crimping the blank load for the 44-40

[doc1876]

I have been using a Henry for a while in CW, and have been using Buffalo Blanks, however, I was informed that they were not going to be able to supply anymore 5 in 1s. So I bought about 300 .303 British, and have cut them down, and am ready to reload but can't figure how to cheaply crimp them. There are several "Mounted Action Blank Loading Crimpers" out there for about $80, but that makes my savings on blanks go right out the window.......any ideas?

[LUBEDUDE]

Funny that you bring this up. I was just thinking about how to get around that expensive die myself the other day.

I don't like the idea of "stuffing" the shell and having "inert" media fly out the barrel.

I don't know if a custom die could be had any cheaper?

[GRUMPA]

This is the only way I know of but it does take a special crimp die.

101986

[doc1876]

...I still hope I am wrong, and someone is able to come up with some "magic" idea.....????

[MattOrgan]

Been through this when I was driving a horse insane participating in Cowboy Mounted Shooting. I know how expensive the sanctioned match blanks were, the $75.00 C-H crimper for 45 Long Colt and a couple of pounds of 1F black powder was a bargain for practice and non sanctioned events. I doubt there is a safe magic solution.

[jmorris]

I modified a die to roll crimp my homemade shot rounds.
http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o213/jmorrismetal/reloading/45%20acp%20shotshell%20die/IMG_20140324_174317_588_zpsbb497e50.jpg

[doc1876]

that could maybe work. What did you do and how?

[too many things]

try a 44mag crimp die and see if it will work. to just make a roll on top .
you can cut wads with a FIRED 45 colt or 45 acp case using a LID from a cottage cheese or something like . it will fit tight useing a 45 seat die. and just a slight roll
I use them in a 444mag case to load 410 shells and works fine

[doc1876]

TMT:
this is similar to the idea that I had with the 44-40 or the 45 die, but I did not want to ruin a good seater die....I will pick up a used one, and abuse it.
Thanks

[SWANEEDB]

TMT:
this is similar to the idea that I had with the 44-40 or the 45 die, but I did not want to ruin a good seater die....I will pick up a used one, and abuse it.
Thanks

Hi Doc, Have not had a chance to do what I said in a PM too you but will get at it ASAP, I have in the past duplicated the crimp on ammo companies experimental shotshells.

[doc1876]

thanks Swaneedb, I am in no hurry, as I am at work, and won't be home until Wednesday.......It is a long story

[jmorris]

that could maybe work. What did you do and how?

The part that holds the overshot wad down and crimps is in the photo to the right.

Just a 1/2" bolt turned down with a sleeve that was concaved with a 1/2" ball end mill.

[doc1876]

The part that holds the overshot wad down and crimps is in the photo to the right.

Just a 1/2" bolt turned down with a sleeve that was concaved with a 1/2" ball end mill.

That is not only simple, it is real trick! Thanks, this is another project that I can and will do.

[SWANEEDB]

102706102707[QUOTE=doc1876;2734396]That is not only simple, it is real trick! Thanks, this is another project that I can and will do.

OK Doc, Is this what you are trying to accomplish? Hope I can get pic's posted. Hey we gotter did.

[jmorris]

Can you post details of the die you made to creat the crimp?

[SWANEEDB]

Can you post details of the die you made to creat the crimp?

Sure, First off the center of the crimp 'hole' is not as big as the photo shows, I ordered a 'large blank crimp insert' from C-H 4D, cost sent to me was $35.80, part # BC-102, had a lyman universal depriming die housing which was just about the right size for the insert, wrapped it once with tape and now it fits snug. Made this for making black powder blanks, looks like it will do the job for any caliber, also should work for making shot loads, just don't want to shoot to many at one time or else I'm sure there would be a leading issue. The pic is showing 5 in one and 38 spl, making black powder blanks the primer flash hole should be inlarged quite abit. That's about it, ?'s just ask.
Cheers, Woof woof Gus an me.

[jmorris]

Can you take the die apart and post photos?

[SWANEEDB]

102762
Can you take the die apart and post photos?


This is it, quite simple (Ha, if I can do it so can you), I used a RCBS expander punch, lets me adjust for different case lengths.

[doc1876]

Swaneedb, yup, this is it. I will try both your idea, and the one from Jmorris. I have an extra .45LC set, and I am sure it will do the same as the universal, but if not, I do have one of those too.
I will be getting a crimp insert for sure. I am glad I don't have to spend even half as much. this makes better sense
Thanks

ps
I called these people last week, and they not once indicated that the insert would work. They did seem like nice people, just not really knowledgeable of what their produce would do.I am glad you got it to work.
Steve

[SWANEEDB]

Swaneedb, yup, this is it. I will try both your idea, and the one from Jmorris. I have an extra .45LC set, and I am sure it will do the same as the universal, but if not, I do have one of those too.
I will be getting a crimp insert for sure. I am glad I don't have to spend even half as much. this makes better sense
Thanks

ps
I called these people last week, and they not once indicated that the insert would work. They did seem like nice people, just not really knowledgeable of what their produce would do.I am glad you got it to work.
Steve

Hey Steve, I ordered the insert really on a whim, did not know if it would work or not, your right about nice folks there but was a little short on giving me info, so I just took a chance.

[Larry Gibson]

If the formed 44-40 cases are the same OAL the seating die should roll crimp the blanks also. Get a couple jacketed .41 Magnum bullets and set them on top of the seated over powder wad. Adjust the seating die to give a good roll crimp and adjust the seating stem so the .44 bullet holds the over powder wad just under the roll crimp as it is crimped. The same .41 jacketed bullet is used for the following blanks. I find the Hornady 210 gr XTP worked well for the batch of 44-40 BP blanks I made up.

Larry Gibson

[jmorris]

This is it, quite simple (Ha, if I can do it so can you), I used a RCBS expander punch, lets me adjust for different case lengths.

Thanks, could you post one more photo of the insert with a view of the surface that does the star crimp?

[SWANEEDB]

Thanks, could you post one more photo of the insert with a view of the surface that does the star crimp?

Yes I can but not for a few days, camera has gone south, not sure when it'll come home.

[doc1876]

btw,
I started with cut down .303 empties, cut to same length of 44-40 loaded. My plan is to 3/4 load with Black, and then wad and crimp. With the loss of height due to the crimp, it should just slide in like a 5 in 1 blank (of which I have close to 300, so I used them for sizing also).
The .303s are so plentiful and cheep, I can just lever from horseback, and not worry about catching valuable brass. The plastic 5 in ones are not re-loadable, but cost about the same as brass, so I reaqlly am glad I won't have to rely on them any more.
I heard of someone using 44 sp cases, something about they are longer than 44-40, and not as expensive????
when I get home, I will give you the length of cut.

[jmorris]

Yes I can but not for a few days, camera has gone south, not sure when it'll come home.

No problem, thank you.

[HABCAN]

When doing the gunfights at the Calgary Stampede, I had a set of RCBS '5-in-1 Blank' dies specifically for making blanks that fit almost everything, and like you, cut off .303 Brit cases. 2.0 grs. B'eye to get the dirty black out the muzzle before it ignited BOOM, a caseful of 2F, a card wad and a heavy crimp. The cases could be reloaded umpteen times, the trick was to find where you'd dropped them! (Most of us just carried enough guns we didn't need to reload.)

[doc1876]

Ok,
I cut the .303 down to 1.580, and then had to anneal the heck out of it, as the .303 shoulders are way too tough for my machine, I am now happy with the shoulder and crimping. I am waiting on a new set of case holders, and the one I have won't fit (you have to have one for the .303!!). I think Swaneeb had the right formula, and I am looking forward to running some next monday when I get home, to see how they feed in the Henry.
But, Yes the insert is going to work great, I just have to set a spacer in the Lee decapper to take up the excess room so things will fall in line.
The Universal Decapper is the way to go, as the .45 and .44-40 are too small for the crimper insert to go into.
But Habcan, this is the reason for me wanting to do this, just eject and go. 5 in ones are expensive. (of course I got the 303s cheep, I see where they are becoming somewhat of a premium too now, huh!!)

[doc1876]

104132104133

this should be the pics of the crimp. Mine came in, and I use the phone to take them. It works good, and the thing is SHARP!!

[doc1876]

If any one is still following this, here is the Crimper tool that I put together, using SWANEEBDs help, and It works well. It also is the decapper tool.
I am having to trim the .303 rims down to .504, and am using the case holder for the 44-40 for the go-nogo gauge. these now feed in the Uberti Henry very well.
the rod is a 5x24 4 inches long that I cut down that I picked up at Lowes. Using the 5x24 nuts, and pining the end in the crimp tool (that was the hardest part)
Again thanks for the ideas, I am getting geared up for the next season.