TC Contender in .30 Herrett vs. .30-30 Win

[Lonegun1894]

So I have a TC Contender with a .30 Herrett Barrel that is 10" long, with 1:14" ROT. The twist is perfect for cast, and the pistol shoots great. However, I have been thinking (why didn't any of you stop me when you smelled the smoke?) of getting a .30-30 barrel for it. I prefer the 10" over the 14" barrels just due to balance. I know the .30 Herrett is more efficient and does better than the .30-30 in a 10" barrel, but how much better is it really? Part of the reason I am thinking of this is that the .30-30 has a longer neck, so is more cast bullet friendly and allows the base of the bullet to be fully contained in the neck, which the .30 Herrett does not. Now, it doesn't seem to hurt the performance of the Herret by any means at least in my barrel, but you all know how this thinking thing gets some of us in trouble. For what it's worth, I also have .22LR, .223 Rem, .357Mag, and .44Mag barrels, so a .30 caliber of one type or another fits right in with the rest of the toy box. I don't think I want to get rid of the Herrett, just wondering if I would be really gaining or losing anything if I added a .30-30. I already cast and load for .30-30 lever guns so have everything I need to feed it, so that would not be an added cost to consider on top of this. Any and all suggestions for anything I may not have thought of would be appreciated, cause this is kind of a wild hair so I don't know if I would be gaining anything, or just duplicating what I already have. Now duplicating might not be a bad thing if there are any benefits, but if there's no benefit, then why bother, right? Edumacate me please, Gentlemen and Ladies? Thanks.

[Hickory]

As you have stated, the 30 Harret is more efficient, if you want a loud muzzle blast and a large fireball when you pull the trigger, then get the 30-30.
The reason why the 30 Herret was developed was to reduce the fireball and muzzle blast of an over bore cartridge like the 30-30 is in a 10" barrel. Not to mention that with the larger capacity of the 30-30 the theory of demolished return comes into play whereby you burn let's say 20% more powder and get only 3-5% more velocity.

My 2¢ on the matter.

[bobthenailer]

IMO Try a 300 wisper/ blackout contender barrel, from what i heard ! matches or exceeds velocties with the 30/30 with alot less powder.

[Jupiter7]

300blk/wisper is very efficient but rimmed cases are a distinct advantage. My personal opinion is 30/30 in a short barrel is a poor performer. Stick with 30 herret.

[hornady308]

I have both the 30-30 and Herrett for my Contender. There's no real point in getting the 10" barrel in 30-30 unless you just want one for the heck of it (which I recommend). If you do get the 10" 30-30, make sure it's one of the octagonal barrels because they are that much more fun to shoot.

[bobthenailer]

Also dont overlook the 30/20 (32/20) you can get 1,500 fps with the RCBS Sil 165 gr cast boolet, i personaly only push them to 1,250 fps with 9.0 grs of surplus 820 powder from a 10.75" pistol barrel , groups are consistantly MOA @ 100 yards

[Ben]

Here are my thoughts :

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?222485-A-very-versatile-pistol

[3leggedturtle]

I had a 10" 30herrett. Nice cartridge, just didn't see any advantage when reloading for it. Had MGM make me a 12"30/30 barrel. Even with H335 and a 125gr SPP blast and muzzle flash weren't bad. In fact I was disappointed in that it didn't light up the woods when I shot at night. Also didn't need to carry a 2 types of ammo when heading up north on the bike for a long weekend. Plus I have all kinds of 30/30 brass and didn't care for cutting it down. Had no problem making the 30H brass, it shot the Lee 170gr and 113gr FP's great. Also have a friend that doesn't care for rifle cartridges in pistols. Even he liked the 12" 30/30.

[Poohgyrr]

Anyone know if Bob Milek's articles on this cartridge are still around? I seem to remember him explaining his thoughts and reasons behind this cartridge in the Contenders.

The 30WCF is a sweet round and a favorite in our home.

[marshall623]

My Dad has a 14" 30-30 that is a shooter , I have a 10 3/4" Herrett at 100 yd. it does around 1" with 150 Sierras , 1 1/2" with 150 Lee FN 's over 4759. I have to lean toward the Herrett

[JSH]

Efficient, I have to chuckle every time I see that. Efficiency was thrown out when a rifle cartridge was stuffed into a long barreled handgun.
The 30 herrett,30x221 and 30-20 can do what the 30-30 does but with bullets from 150 and below, in a 10" barrel.
I have or had all of the above mentioned and shot them all a fair bit.
The quotes on the net and the gun rags saying the 30x221 is equal to the 30-30 is a partial truth. It would be in effect saying the 308 will do what a 300 WM will do. You can't replace cubic inches.
Jeff

[Artful]

Way back in the day I took a Super 14 and had reamed to Ackley Improved 30-30 - for what's it's worth I sold it and wouldn't make another.
If you have a 10 inch 30 Herrett is about perfect for hunting cartridge - and nothing says you can't have both.

[taco650]

How about skipping the 30-30 altogether and get a .357 Herrett?

[HeavyMetal]

Bought a Contender years ago, barrel was 22 hornet.

Since then I've added a few barrels and dropped a few, LOL!

Had a super 14 in 44 mag, OK but not what the 30-30 was in a 14! 44 barrel went down the road to buy a 16 inch 45-70 Ya Buddy!

I though long and hard before I bought the 14 inch 30-30 about both the 30 Herrett and the 357 Herrett, 10 inch barrels didn't impress me and the very fact that I can lay my hands on a lot of 30-30 brass, and didn't have to form trim and mess with special brass, turned my head to the standard 30-30 super 14.

Don't buy the 10 inch I had a chance to shoot both at a silly wet match and everyone favored the longer barrels.

I'd do it again if that helps.

One other thing a lot of Octagon barrels are out there not getting used, and can be a great buy.

I have both a 357 and a 45 auto Octagon barrel and found them both to be very accurate. The 45 is a little hard to come by, not as hard as a 9mm, the 357 was a deal I've had three and most of them are cut for that stupid shot shell and are very hard to get to shoot, at least the two I had were!

The 357 Octagon is a tack driver and will stay a long time

Hope this helps

[Viper225]

The 300 BO/Whisper was mentioned above, and the Rimless case was mentioned.
The cartridge can be made from 360 Dan Wesson brass from Starline, and have a rim. The only way to go with a 300BO in a single shot in my opinion. I have been thinking about one.

With that said the the 30-30 with a .489 inch long neck has "Lead Bullet Friendly" written all over it. I want my lube grooves out of the powder charge. Between a 30 Herrett and a 30-30 Win, I would go with a 30-30 shooting cast bullets.

Bob R

[Rick B]

Any load recommendations for the 30 Herrett and 125 gr. cast boolit. Looking for a light loads.
Rick

[Doc Highwall]

The 30 Johnson Special is a shortened 30-30, 1.640" long with a .500" neck, and holds 20 grains of powder if I recall correctly.

[saleen322]

I currently have and shoot 10" barrels in 30-30, 30 Herrett, and 32-20. The worst rap on 30-30 ten inch barrels are from those who only shoot factory ammo through them. When I first starting shooting silhouette back in the late 1970s and early 80s, the 30-30 was what I shot in production class. I had decent luck with 150-165 bullets using Reloader 7, 4198 and 3031 in the 30-30. The 30 Herrett did well with more powders because the case capacity matched the barrel better. The 32-20 is fine but I never shot it as much as the other 2. The 30-30 brass, including the 30 Herrett cases, seemed to hold up better than 32-20 cases. My guess is it is stronger brass. YMMV

[Blackwater]

Betweem the Herrett and the .30/30 in a 10", it's the Herrett all the way! It was designed for the 10" barrel, and to have just the right case capacity to burn efficiently in a 10" barrel. In .30/30, if you go to a 14" barrel, it will give you good performance and some extra ballistics beyond the Herrett, but in actual use, I doubt you'd ever see much difference in field use if you choose and use the right bullets. I shot my deer with the .30 H and 125 gr. Nos. BT's at 1971 fps. a mild but very accurate load, and the damage it did to that deer was unbelievable. The 125 or 130 gr. Speer SPFN ought to be really good on deer, too, for those who just don't like BT's. Again, I really doubt you'll see much difference in the field between the 10" H and 14" .30/30, but many will argue with that, pointing to the obvious difference in paper ballistics, but they don't always transfer over into the field nearly as much as many like to think. FWIW???

[taco650]

The worst rap on 30-30 ten inch barrels are from those who only shoot factory ammo through them.

This is what my reading has shown. Wish I could get my hands on one to find out for myself LOL! Rifle ammo in a short barrel is really over-bore.

[str8wal]

Split the difference and get a 12"er in 30-30? Still pretty handy and that added 2" will make a world of difference in performance while not being too cumbersome..

[fourarmed]

With any overbore cartridge in the 10" barrels, powder is the key. It is hard to beat SR-4759 in any of these, unless your goal is maximum velocity, and then most would use longer barrels.

[Tamjoazoc]

My Dad has a 14" 30-30 that is a shooter , I have a 10 3/4" Herrett at 100 yd. it does around 1" with 150 Sierras , 1 1/2" with 150 Lee FN 's over 4759. I have to lean toward the Herrett

What lee mold do you sugest to start casting for .30 Herrett in my 10in contender?
What lead Alloy works best?
What are good sources for loading data for the cast bullets any powders work better with them than others?
I am new to this are there any resources you suggest I check out to learn more about the process?
I have reloaded for decades and cast soft lead for my black powder and canons
Thanks for any help

[P Flados]

FYI, this is a real old thread, but it does not really matter.

My primary application was IHMSA so I wanted to be in the 150 - 190 range for my Herretts (10" & 14") and my 14" 30-30.

I have both the Lee 150 and the Lee 170 Molds.

I was never able to get a close to full power happy load with the 150s in any of the above barrels.

The 170s drop at 175 with my ~10 bhn range lead and I shoot them ASBB HF Red coated with no gas checks.

With a power on the slow end of the typical range (WC 844 - same as H335), I got good accuracy from my 175s up close to book maximum.

For a different gun, I decided I wanted a plain base, so I modified one of the two cavities to remove the gas check step. That cavity now gives me 180s that shoot about the same as the 175s in the Herretts.

[RedlegEd]

What lee mold do you sugest to start casting for .30 Herrett in my 10in contender?
What lead Alloy works best?
What are good sources for loading data for the cast bullets any powders work better with them than others?
I am new to this are there any resources you suggest I check out to learn more about the process?
I have reloaded for decades and cast soft lead for my black powder and canons
Thanks for any help

Hi Tamjoazoc, and welcome to Cast Boolits! Just a few questions before I start....
1. Have you been loading and shooting your .30 Herrett with jacketed bullets?
2. Sorry, didn't read the last line of your OP. Depending on the BP you shoot, you might even be using a lead/tin mix. If you are just getting started with tertiary alloyed lead, I would recommend sticking with a known alloy such as Lyman #2, or 94/3/3. The key to preventing leading is to make sure the bullet fits the throat and don't try to scream cast bullets like you would jacketed.

Ok, here are some thoughts. First, I have a TC G2 with a Super 14 .30 Herrett barrel, and I shoot cast in it, so what I'm providing is based on personal experience. My favorite plinking load is either the Lee TL314-90-SWC or the Lee C309-120R (I reamed the GC shank from the mould so it's a plain base,) both sized to .310. I usually powder coat them and shoot them over 3.0 gr Bullseye. These are fun, easy, and fairly accurate to 50 yds. The alloy I use is just a mix of about 96% pb, 2% sb, 2% sn. It can be fairly soft as the velocity is low and they are PCd. As long as the bullet fits the throat and barrel, it's all good. Now, for heavier shooting, I'll switch to the Ideal/Lyman pattern 311413 or 311414, or the NOE 311-165FN-30XCB bullet in Lyman #2. I shoot these Gas Checked and PCd over Blue Dot, 2400, or AA5744/SW Buffalo Rifle. I'm still working on loads that will get me better than 2MOA at 100 yds. If you'd like, I can PM you some published cast load information. Best of luck to you!
Ed

264643

[LUCKYDAWG13]

What about a 357 maximum they do good out of a 10" barrel