Rookie Question on Wheel Weights

[Satokad]

Hey Folks,
Sorry to add another rookie question to the pile, but I am close to attempting my first smelting. None of the garages around here will part with wheel weights for free, but I found a recycler that sells them for $0.50/#. You pick them yourself, and I wish I had found the information about how to identify zinc before I was finished, but I didn't buy much. I also found some garages selling 5 gallon buckets full for $30.00 or so, which is a better deal.
My question is that when I go to melt the wheel weights, do I need to clean them off first or just let all the dirt come up with the rest of the dross? I'm sure I'll have more questions as I go, so thanks in advance for your patience and information. I will be casting for 45 Colt (255 and 300 gr), and 1 oz. Key Drive shotgun slugs (which may or may not need pure lead, depending on which thread you read).
I'm looking forward to getting started with this.
Thanks.

[RogerDat]

This thread discusses the two camps, clean and sort first vs. cook and skim Both have their adherents, both approaches have reasons people prefer them. In short it's what you choose based on those reason.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?235541-Prepping-WW-for-smelt

[Satokad]

Thank you kindly. I tried searching for it, but got too many responses.

[NewbieDave007]

No matter how much you clean them they will still be more that comes off in smelting. Why introduce water if you don't have to?

[bandmiller2]

Sort first then render outdoors and skim crudso off the top. I have an outside wood boiler of my own construction with a ledge to cook or melt stuff. Fill a large cast iron pot with weights and wait a few minutes skim, flux and pour in old muffin tin. Frank C.

[WRideout]

You have to get the steel clips out anyway, so cleaning is just an extra step, it seems. I just melt and flux; small quantities at a time. I used to put everything in together, and let the steel and Zn weights float to the top, but now I sort first, and it does speed up the smelting time. Pinch with side cutters, and after a few tries, you can easily tell the difference between Zn and Pb.

Wayne

[bangerjim]

Just throw them in. Do not clean/ All garbage will float to the top during your 3 fluxing/reducing times.

And do not be afraid of this simple melting process. Many on here face "their first smelting" like it was surgery. It is just melting lead!!!!!!!!! It is not brain surgery or rocket science. Pretty darned hard to mess it up. Just sort out as much of the Zn as you can find. Others, including all the clips, will float. And if you keep your temp under control, so will the zinkers you missed!

Have fun!

bangerjim

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

Like bangerjim says!

CDOC

[cbrick]

Just heat it up use old candle or canning wax for fluxing - lots of wax and lots of stirring - and ladle into your ingot molds.

Just plain Ol'Wheel Weights will be great for your bullets, with no need to add lead or tin! Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

Wax will not flux! . . . Wax cannot flux! Why? Because it is not a flux! Wax's and oils will reduce tin back into the melt but cannot flux.

Adding 2% tin to WW alloy is very beneficial on several levels. Is it mandatory? No, of course not but it is beneficial.

Rick

[Satokad]

OK. One more question. I just got a huge bucket of WW but it looks like some oil or other auto-type fluid got spilled onto some of them. Are they still OK to just melt and flux when they are like that?
Thanks again.

[s mac]

Yes, throw it in your smelting pot, outside, it's going to smoke, stink. Hopefully your downwind of any close neighbors. Any oil will burn off, turn to carbon and float on top, skim it off.

[Satokad]

Thank you. s mac. This is certainly addictive. Broke my Lee slug mold yesterday during the first run (rookie mistake - it wasn't hot enough and I "tapped" it a little too hard). Took it back and they replaced it. I also bought a 452 round ball mold to play with in the 45 Colt. Bought a bucketful of WW today, and I'm already antsy to get my first real bullet mold in (should be in a few days).

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

The big thing to watch out for is water or other liquids that when added to a pot of molten alloy will explode!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! instantly turning to steam.

Had a smelting session today with the new and bigger pot and the turkey cooker and started with a bucket of Wheel Weights which had been sitting outside in the rain.

Have two containers of these old weights and I could only smelt one today.

The wet WW are no problem placing in the pot as you begin the process as they will dry and the water evaporate as things heat up, BUT the second bucket needs to wait until the next smelting session when everything is again cold.

Your oil or?? will as said, smoke and smell but should be OK otherwise.

I don't think I'd want to add any liquid oil to molten alloy, but as a coating on the WW is not likely to cause any safety issues.

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

[Satokad]

I've already started separating them out. I think I'd rather get rid of the zinc and iron ahead of time.
Another question is, for the SOWW, do I just toss it in, sticky tape and all? I'm thinking yes, but thought I'd double check.

[northern smith]

the tape will burn. just keep an eye at the temperature so you can skim off the zn. you may have missed. good luck. let the fun begin.

[NewbieDave007]

If you have enough to justify it, you might smelt the soww apart from the coww.

[cbrick]

for the SOWW, do I just toss it in, sticky tape and all? I'm thinking yes, but thought I'd double check.

COWW and SOWW are two different alloys, the SOWW is much softer and many including me consider it as pure for most purposes. I separate them and mark the ingots which is which. Another point is that if you blend them all together there will never be the same quantity in buckets you melt down so your alloy will never be the same.

Rick

[birddog]

I recommend having them clean enough to identify, the oil won't hurt in the smelting just smoke like crazy. I've not got my setup under control as stated to keep temp. low enough to not melt zinc if it finds it's way into the pot.
Charlie

[Satokad]

I do have the SOWW separated. I read that they were close to pure. I will melt them with the muffins I got that also melted with very little contaminants if I don't have enough to make their own pot's worth.
Thanks again everyone.

[atr]

all the advice already given is good advice !
Rule
#1....NO wet (as in water) or damp ww....
#2....do it outside,,,not in an enclosed space
#3....wear gloves and eye protection
#4....have a can handy to dump the clips into after you have skimmed them off
#5....flux often
BE CAREFUL

[cbrick]

all the advice already given is good advice !
Rule
#1....NO wet (as in water) or damp ww....

If there is any chance of moisture in/on anything going into the pot you must start with an empty pot. Do not chance water being trapped under molten lead, it instantly turns to steam with an expansion ratio of 1,600 to 1 with explosive power and will empty the pot of molten lead all over you and everything else in the area. Think about the power of steam, it drives freight trains and electric generating plants.

If you start with an empty pot any water/moisture on/in the weights will evaporate before it can be trapped under molten lead. This is a safe hobby but like most things common sense goes a very long way.

Rick

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

On my smelting yesterday, as I said earlier, I started with wet (rain water) WW, which is Ok when everything is COLD!

JUST DON'T TRY THAT WHEN YOU HAVE MELTED ALLOY!!!!!!!!!!!!

And yes, I'd sort out the stick on WW and Keep separate from the Clip on WW.

Wish I had lots of them for my 45/70 alloy of 50/50 - WW/lead. I don't

Sorting yesterday, I used a side cutters to check any WW in question, but when skimming the clips etc. I still saw some WW that had not melted. I just skimmed them off with the clips. Unless you check every WW, the chances are good you will miss some bad ones.

I will be glad when I have smelted out the newer WW on hand as sorting is a pain and something never needed with my older stash.

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

[RogerDat]

Back around post 12 you said "round ball" mold. If your casting for cap and ball or muzzle loaders those lead stick on WW are good for that, better than COWW since they are closer to plain lead. Worth keeping SOWW separated. If nothing else keeps your COWW ingots more consistent hardness without different amounts of SOWW in different batches. You can always add in the softer lead, taking it back out not so much.

[Satokad]

Actually, I'm going to use the round ball for fun plinking in the 45 Colt. At least, that's my plan, anyway.

[9w1911]

I like the slow cook method as well, I try to never get my melt above 650.
Also after you sort about three buckets you will be an expert on what to separate.

[ShinyPartsUp]

If people allow, I might ask a newbie question here rather than start yet another thread. I had my first smelt with turkey burner and a cast iron dutch oven. I have a thermometer. I was melting down my reportedly pure lead from a salvaged 4000 pound haul that had been lead shielding for an x-ray room at a hospital. I got about 125 pounds of the stuff. Temperature regulation was not too easy using just the shutoff valve to the propane tank and varied from 575-700 degrees or so, but I was getting the knack. Anyway things went well until I took the thermometer out to get some dross out and start to ladle into my ingot molds. I noticed the surface of the pot was an iridescent blue and end some gold. Some of the ingots had that color as well. My neighbor has cast bullets before and said the pot was hot, but not to worry. I put the thermometer back in and it was about 850 degrees! Most of the ingots cooled and a normal color and uniform consistency was seen, bt a couple of the ingots the next day had areas with the strange coloration. Any ideas if I ruined a lot of lead? Flux was chainsaw droppings from a logging outfit I ran across while hunting last Fall and some candle wax. Thanks in advance.

[cdngunner]

You have 100% PURE lead....colours are indicative of this.

Trade it for wheel weights....1:2

[ShinyPartsUp]

You have 100% PURE lead....colours are indicative of this.

Trade it for wheel weights....1:2

Thank you for reassuring me CDN! I was a bit worried. I appreciate the thought but I have 80 pounds of COWW ingots and 300+ pounds of unsorted wheel weights I got for free from a local tire place. Total cost for all my lead has been less than US $200. I am a very lucky fellow.

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

Shinyparts,

Just finished sorting and smelting some hundreds of Lbs. of the newer and polluted WW and it is a pain, but worth the effort. Have close to 300lbs of smelted WW from that effort and a bunch of older WW to smelt as soon as it stops raining.

Trying to Keep the temp at below the zinc melting point is a pain when your dealing large quantities of dirty WW, and you will miss some of the bad weights as they will look like good ones and it takes a close look or a pair of side cutters to tell the difference. Looking doesn't always tell the story.

With your Clip On Wheel Weights, they will cast most things for handguns and some rifle use WITHOUT the addition of any metal such as tin to the alloy. Millions of WW bullets have been cast and shot.

I have for some years now, quenched my WW bullets and that gives a bit more hardness without cost of additional metals.

Now, as to your haul of pure lead, you can buy an alloy such as linotype from Rotometals, mix 50/50 with the lead and come up with a good shooting alloy at a reasonable cost.

I have been running an ad on a on-line classifieds for some pure lead, and think I have a small amount located, but need lots more to make my 50/50 - WW/lead alloy that I use in my 45/70.

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

[ShinyPartsUp]

Crusty, thanks for taking the time to help me. Funny you mentioned it. I scored 12 pounds of raw pieces of Linotype for $17.79 shipped after using a fleabay coupon. The description read: "This is all original letterpress printing lead, Ludlow castings, Linotype castings, Elrod lead strips, and some foundry type...." so I imagine I'll melt it down and test the BHN with my new Lee Hardness tester (my eyes are old and that scale in the microscope sure is tiny) and see how it goes. I went back to buy more pure lead a couple weeks ago because I bought 10-20 bucks worth each visit to the gun shop, but they had gone through all 4,000 pounds. They charged $1.50 a pound for hunks cut with a chainsaw. I have read SOWW can be considered close to pure and I planned on using those for my black powder ball molds, that sound right? I know it is slow, but I plan on going WW by WW and using dykes until I am very comfortable figuring out what is zinc or steel. I get anal and my friends get frustrated with me sometimes, but I like to do things "right" whenever I can, especially just starting a new project. I have a friend's garand and Mosin to clean for him this weekend, finish melting the pure lead and start sorting the WW. I might find time to pour my first bullets from the COWW I have in ingots after I read up on preparing my new aluminum molds and used Lyman steel ones. What fun!

I already have a guy at work asking if I'll do some for him. I need to make sure I get to the range and woods. This gets addictive, doesn't it?

[RogerDat]

I use the dikes and nip test but then tap against magnet to sort the scrap into steel and zinc buckets. Scrap yard gives me 30 cents a lb. for zinc and 9 cents a lb. for the steel. I would contact forum member shadygrady to swap zinc for something else but only had 15 lbs. not enough to be worth shipping.

Was nice to get money from the scrap yard instead of giving money, even if just $7 that they got back the next day. Sigh.

[cdngunner]

After starting this smelting/casting craze a month or so ago, i have been successful in obtaining about 537lbs of finished lead ingots for my friend and myself. I think in total we have paid about $200 cdn. i am still waiting to hear from a friend about another 100lbs ofr so of lead wire sheath. I am now turning my attention to finding some tin.

[ShinyPartsUp]

I sorted half a bucket of WW yesterday and almost 1/2 (guestimate) was steel, a few Zinc and not much (couple pounds) of SOWW. I used the sorting techniques mentioned including the magnet test. I was getting good at telling the difference. Killed me when I threw a COWW into the steel bucket by mistake. Couldn't find it. Anyway, I must have done well as I watched the temp like a hawk and it never went above 650F; not one steel or Zinc weight floated to the top. Thanks for the tips. Three full buckets left to go.

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

Shinyparts,

Your comments show that the end of lead WW is RAPIDY coming. Yours was not a good ratio and a real bad sign. Better luck with the rest of your WW.

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

[ShinyPartsUp]

Shinyparts,

Your comments show that the end of lead WW is RAPIDY coming. Yours was not a good ratio and a real bad sign. Better luck with the rest of your WW.

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot


Have hope. I live only 125 miles north of Commiefornia. Lead WW are outlawed there. A lot of tires end up here on part-time residents and retiree cars. The ratio in other parts of the country are likely higher until lead is abandoned. I also noticed the larger WW are mostly lead. Perhaps because for steel to be the same weight they would be too bulky?