1:28 twist barrel. I built the flinter from a kit and just recently got the inline used. so far I've found by shootin that the 245 gr maxi ball and 195 pwrbelt shoot great at 50 yds w 60gr 3f goex, and prb w/ 50 grs goex in the flinter(cloverleafs w/ all, open sights, rested),, i havent tried 100yds yet. and so far for the inline I just shot it once so far, to make sure it was still in good workin order(and it is) and use 225 pwrbelt @ 50yds w/ so so results w/ 60gr 3fgoex(still gotta put diff scope n rings on). I've been lookin at other boolits and was wonderin about minie balls, lee's r.e.a.l boolits for both guns. like what gr boolit works best w/ what charge. or if the pwrbelt in a bigger size, lee and minies are even worth tryin. I want to stick w/ the 3f goex(since its 3/4 full can) for my flinter and have some t7 for the inline. any info would be helpful for each of or all the these boolits listed. these will be whitetailers bout 120+ is the average size for my areaw the occasional big guy 180+. thanx in advance for the info.

[johnson1942]

for the 1/28 inline you need a bigger bullet. if you shot a .440 paperpatch bullet patched with number 9 onion skin paper 2 wraps and the bullet was 380 grain and preferably 400 grains it would shoot x ring every time. if it is 209 primer ignition use black horn 209 powder about 70 to 80 grains. your 1/28 twist inline is getting very popular and paperpatching them is easy. it will shoot as far as you want to shoot it accurately and hit hard with paperpatch. review every thing idaho ron has posted as you will find all the info you need to get the 1/28 up and running. as for the flinter, you have a nice roundball gun also. wont hit as hard as the inline. a well placed .45 ball can do the trick but it doesnt weigh 400 grains.

[FlintsNSticks]

does the .440 need to be a hollow base boolit or can it be flat base?

[OverMax]

IMO: Don't go down that road of wondering if there is something better to shoot and buying so many different projectiles or molds you'll only use a couple times after experiencing there disappointing accuracy.
was wonderin about minie balls, lee's r.e.a.l boolits for both guns Come on you know your flinter is a Rd ball shooter never intended to be a musket or mini ball thrower having a 1-66 rifling. As for the inline anything bullet like can be used in their application. Even a 60d shorten nail. But honestly I would suggest a nice accurate store bought sabot bullet combo for your CVA. Try Googling PR Bullets (dead center bullet makers) I've applied their guidance and used their products for many years. Have never found either to be disappointing.

[johnson1942]

a .440 bullet can be both hollow base or flat. idaho ron shoots a flat base very well and i shoot a cupped base with a stout lip. my .50 shoots a bullet that is very slightly concave on the base. i think the metal hardness and the diam. of the bullet is the most important part.i would hesitate to shoot a bullet with a very thin lip on the hollow base, to fragile. i had to change the base of my .50 for that reason. you want the bullet to bump up but evenly. idaho ron uses felt wads and i use fiber wads behind the bullet, both work.

[FlintsNSticks]

any web sites you know of I can get on to ck out the diff .440's ?, I was reading my inline manual and it says no sabots over 300 and no conicals over 400.

[johnson1942]

buffalo arms has swaged cupped based .440 bullets in 400 grain. they will shoot very well in your 1/28 twist .45. just buy a few and if they work, possibly have a mould made like it. at least you will know if you like paperpatch. if you do have a mould made in .440 i would make it in .442 and reduce in through a reduceing die that .440. the reduceing dies are very reasonable. that way the bullets will all be the same at .440, as they can come out of the mould slightly diff. in diam and that isnt good in paperpatching.

[FlintsNSticks]

thank you for all your info johnson1942

[DangerousDrummer]

I have been shooting powder coated REAL cast in my CVA. They were not impressively accurate, but a couple of weeks ago, I happened to half charge my loads (40 grains) to reduce the kick and powder usage while plinking, and much to my surprise, the accuracy increased greatly. It increased to about 4 moa, but was around 8 before. Since I was plinking at the hunting camp I didn't have my chrono, but plan to chrono the load after turkey season.

[FlintsNSticks]

im plannin on goin to the range when I go to camp, just takin the inline out. got the scope n mounts on it I wanted, and somewhat bore sighted, I have pwr belts in 225gr, and some maxi balls in 245gr, also have 195 gr pwr belts but think in my inline they may be to light a bullet so ill save them for my flinter since they work really well in that. ill start w pwr belts and try diff powder loads in 10 gr increments and see how they work, I know they don't like to much powder behind them so ill go 90 max w/ 777. then do the same w/ maxi balls w/ felt patch under them. id like to try the 275gr pwrbelts but its odd time of yr for this stuff n stores here don't have them in that gr.

[FlintsNSticks]

what gr REAL are u shootin, cause I wanted to try those out also, found a guy that sells 50 for 4$ not including shipping.

[rbstern]

Flints, I'm shooting Lee's 450-200-1R, paper patched, from my CVA Optima Elite .45 (1-28 twist). I bought the mold so I could practice without spending my lunch money on Powerbelts. Accuracy is excellent using 80 grains of Blackhorn 209. When I saw how nicely it grouped, I ditched the Powerbelts. Have only taken one deer with it, a 125lb buck at about 60 yards. Spine shot, and the bullet passed through, low on the opposite side rib cage. At any reasonable range and velocity, that bullet should poke two holes in Mr. Whitetail. Just have to put it through the right spot.

[Nobade]

Hmm, hadn't thought about using that boolit in rifles. I think I have that mould around here somewhere. I have had great success with Lee's TL-452-230-TC 45ACP tumble lube boolit in my Cherokee. I size them to .442" and patch to .449" and they shoot lights out over 50gr. FFFg. Never could get that rifle to shoot for beans with anything else but PP boolits.

-Nobade

[FlintsNSticks]

check out the other thread i started "45 cal inline bullet test".

[Tatume]

This is the bullet I like in my Parker-Hale Volunteer:

http://www.midwayusa.com/Product/497427/lyman-1-cavity-bullet-mold-451114-45-caliber-451-diameter-450-grain-volunteer

For range use I size them to 0.450" and they shoot wonderfully. Black powder will "bump up" slightly undersized bullets, and I expect that has a lot to do with the excellent accuracy I experience. For hunting I shoot them as cast. The accuracy is the same, but there is less chance that the bullet will migrate away from the powder during a day of hunting. The only difference is they are a little bit harder to load.

Lyman also makes a somewhat larger version of this mold:

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/506017/lyman-1-cavity-bullet-mold-457121ph-45-caliber-457-diameter-475-grain-whitworth

I haven't tried one yet, but expect it will drop bullets at around 0.458" or so.

Steve Zihn is building a muzzle loading rifle for me in the style of John Rigby and using a barrel blank from Green River intended for 45-70 rifles. I'll start with the Volunteer bullet, and if it doesn't shoot well, I'll get the Whitworth mold.

I will add, that Volunteer bullet drops deer like swatted flies; they just don't go anywhere! But then, any big 45 caliber bullet will do that if placed correctly. :-)

Take care, Tom

[Rattus58]

This is the bullet I like in my Parker-Hale Volunteer:

http://www.midwayusa.com/Product/497427/lyman-1-cavity-bullet-mold-451114-45-caliber-451-diameter-450-grain-volunteer

For range use I size them to 0.450" and they shoot wonderfully. Black powder will "bump up" slightly undersized bullets, and I expect that has a lot to do with the excellent accuracy I experience. For hunting I shoot them as cast. The accuracy is the same, but there is less chance that the bullet will migrate away from the powder during a day of hunting. The only difference is they are a little bit harder to load.

Lyman also makes a somewhat larger version of this mold:

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/506017/lyman-1-cavity-bullet-mold-457121ph-45-caliber-457-diameter-475-grain-whitworth

I haven't tried one yet, but expect it will drop bullets at around 0.458" or so.

Steve Zihn is building a muzzle loading rifle for me in the style of John Rigby and using a barrel blank from Green River intended for 45-70 rifles. I'll start with the Volunteer bullet, and if it doesn't shoot well, I'll get the Whitworth mold.

I will add, that Volunteer bullet drops deer like swatted flies; they just don't go anywhere! But then, any big 45 caliber bullet will do that if placed correctly. :-)

Take care, TomMy volunteer for some reason has a .452 bore and so I size to just that. I've three other .451 bore rifles that I also size to .452 and I use two bullets, one is the .457121 and a custom mold with a gas check fashioned after the .457121 and another mold that I have made by Rapine that casts at .451. I started sizing bullets when I started shooting White muzzleloaders to .450 and I've learned that on a clean barrel, .450 can have the bullet work its way downbore given enough time. White suggested a squib load to foul the bore and hold the bullet for hunting. When hunting, I size all my bullets to .452 and never have problems loading and the .005 engraving doesn't affect accuracy. .450/.451 has numerous advantages in my opinion... one is that the bullet is centered in the bore naturally. I use wads over powder, but not having any "tails" caused by harsh engraving, you don't have leading issues either. Bumping up, as you call it.. obturation I've heard it called, seals the gasses off with reasonable loads and soft lead... I still use wads.

The .451 can shoot any 45/70 bullet with a 1-18 or 1-20 twist, so your offerings are plentiful. I prefer the 450 to 470 range of bullets for all around shooting. The point of my post, is that I prefer to not size to .450 anymore except maybe on the range. My volunteer being .452 for some reason I size to that gun and all the rest benefit... :grin: You might try a little larger and if your drop is a .457 or thereabouts... a little less deformation/smearing of lead. Sized bullets in my guns will allow for a minimum of three shots a minute if you're showing off.... :grin:

[FlintsNSticks]

Thanx for the posts guys, I'll take all the info and put it to good use. According to my rifles manual a 400gr bullet is max for this rifle. Next thing on my list is a bullet resizer . My bore is .451 and the grove is .462. I have 25 percent cotton onion skin paper and 2wraps will add .004, so I'm thinkin on gettin a .447 resizer. That should put me @ .451 after wrap. I want to find a bullet about 300grs or so. My hunting shots will be 100yds max, but mostly in the 50yd range. I'm not a more is better type a guy so powder loads will be 80grs max.

[Tatume]

I lube my paper patched bullets by hand. size after patching, and use a 0.451" die. However, I've not found any advantage to paper patching, as my conventional bullets are very accurate.

[triggerhappy243]

i think shot placement is more critical than bullet weight. it is a whitetail deer, not a detroit diesel engine. i think 400 gr. bullet is a waste of lead. most every bullet mentioned in this thread will completely pass thru a whitetail if it does not hit any bone. pass it thru the heart lung area and there will be meat in the freezer. just my thoughts.

[FlintsNSticks]

i agree w/ shot placement, but for bullet weight id sooner be a lil heavy than to light, seen to may ppl usin small fast bullets or fast hp bullets and not find the deer(check out my other thread w/ 225 gr powerbelt). things seem to blow up before they penetrate. myself i'd like to use something in the 250 or range because i have a tight twist barrel and so far that weight was shoot pretty good outta my rifles and i dont like heavy recoil ;)

[Tatume]

i think shot placement is more critical than bullet weight. it is a whitetail deer, not a detroit diesel engine. i think 400 gr. bullet is a waste of lead. most every bullet mentioned in this thread will completely pass thru a whitetail if it does not hit any bone. pass it thru the heart lung area and there will be meat in the freezer. just my thoughts.

Bullet weight can be a controlling factor in shot placement, in that lighter bullets often don't shoot as accurately. My Parker-Hale Volunteer is extremely accurate with the 450 grain Lyman 451114 bullet. Therefore, it is a very efficient use of lead.