If you get....

[Blammer]

If after 3 shots in my 30-06 rifle...

If you get leading in the last 3 inches of your rifle this usually indicates.... WHAT?

not enough lube?

wrong size?

too high a pressure?

what?

[rugerman1]

lube problems

[Blammer]

OK, so I'm using a plain base, and only lubing half of it with LLA, so I suppose I should lube the whole thing.

I sized to .311 and lubed only 1/2 with LLA, finger applied. May as well tumble the whole thing now.

Using 13gr of Unique.

I'll give it a go.

This is the bullet I'm trying.

As soon as I get a .311 Lyman 450 sizer I'll use my other lube....

http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g81/blammer8mm/Cast%20boolits/DSCN6357.jpg

[MT Gianni]

You are running out of lube in the latter part of your bbl. The lack of a gas check may mean that the scraping action it provides created the loss of lube or it may be velocity is too much for the pb with LLA. You need to slow it further or go to a much better lube. Gianni

[405]

No crystal ball here.... could be any of the mentioned things. Don't know if this is applicable here or not but one more possibility won't hurt.

I've seen that a few times with copper jacket deposits in regular high-powered J bullet loads. One in particular sticks in my mind. Finally tracked it down to blowby at the throat combined with some oopsies by the chamber reamer at the neck, throat and leade- easy fix once identified. Seems that either scoured particles of bullet and/or blowby particles in the plasma cloud of gas ahead of and/or behind the bullet can cause unusual deposits in the barrel. I think the Krieger barrel site explains it pretty well. I guess the copper particles (very small- like a colloidal mix) decided to lay down about 3/4 of the way down the barrel.... to the point where I could feel a sizable constriction when running a patch on a jag down the bore after 10 shots or so. Suppose lead could do the same thing?

My guesses would be... Bullet/throat fit out of whack, bullet at .311 could be too big for bore (normal modern 30 cal is .308- try .308-.309).... .003 over might shoot well but cause leading, sharp leade angle into lands could cause some leading with oversized bullets, load too hot or hardness/design not right, GC could help as could full lube or any combination of any of those :? Yikes! sorry one word cure would be nice- but I've never found this stuff to be that easy and if it were that easy... we'd all be shooting one hole internet groups with no fouling.

[Lloyd Smale]

could be a lube problem. could be an alloy problem and it could be your barrel is rougher there or has a constriction. Try lubing them normal and also putting a coat of lee tumble lube on them and see if it corrects it. If it does you know your lube is giving up the ghost. If it still does it id look at your barrel next.

[Blammer]

thanks!

I'll drop down to 12 gr unique, then lube the whole bullet and size to .309 and see what I gets...

I'll let you know!

Can't put a GC on this one.

[44man]

LLA works great to contaminate landfills! :mrgreen:

[jonk]

I find that with plain base bullets, unless you have a really great lube, even 1200 fps is a bit fast. LLA is a fine lube but there just isn't that much of it especially if you only lube the last half of the bullet. Combine with velocity probably right on the cusp of max for a pb bullet and I'd say there's your problem- a combination of factors. I'd drop to even lower- maybe 8 grains of unique and lube the whole thing and then see what happens.

[Bob Krack]

thanks!
I'll drop down to 12 gr unique, then lube the whole bullet and size to .309 and see what I gets...
I'll let you know!
Can't put a GC on this one.

Blammer,

According to an article I once read from the LASC site, lead late in the barrel is most often a sign of lack of lubrication. I would seriously try a little extra lube with no other changes as a first step. 2 or 3 changes at a time might solve the problem but will not give the answer.

Vic

[26Charlie]

My experience with fast powders is that there is a critical charge where the leading starts, and changing lubes can only affect that a little bit. With UNIQUE that is around 10 grains. I used to shoot a lot of 311241 150 gr. RNPB with 8.0 gr. 700-X, and even 9.0 gr. caused leading and accuracy went south. 700-X of course is faster than UNIQUE, but I'll bet if you try some five-shot samples with 10.0, 10.5, 11.0, 11.5, 12.0, 12.5 gr. you will find the tipping point, so to speak.

As to lube, I mix up my own using 1/3 beeswax, 2/3 beef tallow - an old formula that works well for most of my shooting. Granted, I do not try for the super-hard bullets high-velocity range that specialists have explored.

Just a note about that Loverin designed bullet - I know an older shooter who knew H. Guy Loverin, who told me that Loverin was of the opinion that you could not get too much lube on a bullet; hence all the grooves.

[MT Gianni]

thanks!

I'll drop down to 12 gr unique, then lube the whole bullet and size to .309 and see what I gets...

I'll let you know!

Can't put a GC on this one.

I would drop to at least 10 gr and work back up. Gianni

[Blammer]

thanks!

I tried 12 gr unique, fully lubed boolit an sized to .309. No leading, and NO accuracy.

Here is my target.

IF you can see the numbers the shots are numbered the first three are

.311sized 1/2 LLA 13gr unique

the shots 4-6 are .309, fully LLA, and 12 gr unique

I'll definitely try 10 gr and see what shakes out.
Yea, you'll have to turn your monitor sideways to read it....
http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g81/blammer8mm/Targets/311466PB_144gr.jpg

[Blammer]

Just for grins I shot the 311466 with GC and LLA and 13gr unique and dropped 3 touching at the same distance right after I shot this target today.

[Ricochet]

It still amazes me how much difference in accuracy can be seen with two lubes that both entirely prevent leading, in otherwise identical loads.

[felix]

If accuracy is poor, decrease the viscosity. ... felix

[Blammer]

viscosity? of the lube?

huh? I'm lost.

[Ricochet]

Go soft, young man!

[Blammer]

you musta been readin that Glue Boolit thread... :)

[racepres]

Just for grins... while yer experimenting go back to the original loading.. but top 'er up w/ cream o' wheat.... different place... bet the same result... MV