Trouble with pan lube

[Woodwrkr]

I'm trying to get started casting on a slim budget and I havn't bought a lubrisizer yet but if I don't get a handle on this pan lubing stuff pretty soon it may drive me to drink.

The bullet I decided to start out with is the Lee 452-230-TC (not the tumble lube version but the regular lube groove type). The lubes I have been trying to use are as follows:

Johnson Paste Wax

LLA mule snot

one pound parafin wax, one pound petroleum jelly, two table spoons STP.

The LLA mule snot is easy enough to use but it sure is ugly, I don't like the idea of the dried LLA inside my seating die and I don't want to clean the dried LLA off the nose of every .45 ACP cartridge before I go to the range.

I tried warming the boolits in the oven and then swishing them around in a small glob of the JPW but that leaves such a thin layer of lube on the boolit I'm afraid I'm not going to have enough lube and will be leading my bore.

Dipping the boolits in melted JPW is difficult, the short, fat TC boolits are difficult to hold onto and when I seat the boolits or try to push them thru the Lee sizer to remove the excess lube (they have allready been sized once) I make a terrible mess of the loading press and dies.

Dipping the boolits in melted parafin lube has the same results as dipping in the melted JPW.

The lube groove seems (to my very uneducated eyes) to be rather shallow and when I try to push the boolits out of a cake of hardened parafin lube the lube doesn't allways stay in the lube groove, especially if the boolit doesn't fill out perfectly and leaves rounded corners.

Yes, I know I'm not supposed to have rounded corners, I'm still working on my casting techniques. I'm going to give the mold a good cleaning and see if that helps.

Does anyone have any suggestions for a newbie?

[wiljen]

What you didn't say about JPW or LLA is that you'd shot them and their performance wasn't satisfactory. I have a suspicion that you are concerned more about the look of things than the use of them. I think if you are worried about ugly, you'll need a lube-sizer to put that nice red or blue band around the boolits. If you can get past the ugly, I have used both LLA and JPW and both work just fine. Yes a little clean up is involved with the seating dies but nothing a little heat and a few q-tips can't take care of.

Try mixing LLA 4 parts to 1 part paint thinner and then use it. It applies a much lighter coating that is still enough to prevent leading in my 9mm,38, and 45 ACP.

[Woodwrkr]

I havn't actually taken any of them to the range yet, I've been casting and lubing for the first time the last few days and plan on testing them soon. The JPW and LLA will probably work great from all the reports I've read, they're just messy and in some cases troublesome.

Does the LLA work OK with the regular lube groove boolit? Also will I be OK shooting the LLA lubed boolits without cleaning the LLA off the nose of the loaded cartridges?

Another thing, If (when?) I do buy a lubrisizer is a top punch available for the Lee TC boolit? Will the Lyman #374 top punch (devastator hollow point) work with the Lee TC boolit?

[jonk]

The LLA works fine without cleaning it off of the nose of the loaded bullet. I never do. If anything it works better, especially for nose riding bullets, upset bullets, etc.- in short the lube at worst just goes along for the ride and at best might lube something.

Regarding the seating die issue- I have NEVER cleaned out a die- yes lube can leave a residue but not enough to cause trouble, and a few jacketed rounds will pull out the lube well- albeit stuck to the jacketed bullets. I usually DO wipe those down before shooting.

[scrapcan]

be careful with lube build up if you are going to load for high pressure short brass rounds (9mm, 40S&W). A minimal change in seating depth can cause large pressure differences. But as stated, the dies are easy to clean and keeping track of seating depth should be done anyway.

[Woodwrkr]

[QUOTE=jonk;265790]The LLA works fine without cleaning it off of the nose of the loaded bullet. I never do.

Regarding the seating die issue- I have NEVER cleaned out a die


Both points are good to hear. Since the JPW is available locally I'm thinking I'll go with the JPW using the dipping method since the messy dies doesn't present a problem.

Thanks for the help.

[KCSO]

You need to make you some cookie cutters. Put the bullet in the pan and pour the lube till it just coveres the lube groove but not up to the nose of the bullet, then cut the bullets from the pan with the cookie cutter. My favorite cutter is a modified 45-70 shell with a handle and an ejector assembly. You push down on the cutter and then pop the bullet out in the box.

[Woodwrkr]

Thanks KCSO.

I havn't been able to find any tubing the right wall thickness and diameter. That 45-70 shell would be perfect. Thin wall and just a smudge larger in dia. than the .45 ACP.

Great idea!

[ben1025]

I don't do much pan lubing but when I do I use a fired round with rear cut off. Soder it to a copper pipe. Don't need to be sodered all around the case. The pipe will act as a reservoir and something to hang on to. Works great for me. ben1025

[RU shooter]

This is how I started pan lubing and has worked perfectly for me Just follow the directions and it works great with simple lube of Bees wax and vasoline 3:1 and as of late a stick or 2 of C red for good measure! try it it works!

http://goatlipstips.cas-town.com/panlubing.html

[Morgan Astorbilt]

This is how I pan lube my schuetzen bullets, which are never sized. I purchase an 8"x8" x2" aluminum cake pan, cut a piece of 1/2" board 7-3/4"x7-3/4", and drill as many holes a loose bullet fit, as it will hold loading block style, but completely through. Screw in a pair of 2" wood screws, one on each side as lifting handles. This board is placed in the pan bottom, and filled with bullets. The board keeps the bullets from knocking each other over domino-style, when placing them in the pan.

When the lube is melted, CAREFULLY lift the board, and pour the lube in untill covering all the lube grooves. When cool, the bullets should be easy lift out of the pan with the block of lube, and pop out with your thumb. No cake cutter needed. If not, place in the refrigerator for a few minutes to harden the lube a bit.

This is SOP among the schuetzen crowd, unless using a Pope lubricator.
Morgan

[Blackhawk Convertable]

I just tumble lubed for the first time with Johnson's Paste Wax the other day . I used a 1 gallon jug with the top 1/3 partially cut off. I did melt the paste down to a liquid before I used it. When lubed, I dumped them onto a sheet pan with wax paper to dry. The next day (around 24 hours later) they were dry. Other than the smell which infiltrated the house, it worked great.

[DonH]

This is how I pan lube my schuetzen bullets, which are never sized. I purchase an 8"x8" x2" aluminum cake pan, cut a piece of 1/2" board 7-3/4"x7-3/4", and drill as many holes a loose bullet fit, as it will hold loading block style, but completely through. Screw in a pair of 2" wood screws, one on each side as lifting handles. This board is placed in the pan bottom, and filled with bullets. The board keeps the bullets from knocking each other over domino-style, when placing them in the pan.

When the lube is melted, CAREFULLY lift the board, and pour the lube in untill covering all the lube grooves. When cool, the bullets should be easy lift out of the pan with the block of lube, and pop out with your thumb. No cake cutter needed. If not, place in the refrigerator for a few minutes to harden the lube a bit.

This is SOP among the schuetzen crowd, unless using a Pope lubricator.
Morgan

This has been my lubing method (except for the block) since starting in schuetzen and BPCR. I tried it with some of the hard lube so popular nowdays and had to make a cookie cutter to cut through the stuff. Guess I understand now why some are so resistant to pan lubing. I'm not sure I see the need for a lube as hard as some are.
I have been working some with the parafin/vaselin/STP lube but have added lanolin in an amount equal to the STP. It has worked well so far at vel. up to 1500 fps. It works well for pan lubing, requiring no cookie cutter but needs to be put in freezer to break the lube cake loose from the pan.

[jonk]

Ditto on checking the overall length, especially if you don't clean the die. I check, and also will add that even just eyeballing is ok for initial check- IF you for instance are seating to an easily identifiable depth, like a crimp groove. Still check with calipers- though I rarely use max loads.

[Woodwrkr]

I would like to be able to push the boolits out of a hardened cake of lube but when I try that with this particular Lee boolit the lube sometimes doesn't stay in the shallow groove. This is my first boolit mold so I'm not sure but some of the other boolit designs with deeper grooves, steeper angles on the sides of the groove and more prominent corners should work great when pushing the boolits out of a cake of lube. It just doesn't allways work well with this particular Lee boolit. I'm going to cobble together a cooke cutter tonight and give it a whirl with both parafin/petroleum jelly lube as well as the JPW.

Blackhawk Convertible: When you tumble lube with the JPW how thick a coating of JPW is left on the boolit? Would I need to separate the boolits so they aren't touching each other as they dry?

I've just ordered my second mold, the #358429. when it arrives I'm going to try pushing them out of a cake of hardened lube, it should work better with the Keith boolit if I guess correctly.

I'm also going to try lining the bottom of the pan with a sheet of butchers freezer paper or parchment paper before pouring the melted lube. That should make it easy to dump a cake of hardened lube/boolits out on an old towel and begin preparing another pan of lube/boolits.

Thanks for all the help guys!

[GSM]

Woodwrkr:

If you get a chance, look for Rooster Labs product called Rooster Jacket. It's a dip and dry method. The finished coating is almost like a thin shellac.

[DonH]

I would like to be able to push the boolits out of a hardened cake of lube but when I try that with this particular Lee boolit the lube sometimes doesn't stay in the shallow groove. This is my first boolit mold so I'm not sure but some of the other boolit designs with deeper grooves, steeper angles on the sides of the groove and more prominent corners should work great when pushing the boolits out of a cake of lube. It just doesn't allways work well with this particular Lee boolit. I'm going to cobble together a cooke cutter tonight and give it a whirl with both parafin/petroleum jelly lube as well as the JPW.

Blackhawk Convertible: When you tumble lube with the JPW how thick a coating of JPW is left on the boolit? Would I need to separate the boolits so they aren't touching each other as they dry?

I've just ordered my second mold, the #358429. when it arrives I'm going to try pushing them out of a cake of hardened lube, it should work better with the Keith boolit if I guess correctly.

I'm also going to try lining the bottom of the pan with a sheet of butchers freezer paper or parchment paper before pouring the melted lube. That should make it easy to dump a cake of hardened lube/boolits out on an old towel and begin preparing another pan of lube/boolits.

Thanks for all the help guys!

Re: the parafin/vaseline lube, I add lanolin to the mix. I have read that the lanolin aids in sticking the lube to the bullet. I don't know if this is true but my lube sticks to a variety of bullet designs so I lean toward toward believing it to be true. I have pan lubed H&G 68 SWC bullets with the above mix and the lube stuck in the round-bottom groove just fine. This lube DOES have a tendency to stick to the pan and after trying different things to overcome that problem I finally just settled on placing the pan in the freezer for a bit which breaks the bond between lube and pan. Some of these things related to pan lubing are a bit of a hassle but can be worth putting up with if one has a mold for a bullet which does not require sizing or the proper size/lube die is not at hand.

Lanolin (anhydrous) may be purchased online from Majestic Mountain Sage, a company selling products for making soaps, lotions, etc.

[Scrounger]

Lanolin can also be bought, possibly cheaper, on good old EBAY.

[Ricochet]

Lanolin sure is sticky stuff!

And on things like rifle bolts that are a little rough (like old Mosins, Turk Mausers and Gewehr 88s), when applied to the camming surfaces it slickens 'em better than anything else.

[Woodwrkr]

Lanolin sounds like good stuff. How much should I add to the parafin wax/petroleum jelly recipe?

[Blackhawk Convertable]

I tried as best I could to get them not touching, but wasn't anal about it. I moved them around once or twice while they were drying that night and the next day they were done

[redgum]

Lanolin sounds like good stuff. How much should I add to the parafin wax/petroleum jelly recipe?

I'd prolly just substitute 1/3 of your total p.jelly to start and see how it goes. There are no strict rules or methods, just try to find what works for you :)

[wiljen]

I made a 3 lbs coffee can worth of felix lube today including lanolin, jojoba, and carnuaba wax. If you'll kindly PM me your address, I'll send you enough to get you started. If you like it, you can get the recipe off this site or castpics. If you don't, at least you arent out anything.

[Woodwrkr]

I made a 3 lbs coffee can worth of felix lube today including lanolin, jojoba, and carnuaba wax. If you'll kindly PM me your address, I'll send you enough to get you started. If you like it, you can get the recipe off this site or castpics. If you don't, at least you arent out anything.

Thanks for the offer but I'm allready up to my ears in lube with so many different options I'm not quite sure which one(s) to try first.:confused: I've got at least 3 different lubes on hand right now and if I can't make any of them work out well I'll give you a holler.

'preciate the help!

[calsite]

Good stuff, good information + pictures...... Especially for us newbee's

[DonH]

Lanolin sounds like good stuff. How much should I add to the parafin wax/petroleum jelly recipe?

For this lube I used the Darr recipe which is equal parts of parafin and petroleum jelly plus two tablespoons of STP per pound of the 50/50 mix. I added a like amount of lanolin to the mix. As the mix is a tad softer than I would have liked, I probably could have omitted the STP or a bit of the p.j. I would not lessen the parafin as that would only soften the lube further. As lanolin is expensive I try to not get carried away with the amount I add to a recipe. Actually a little goes a long way due to the lubricity of the stuff. It has been used as a drawing lube so probably has a greater film strength than most things we put in lubes.

FWIW, a pound of lanolin will go a long way. When I first started making lube for BPCR shooting, about six years ago, I bought lanolin from Majestic Mountain Sage. At he time it seems the price was $7 -$8 per pound. To get more from my shipping cost i ordered two pounds. To date I may have used one of them and have fired a lot of shots.

[kooz]

I still have not cast any bullets yet, but I have had 500 .45acp bullets sitting in my reloading room for about 15 years now that someone else cast and never lubed or sized. I used the Lee alox and used it per the directions, then ran them thru a .452 lee sizer and did not relube. Well I had my doubts due to the very thin coating and the fact that I did not relube them. Took my daughter to the range this morning and blazed thru about 150rds of them and did not have a spec of leading !! I was pretty suprised, worked like a champ.