Information on a Shiloh Sharps

[quilbilly]

An old friend called me to ask if I could help him with information on a Shiloh Sharps he just bought and I thought to ask our CB family for help. The rifle is a Creedmore version of a Shiloh Sharps - 25# approx., 45-2.6" caliber, made in Farmington, New Hampshire, with the serial number 12xx. The Shiloh shop couldn't him help much since it has that low serial number and it is unusual in that it has no markings on the barrel (including caliber) except initials under the stock. He tells me it does not appear to have ever been fired. He also told me the stock is almost exhibition grade with bakelite butt which indicates its age. Slugging and doing a chamber cast is in the future. It has a tang vernier rear and globe front sight. He finally said it might be a"Wolfgang" rebuilt and I have no idea what that might mean. Would any of you know anything about the history of the rifle, what that Wolfgang means, and what the value might be???

[MT Chambers]

Wolfgang Droege was orig. owner of Shiloh Sharps when in NH.....I was under the impression that those early Shilohs didn't bring any additional money, but I am not a Shiloh expert.

[BruceB]

The early Shiloh rifles were made in FARMINGDALE, NEW YORK......not "Farmington New Hampshire".

My Shiloh is serial number 37xx, and carries the "Farmingdale NY" address.

Beautiful rifles.

There should be some sort of caliber marking on the barrel over the chamber area, assuming it's an original Shiloh barrel. The markings will be very small, and may not make sense to someone unfamiliar with the blackpowder cartridges.... like " caliber 45 2.8" or something similar.

(Ooops... I just noted that there are no barrel markings for the chambering. Sorry 'bout that.

[bigted]

just a guess here but ... if there are no markings on the barrel and initials under the wood then ... I would suspect that the rifle has been rebarreled by someone other then the Shiloh folks ... either the Wolfgang or the Bryant guns that the current makers make/rebuild. this rifle would have never been rebarreled ...[unless by special order]... with anything but the barrels that Shiloh builds themselves ... either the early Wolfgang series or the Bryant series.

I can NOT see any good reputable smith doing a rebarrel job on a serious rifle without putting some indication of chamber on the barrel in a visible spot to avoid any confusion in the future.

[quilbilly]

Thanks Bruce and Big Ted. I will pass this information on. I wish I wasn't a ferry ride and 100 miles away (so a expensive undertaking) or I would run over and see for myself. My friend has always wanted a Sharps so I am happy for him in any case. Any other thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

[garandsrus]

... The rifle is a Creedmore version of a Shiloh Sharps - 25# approx., 45-2.6" caliber...

45-2.6" is a 45-100. Here's a picture: https://www.starlinebrass.com/brass-cases/45-100-Brass-45-26/

[quilbilly]

The early Shiloh rifles were made in FARMINGDALE, NEW YORK......not "Farmington New Hampshire".

My Shiloh is serial number 37xx, and carries the "Farmingdale NY" address.

Beautiful rifles.

There should be some sort of caliber marking on the barrel over the chamber area, assuming it's an original Shiloh barrel. The markings will be very small, and may not make sense to someone unfamiliar with the blackpowder cartridges.... like " caliber 45 2.8" or something similar.

(Ooops... I just noted that there are no barrel markings for the chambering. Sorry 'bout that.
When was yours manufactured?

[montana_charlie]

The early Shiloh rifles were made in FARMINGDALE, NEW YORK......not "Farmington New Hampshire".

My Shiloh is serial number 37xx, and carries the "Farmingdale NY" address.
When was yours manufactured?
Knowing when his rifle was manufactured won't change the equation for you.
Before it was called Shiloh Rifles, the company was called Shiloh Products ... manufacturing bullet moulds and other muzzleloading accessories.

Even then they were located in Farmingdale, New York.

CM

[quilbilly]

Just curious for my own information about the history of the company in its various phases. It has quite the interesting history apparently now that I know it also made molds and other such items. Come to think of it, I remember seeing their muzzleloading products around over the years maybe at a rendezvous or two.

[BruceB]

When was yours manufactured?

I'm not dead-certain as to its birthdate, but thinking back I KNOW it came to me as a Christmas gift in the early '80s.

The rifles first appeared in magazine ads around 1980, and I know that I saw almost the full range of available models in an Edmonton (Alberta) gunshop around '81 or '82.

We were still living IN Yellowknife at the time I received the rifle, and we moved out of town to the house in the bush around '84-5.... so this is a long way of TRYING to narrow it down.

Maybe Shiloh could date it; maybe not. Does this help?

[EDG]

I remember a Shiloh Sharps percussion carbine offered for sale in a discount store for $249 in 1978.
I remember that because I was there to buy the first color TV that I owned. I really wanted the Shiloh but with a new daughter I could not afford both.

[quilbilly]

This is definitely satisfying my curiosity. Thanks again.

[.22-10-45]

Back in early summer of 1977, Dixie Gun Works had just recieved their first shipment of Shilo percussion 1863 rifles and carbines. ( the ctg. models were still a few years away). My dad and I made a trip down to Union City that August. When we arrived..they only had two rifles left..a .54 and a .45. I took the .45. However, when I got back home and started examining things closer..the block seemed to me to have excess side play. I called Shilo and spoke to Wolfgang. He said to ship it to him right now! I then asked if an upgrade in wood was available? He said since it was patterened fter a military model..extra fancy wood would look out of place..but said he would see what he could do. Few weeks later..brand new rifle arrives..block nice and tight..and very pretty dark walnut stock with jet black streaks flowing through buttstock. Several years later..I shipped gun out to their shop in Montana and had double-set triggers installed & early flat plate eyepiece tang sight fitted..looks like a Berdan sniper rifle now. It's been awhile since I got it out to range..with the Swiss and Olde E. powders available..I should get it out this summer. Does your barrel have a wolf head stamped near breech?

[buffalomaster]

Hi All! This is Quilbily's "old friend" with the Sharps, I will get information you all ask for asap. I am begining to believe it has been rebarreled at some point. There are no visible markings on the barrel unless you pull off the for grip and then there are 3 initials and other markings that I can not make out. These are located under the lever spring. I will go through all the posts and answer as much as I can. I did call the office in Montana and their records start in the 3xxx so they have no information on it. One gunsmith told me it might have been a presentation piece form the early days of production in NY. I must get to work but will follow up tonight! Thanks for all the great input!!

[bigted]

Welcome buffalomaster. hope your stay is imformative and pleasant ... be carefull as these rifles and blackpowder can grab ya by the boo boo and twirl ya around for just long enough to sicken you and entrap your soul in BP smoke. :drinks:

seriously tho ... this is a wonderfull place to haunt and learn from or to inform others of your success or pitfalls with any number of subjects. have fun and again ... WELCOME to the forum.

[quilbilly]

:drinks:I think I just created a monster. Now if I can just get him over to my place with his 300 Ultramag and his dies to see I f I can make it sing with cast boolits.

[Smoky Thunderclap]

Well lucky me, I found the right thread.
Hey all

I just brought home my first sharps, a NY made 50-140.

I was wondering when it might have been made #40xx

I have shot a friends "big 50" before, and is was just as much fun as I remembered!

thanks

Smoky

[Don Purcell]

It may very well be a rebarrel. My dads Shiloh is an early one and the barrels were ****. Tight and loose spots all down the barrel. We sent it back for a new barrel. Got it back after several months and the new barrel was still **** but less so. Instead of waiting another several months we started lapping out the tight spots and got it shooting a lot better but still not what you would expect from a rifle like that. End result was that David Fansler in Montrose Colorado made a new barrel that was perfect with 100 yard groups of 1 to 1 1/2 with black powder loads being the norm.

[BruceB]

My Shiloh is serial #37XX, and I was given the rifle for Christmas 1980, as I recall.

The barrel was chambered for .50-2.5, although marked .50-3.25.

I discovered the discrepancy when trying to turn a dummy cartridge according to "Cartridges of the World" 's dimensions.

The barrel was consistent enough, but the rifling pattern was following an ancient prescription from the 1880 period..... the rifle never shot well at all.

Shiloh rebarreled it for me in .45-70, and it's far more satisfactory in its current guise. An Axtell long-range tang sight paired with a Parts Unknown spirit-level front help a great deal, too..... at considerable extra cost of course.

[powderburnerr]

If it is associated with Wolfgang , the barrel will have a wolfs head stamped on it under the fore end.

[montana_charlie]

Well lucky me, I found the right thread.
Hey all

I just brought home my first sharps, a NY made 50-140.

I was wondering when it might have been made #40xx
It isn't necessary to pile on to somebody's existing thread.
It's perfectly fine, and probably more productive, if you start your own.

CM

[M-Tecs]

Hi All! This is Quilbily's "old friend" with the Sharps, I will get information you all ask for asap. I am begining to believe it has been rebarreled at some point. There are no visible markings on the barrel unless you pull off the for grip and then there are 3 initials and other markings that I can not make out. These are located under the lever spring. I will go through all the posts and answer as much as I can. I did call the office in Montana and their records start in the 3xxx so they have no information on it. One gunsmith told me it might have been a presentation piece form the early days of production in NY. I must get to work but will follow up tonight! Thanks for all the great input!!

Welcome to Cast Boolits. We would love to see pictures if you would be so kind.

[bigowl]

I own a Shiloh products model 100, .54-100 perc. sporter with set triggers. Round barrel and military butt.
Serial # 26x. I bought it from a friend who bought it new in 1976. I use a NEI mould and a Shiloh Products mould that came with the gun. My hunting load is 490gr ringtail over 90gr FFF triple-seven. Target loan is Shiloh Products 425gr "wad-cutter" over 55gr FFF. By far, one of my favorite rifles.

[MT Chambers]

New York, New Hampshire, same difference.

[Wayne Smith]

New York, New Hampshire, same difference.

Hardly! New York isn't even in New England, but wants to be.

[.22-10-45]

I get a kick out of how rifles are described as being a "creedmoor"...and then go on to say it weighs 15 to 20 something pounds weight with double set triggers. I wonder how many modern shooters would care to touch off a real ..44-77 thru .45-100 Creedmoor with it's regulation 10lb. weight limit and minimum trigger pull of 3lb.?