Sulfurless Black Powder

[J-P]

going to try to make some profit on this recipe. Hope everyone that wanted to try it already has.

[AlaskanGuy]

That was a cool idea seperating the BP with wax paper durring the pressing.... I might have to try that one... Great job... How much of it have you shot???

I have decided to do some testing with mine here after bear hunting season... I am gunna sight in with pyrodex select, 250 gr boolit.... Then I will load up some of mine and see if Everything else is the same, it should tell the story in point of aim....

Nice job sir...

[Boz330]

Comparing HMBP to Pyrodex or Triple 7 is apples and oranges. Compare it to commercial BP and you will learn something. Load the HM by weight and you will get the results you are looking for.

Bob

[OverMax]

As read I'm sure the powder is for pistol use. As there really isn't a need to corn powder for rifle use. As understood your on the right track J-P for sulfur-less. If what you blend together works. You have succeeded in the making where others have not done as well.

[AlaskanGuy]

Well Boz, unfortunatly, there is 0, zilch, nada, none, real black powder anywhere near where I live, so i guess I will just compare with pyrodex so i can have what i call a baseline in performance.... Something to measure against....

[Hang Fire]

If one wants a hotter load, instead of BP, go for making brown (AKA cocoa) powder. Until the event of smokeless, brown powder was used for artillery. Made primarily with charred wheat straw, it is lower pressure, slower burning, and cleaner than BP, allowing a more controlled burn rate.

[Texantothecore]

If one wants a hotter load, instead of BP, go for making brown (AKA cocoa) powder. Until the event of smokeless, brown powder was used for artillery. Made primarily with charred wheat straw, it is lower pressure, slower burning, and cleaner than BP, allowing a more controlled burn rate.

How do you make it?

[ofitg]

Here's a write-up from Davis's book, Chemistry of Powder & Explosives -

Cocoa powder was the most
successful form of black powder for use in rifled guns of long
range.
Gocoa powder or brown powder was made in single-perforated
hexagonal or octagonal prisms which resembled pieces of milk
chocolate. A partially burned brown charcoal made from rye
straw was used. This had colloidal properties and flowed under
pressure, cementing the grains together, and made it possible to
manufacture powders which were slow burning because they contained
little sulfur or sometimes even none/ The compositions of
several typical cocoa powders are tabulated below:

SALTPETER CHARCOAL SULFUR
England '79 18 3
England 77.4 17.6 5
Germany 78 19 3
Germany 80 20 0
France 78 19 3
Cocoa powder was more sensitive to friction than ordinary black
powder. Samples were reported to have inflamed from shaking in
a canvas bag. Cocoa powder was used in the Spanish-American
war, 1898. When its use was discontinued, existing stocks were
destroyed, and single grains of the powder are now generally to
be seen only in museums

[Nobade]

Sounds like something you would have to extrude through a die like smokeless powder. That bit about igniting by shaking in a bag gets my attention too, I don't think I want my powder to be able to do that.

-Nobade

[Texantothecore]

Sounds like something you would have to extrude through a die like smokeless powder. That bit about igniting by shaking in a bag gets my attention too, I don't think I want my powder to be able to do that.

-Nobade

That comment set my teeth on edge too. Don't think that I'm going to mess with that stuff.

[ofitg]

Maybe I'm reading it wrong, but it sounds like the big advantage of cocoa powder was the extra-slow burning rate, which provided optimal results in long cannon barrels.... if that's the case, I doubt that it would provide optimal results in our rifles and pistols.

[Texantothecore]

Thanks for the technique using wax paper. I have a lifetime supply of that stuff.

That is a good write up and I will be trying it soon as I have always wondered about it.

[Eagle66]

From my experience, I'd say skip the alcohol in step 1. Skip steps 3, 4, & 5. Dextrin will slow down the powder and isn't needed when you compress the powder enough.

Love the waxed paper deal. Gonna use it next time.

Bust up the pucks in an aluminum pot with a 2 x 4 or baseball bat, then grind it in a crank coffee mill with CERAMICburrs. Screen 20-40 for 2f, 40-70 for 3f, 70-100 for 4f, give you grain size like Goex. Reuse the 100 dust back into the next batch. Regrind the big stuff. Measure by weight just like
Goex, etc.

I got my screens from Amazon. Started @

http://www.amazon.com/SE-Sifting-100in-11in-GP2-1100/dp/B00BP2I77U/ref=pd_sim_sg_4?ie=UTF8&refRID=1ADH32844X6TTT13MK6Z

then got other meshes of the same kind. Average about $10 each.

[Texantothecore]

Www.mcmaster.com also has screens that quite cheap.

[Texantothecore]

J-P,

I haven't tried your mix yet. I was wondering if you had any misfires considering the lack of sulfur to lower the ignition temperature.

[Fly]

I love people posting stuff they read & never tried it.Why do people try & reinvent the wheel.
This is a black powder form.I just don,t get it??????
Fly

[J-P]

Well, I know it has been a long time since I last visited this post, but I finally got around to testing this powder... sort of.

Since I don't have any testing equipment, or access to it, I just tried shooting 60gr (volume) loads of my powder and 60gr loads of Triple7 from a rest at 50 yards. 24" barrel .50 with a PRB.

Please forgive the scatter pattern but here's what the target looked like:
118154

The three higher holes are from my homemade powder and the two lower ones are from the Triple7. At first I was excited. Then puzzled. Now I think I realize what's going on here. The Triple7 had much more kick and a louder report so I figured it should hit higher if it was traveling faster. The Triple7 also cut much cleaner holes. So, I think that there's a possibility that the slower powder is allowing more muzzle flip before the ball leaves. Maybe? like a handgun that patterns lower with a little hotter load. -Bullet leaves the barrel before the gun has time to move as much. Someone correct me if I'm wrong. With a wild group like this, it's hard to say for certain that I didn't just jerk the gun a bunch.

ANyhow... I really wanted to shoot more to get a better feel for it but the sky cut loose and I had to pack it up in a hurry.

For what it's worth the homemade, sulfurless, powder smelled like smoked pork and shot very clean. Each ball when down easy. After one shot of Triple7, the next was a bear to drive home through the fouling. That part alone has me settled on never buying powder again. Even if it is slower. Maybe someday I'll get some real results, but for now I am very pleased and encourage anyone that is willing to make powder to give this a try.

By the way, I know I'm not supposed to shoot PRB out of a 24", fast twist inline. Probably has something to do with the big group. I'm dreaming of a nice Hawken hanging over the back door of my new house someday. The house needs to get done first though.

[Nobade]

Was this a caplock or flint? Any noticeable hangfires or fast ignition? Any other info? Interesting...

-Nobade

[J-P]

It's a 209 inline. Traditions buck stalker specifically. I would have tested it first in my .44 rem but I can't seem to find any #10 caps and I am a little scared to try the #11's I picked up at the wal mart. I read on the inter webs that one can pinch the 11's and make them fit. Also read that doing that is a good way to get a chain fire. To answer your question fairly, I'll need to try my revolver with it and if someone could give me a flintlock rifle, that'd be great. I'll follow up on this as soon as I get a chance.

[Fly]

Makes good reading anyway.I will stick with what people have done who invented it.

Fly

[Boz330]

Sulfur lowers the ignition temperature of BP by 100* IIRC, which might make a flintlock a little tough to ignite.

Bob

[Fly]

JP corned powder does not require a binder.I think if you weigh your powder
& compare it to Goex it will be much lighter than real corned powder.Alky
doe,s nothing for black powder.

Also buy staking your puck you are not getting full compression you would as
doing them one at a time, unless you have one huge press.

Fly

[J-P]

Removed by author

[Texantothecore]

In an old publication it is opined by the author that sulfur may act as a binder. Seems unlikely but your experience seems to correspond to his opinion. Interesting.

[ofitg]

J-P, do you know anybody who has a chronograph?

[Fly]

JP your right about the alky not crystallize the kno-3.But the only time I use it is when I use
red gum as a binder.It is the solvent for red gum.But I must ask, as to why you don't want
to use sulfur, as most do????

Fly

[Texantothecore]

The only function of alky is lower the temperature of the mix. Apparently a slower cool down promotes larger kno3 crystals which supposedly slows down the burn rate.

Is it significant? No idea

[farmerjim]

I have seen numerous posts on Black powder without Sulfur, but none of them say why the no Sulfur.
Why?

[GhostHawk]

I'm no BP experten but I suspect the sulfur is there as an ignition/burning aid. I also suspect that sulfur is probably responsible for most of corrosion problems with BP. If you think about it the Charcoal is the fuel, the Nitrate is the oxidizer so it can burn in a confined space with no need for external air.

Heat up Sulfur and it will react with all kinds of things giving you the potential at least for all kinds of compounds in your barrel.

If it was me I'd have to say that black made without it will probably burn several orders of magnitude cleaner, less fouling.
Less fouling means more shots, easier cleaning.

But I could be wrong.

[Fly]

Corrosion is mainly from the KNO-3.Remember it is a salt, & as why it is called salt peter.
Sulfur helps in ignition.
Fly