This lube, that lube, what lube?

[AggiePharmD]

I've been reading and reading but have found no type of chart for bullet lube vs velocity. Does it exist?

I'm looking for something for both pistol and rifle with a max fps of 100 is to as low as 600 for cowboy action loads. Must also be able to be used w/o a lubrisizer.

[357maximum]

Welcome to the fray, .....a chart such as you seek is not needed.............

If a lube will handle speed with accuracy in a rifle it will normally take a pistol in stride.

....keep reading,


Mike

[Bullshop]

Speed Green for cooler weather and Lotak for hotter weather.
Both available from The Bullshop.
Link at bottom

[AggiePharmD]

Well in TX I don't think our cold is your cold so I can probably scratch that particular need.:lol:

Thanks

[Bullshop]

That's why God made ice portable.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

I've been reading and reading but have found no type of chart for bullet lube vs velocity. Does it exist?

I'm looking for something for both pistol and rifle with a max fps of 100 is to as low as 600 for cowboy action loads. Must also be able to be used w/o a lubrisizer.

Are you looking to make your own ?
If so, read this thread.
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?232371-Hey-357-maximum-lubes

OR are you looking to buy ?
If you looking to buy, Bullshop will not steer you wrong. He has some very good lubes.
If you're in TX, I'd assume Lotak is the best bet.

[w5pv]

I don't think you can go wrong with Ben's Red if you are going make your own.I have used it in everthing from 32 cal to 45 and approx 2200 or so in 3006 that was gas checked.

[JWFilips]

i don't think you can go wrong with ben's red if you are going make your own.i have used it in everthing from 32 cal to 45 and approx 2200 or so in 3006 that was gas checked.

+1!!!!

[RobS]

I'm reading your first post and I'm guessing you are looking for a range from 1,000 fps??? for rifle and then cowboy loads around 600 fps. If that is the case and you do not have a lubrisizer then Recluse 45/45/10 works well and you could make it or have While Label Lube ship you out a similar version. This is a tumble lube which does work but like any cast boolit, fit is critical or leading and diminished accuracy will yield the results.

Another option as others have expressed is to use a lubrisizer type lube as just about any soft to moderately soft lube that could be used in a lubrisizer can be used to pan lube.

http://www.lsstuff.com/store/

The Recluse lube is call the Delux Liquid lube 45-45-10 and is under the liquid lubes/xlox tab on the left column

[MBTcustom]

Another plug for White Label Lubes here. I'm biased because they are local and I love them, but I wouldn't hesitate to buy from Bullshop either.
If you are looking to make your own, FWFL is the best all around lube I have used. Good for the hand cannons and the speed demons, but you have to take very special care to record what you did and when you did it, and how much you did, otherwise each batch will be different.
Also, there's Speed Green. Good stuff.
For pistol, there's the NRA formula using beeswax and grease. Old standby.

[geargnasher]

...
For pistol, there's the NRA formula using beeswax and grease. Old standby.

You feelin' ok, Tim?

Aggie, since we both live adjacent to the hinges of Hades, you may find some of the lubes we developed along the way of the Quest for Extreme Lube to be handy, no ice required. Not pan-lube friendly, but most definitely "finger-lube and shove through a Lee push-through sizer die" friendly.

Gear

[MBTcustom]

You feelin' ok, Tim?
Gear

Not really, but it will pass soon. LOL!
I don't know where the OP is in his experience level. I was just giving options, and it was at the end of the list you know.

You know I'm no expert on lube. I was just giving my opinion such as it is, and what I would try if I were him. Not saying it's right, but bullseye shooters have been using the NRA recipe for years with excellent results.
Heck you know more than I do about this stuff. Which specific lube would you recommend if not simple green for a guy looking for a tried and true answer?
LLA?
:kidding:

[btroj]

If Gear ever recommends LLA I will personally request a psych evaluation.

So much of a lube choice comes down to temp level it will be shot in, type of lube method, what sort of pressure, guns, and velocities, and desire to make or buy.

I have a good idea I know what Gear would recommend for high temp handgun use.

['74 sharps]

Check out the White Label line.....fine products.

[MBTcustom]

If Gear ever recommends LLA I will personally request a psych evaluation.



Yep. Think I'd just give away my lead stash and hang it up m'self. LOL!

[cbrick]

Must also be able to be used w/o a lubrisizer.

No lubrisizer? Here's a chance to save a little money on one if your interested.

SAECO Lubrisizer (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?236723-SAECO-Lubrisizer)

I agree, if I had to use LLA and tumble lube it's safe to say I've cast my last boolit.

Rick

[shredder]

That's why God made ice portable.

Ha HA Very nice!! Another vote for speed green. It is all I use and has never failed me in any caliber in any weather.

[Ed_Shot]

My vote is for White Label 2500+. I only have one Lyman 450 and 2500+ works great on everything from .380 to 30-06. Love it.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

I've been reading and reading but have found no type of chart for bullet lube vs velocity. Does it exist?

I'm looking for something for both pistol and rifle with a max fps of 100 is to as low as 600 for cowboy action loads. Must also be able to be used w/o a lubrisizer.

with the discussion of Alox and re-reading your OP mentioning, "cowboy action loads" maybe you might want to try NRA 50-50 lube, although no longer made with the Alox 2138F, White Labels Lube offers a nearly exact copy called 50/50 Beeswax-Xlox.
http://www.lsstuff.com/
It is smoky !
It doesn't smoke like Black powder, but it smokes more than most other lubes..But it's fairly soft and probably won't be the best for TX...but it should give some of that cowboy action feel :)

[btroj]

For low velocity handgun loads 45/45/10 works well. Make sure the bullet fits and it works very well.

[AggiePharmD]

Thanks for all of the info. My experience level ZERO and all I have is one mould, handle and some gas checks in transit. I'm exploring options and may wind up with the Lyman master kit with the 4500 to get started but until that is final I want to keep my options open. I'd like to only have one lube for simplicity sake.

[geargnasher]

The simplest thing for you to do, unless you think you'll get a bigger kick out of making your own lube, is to buy White Label "BAC" lube or one of the offerings of the Bullshop or TAC #1 from member Randyrat. Most of the commercially-available stuff (like you'd get at Midway, etc.) is a LOT more expensive and really not as good as what these other "cottage industry" folks make themselves, after all, they are real shooters just like the rest of us here.

Gear

[45fan]

Well personally I shoot 38, 45acp and 44 mag so I shoot in the velocity range you are asking about. I have used nothing but Recluse 45/45/10 lube and had no issues what so ever with leading from my 45acp plinking loads (my wife only shoot my 1911 with these loads) to some fairly hot 44 mag as well. I really dont have any experience using anything other than this and tumble lubing. It is so easy and does what it is supposed to do, so why mess with lubsizers or pan lubing. I dont shoot any high velocity rifle rounds so that may call for another lube other than tumble lubing with 45/45/10, but for what you describe as the shooting you will be doing this lube cant be beat. I would venture to guess if somebody gets leading using this lube at these velocities they have sizing issues not lube issue.

[psychicrhino]

So, how do you work an Aggie to death? Just put 'em in a round room and tell 'em to go stand in the corner :kidding:

Hook 'em!!! ;-)

This is a good read and timely for me. I am in Texas too and started rounding up stuff to cast and reload with a year ago, finally got some bullets cast a bit ago and just about have everything together to start reloading. A pharmacist might enjoy making his own? I am going to start loading for my .38 spl first in the velocities you mentioned. I also keep bees and rendered a bunch of old brood comb this week (they really do not yield much wax....had to see for my self though) and plan to try a formula I read about here first. (no lubrisizer for me either). I have bought a couple of sizer dies that came with the Lees Liquid Alox but have read that it is really messy/ sticky with a long dry time. I read a lot about the 45% LLA/45% Johnson Paste Wax/ 10% Mineral Spirits and it seems pretty popular for tumble lube (there is a really good thread with pics somewhere here). I also read a thread with a variant using 45%LLA/45% Bees Wax/10 % naptha because I really do get a kick out of "rolling my own". (God bless my wife and the messes I make). I would be glad to send you a chunk of this bees wax to play with if you want to send me a PM. Lots of folks have been very helpful in kind to me here.

PsychicRhino

[SniderBoomer]

I can't praise Bens' Red enough as a nitro lube for lo and hi velocity pistol and rifle.

Does everything, easy to work with.

Thanks Ben.

[dverna]

The simplest thing for you to do, unless you think you'll get a bigger kick out of making your own lube, is to buy White Label "BAC" lube or one of the offerings of the Bullshop or TAC #1 from member Randyrat. Most of the commercially-available stuff (like you'd get at Midway, etc.) is a LOT more expensive and really not as good as what these other "cottage industry" folks make themselves, after all, they are real shooters just like the rest of us here.

Gear

You cannot go wrong with the advice above. As a new caster, making your own lube is a waste of time - unless time has no value to you. And if you have a problem you will wonder if you made the goop properly. The commercial lubes above are not expensive and known to work. KISS

Don Verna

[canyon-ghost]

Somewhere over by Amarillo..... I use the 4500 and Carnuba Red. Two Blackhawks, three 9mms and a couple of Contenders keep me very busy. White Label is good, after you heat the Carnuba Red, it isn't nearly as hard (have the Lyman pin heater for it). The softer one, BAC is pretty good too. Light cherry scent is pleasant.

Good Luck,
Ron

[selmerfan]

Aggie - if your Krag likes the boolits I sent you and you get a pretty lube star on the muzzle and holes landing close together down range, I'm using Bullshop's Lotak Hard. I highly recommend it.

[Ben]

I can't praise Bens' Red enough as a nitro lube for lo and hi velocity pistol and rifle.

Does everything, easy to work with.

Thanks Ben.

You are much more than welcome.

ENJOY ! !

Ben

[Recluse]

I agree, if I had to use LLA and tumble lube it's safe to say I've cast my last boolit.

Rick

Heh.

If I had to lubesize every single boolit I cast for handguns, it's virtually guaranteed that I would stop casting. I've gone back and forth over the years from lubeiszing to tumble-lubing back to lubesizing and for the past few years, if it gets fired in a handgun (exception being 9mm, which I just about don't cast for anymore anyhow), it gets tumble-lubed with 45/45/10.

All .358 boolits and all .452 boolits get tumble-lubed. Using a stick lube on .45ACP is simply a waste of lube and the time it takes to apply it. I've been pushing some seriously hot .357 Magnums for several years now with 45/45/10--no leading, consistent and steady accuracy. When I'm feeling particularly masochistic, I cast up some .356 102RN boolits for the .380ACP. Lubesizing them would drive me crazy.

Rifle boolits? They all go through the lubesizer.

I do not pain-lube. I'd rather come out of retirement and go to work for the BLM being a taser dummy than go through the madness of pain-lubing, which for the new members is what I refer pan-lubing as.

For Cowboy Action shooting loads and ammo? Tumble-lube it, load it, shoot it and be done with it. Concentrate your lube and sizing efforts on your long gun stuff.

:coffee:

[MBTcustom]

I'm with Recluse albeit quite a bit further behind.
I started running 45acp with RCBS green like my dad taught me to do.
Then I discovered LLA, and I bought the Lee 6 cavity 230 RN TL mold. Hmmm! this is easier, but "sticky".
Then I read about 45/45/10. Easy! stickyless! awesome!
Been doing that till a few weeks ago, when it dawned on me that accuracy just doesn't seem to quite be where it used to. (probably my imagination and the fact that I am not shooting near as much)
I now have a Star lube sizer, so I traded my mold to frkelly74 for a truncated cone 6 cav with a lube groove.
I'm setting the 45-45-10 aside for a little while and I'm going to see what I can do with the standard grease groove and the offerings from White Label Lubes.
Here in another year or two, I'll probably go back to 45-45-10.
By the time I'm in my 50s, I should be able to tell anybody, without hesitation, and complete confidence........how much it really doesn't matter. LOL!

[cbrick]

Heh.

If I had to lubesize every single boolit I cast for handguns, it's virtually guaranteed that I would stop casting. I've gone back and forth over the years from lubeiszing to tumble-lubing back to lubesizing and for the past few years, if it gets fired in a handgun (exception being 9mm, which I just about don't cast for anymore anyhow), it gets tumble-lubed with 45/45/10.

All .358 boolits and all .452 boolits get tumble-lubed. Using a stick lube on .45ACP is simply a waste of lube and the time it takes to apply it. I've been pushing some seriously hot .357 Magnums for several years now with 45/45/10--no leading, consistent and steady accuracy. When I'm feeling particularly masochistic, I cast up some .356 102RN boolits for the .380ACP. Lubesizing them would drive me crazy.

Rifle boolits? They all go through the lubesizer.

I do not pain-lube. I'd rather come out of retirement and go to work for the BLM being a taser dummy than go through the madness of pain-lubing, which for the new members is what I refer pan-lubing as.

For Cowboy Action shooting loads and ammo? Tumble-lube it, load it, shoot it and be done with it. Concentrate your lube and sizing efforts on your long gun stuff. :coffee:

That's why there is more than one way to do it. That's why I said "if I had to tumble lube" I have cast my last boolit. None of the mess, no lube all over the noses, no lube filling up the seating die, no lube coming off in my pocket. By the time you wait for the goo to dry I'll be at the range shooting mine.

But hey, if it makes ya happy go for it. Lot's of folks tumble lube but it's not for me, just too messy.

Rick

[cbrick]

By the time I'm in my 50s, I should be able to tell anybody, without hesitation, and complete confidence........how much it really doesn't matter. LOL!

For a whole lot of the shooting done it really doesn't matter much which of the from decent to excellent lubes are used. For some calibers, velocities, temps etc it can matter a bunch. All depends on what your shooting, what you expect and how much tinkering you want to do.

Rick

[Bullshop Junior]

I'm currently using white label 2500+ and it's working alright, but I don't know how it will hold up in the summer here. I have made a batch of speed green that I will probably use in the summer here because I will be out the the white label lube by then.

I personally haven't used lotak, hard or soft, but if he says it works, I would say it is so.

[TXGunNut]

I'm thinking I need a hard lube but would likely need another sizer, my Lyman has only seen SPG and I enjoy shooting BP so much I suspect that's all it will ever see. Thanks to Lee and Ranch Dog enclosing LLA with their push-thru sizers I have several years worth of lube and I don't find it messy unless I use too much. I've pushed rifle boolits well over 2400 fps with LLA with little or no leading but sometimes wonder if a hard lube would work better for the GG rifle boolits I'm toying with.

[Bullshop Junior]

It will mike. I'll give you a call some time to talk about it lol

[geargnasher]

Soft lubes do just fine as fast as you want to go. The trick is having the right soft lube. Usually that means that it will contain a good bit of metal soap.

Gear

[Sekatoa]

Metal soap? I'm not familiar with that term, what does it reference?

[geargnasher]

Metal salts, or stearates, like sodium stearate which comprises Ivory soap, or lithium stearate, used often to gel oils to make chassis grease.

Gear

[Sekatoa]

Ok thanks. I new of the started in soap, didn't associate them with metal salts or "soaps". BTW, I got my sodium sterate from Amazon, an 8oz bottle of "water glass", from a scientific supply co. It's great, pure, and can be dried, then broken into crystals to cook into your lube blend. I learned the hard way not to add it as a liquid.

[btroj]

Ummm, you have sodium silicate. That is vastly different from sodium stearate.

[C. Latch]

I mixed roughly equal parts lithium grease (blue, from the automotive section at walmart, sold as marine grease) and beeswax and have been satisfied with it at pistol speeds up to 1250' (fastest I've went thus far) and ~1800ish in my micro-grooved 30-30.

No leading thus far. I chose this because I had beeswax, could get grease at WM, and it was easy to mix (warm it up, stir, cool, repeat), and I wanted something that would work for hand-lubing. It works fine for hand-lubing; I'll start with a glob of it that's a bit cool and by the time I handle it a bit it's softened up enough to be easy to work with, and the excess cleans off easily.

[geargnasher]

Ummm, you have sodium silicate. That is vastly different from sodium stearate.

I couldn't make out for sure if he got sodium stearate from Amazon and water glass from another place, or what. I give up.

Gear

[Sekatoa]

Sorry about. I'm still pretty new at the homemade lube addiction.

Yep, you are right btroj. That'll teach me to post before I verify what I have. I had actually purchased the product from Amazon as water glass for another purpose. When I read the ingredients for Felix lube, I remembered it wrong I guess, and thought what I had was correct. I'm usually very careful about verifying ingredients, but this once slipped by. Explains why the first batch didn't turn out well.

However, the second batch seemed good, using the sodium silicate in place of the sodium stearate accidently. I have not shot any loads with it yet, but who knows, maybe I'm onto something. Lube masters, correct me if I'm wrong (and you will), but I believe the stearate is a binder for the other ingredients. The sodium silicate, when dried, broken into chips, and stirred in slowly over low heat until completely dissolved, seems to have achieved this in the end product. We will see at the range when I can get there next.

Well, I don't want to derail this thread any further. But here is what I got from Amazon just for clarification....

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/04/16/nehyve6y.jpg

Dave

[runfiverun]

sodium stearate is kind of a binder it is also a lube but more importantly it's a gellant for the mineral oil.
the mineral oil is used to polymerize the castor oil. [it takes the heat well]
the castor oil is the real lubricant.
however the stearate holds the castor oil in place in the wax being used, the same as it works to hold oils into a grease.
the high heat used to make felix and several other lubes is to alloy the stearate to break down and re-form with the oil on a molecular level.

[Petrol & Powder]

I'm an old reloader and a newer' caster. I'll add my endorsement to White Label Lube. Their products (50-50 and BAC) worked far better for me than the mass market commercial stuff.

[AndyC]

White Label Lube for me, too - nice folks, great products, great prices.

I first used their BAC lube in my .45acp, but while it worked great and needed no heat, it was too tacky/sticky for my tastes. Moved over to their Carnauba Red which is a bit harder (and therefore needs a little heat) - so I added an aluminum plate under my lube-sizer, sat a cheap steam-iron on the plate at low temp - voila! Instant heaven :)

[Elkins45]

Heh.

If I had to lubesize every single boolit I cast for handguns, it's virtually guaranteed that I would stop casting. I've gone back and forth over the years from lubeiszing to tumble-lubing back to lubesizing and for the past few years, if it gets fired in a handgun (exception being 9mm, which I just about don't cast for anymore anyhow), it gets tumble-lubed with 45/45/10.

All .358 boolits and all .452 boolits get tumble-lubed. Using a stick lube on .45ACP is simply a waste of lube and the time it takes to apply it. I've been pushing some seriously hot .357 Magnums for several years now with 45/45/10--no leading, consistent and steady accuracy. When I'm feeling particularly masochistic, I cast up some .356 102RN boolits for the .380ACP. Lubesizing them would drive me crazy.

Rifle boolits? They all go through the lubesizer.

I do not pain-lube. I'd rather come out of retirement and go to work for the BLM being a taser dummy than go through the madness of pain-lubing, which for the new members is what I refer pan-lubing as.

For Cowboy Action shooting loads and ammo? Tumble-lube it, load it, shoot it and be done with it. Concentrate your lube and sizing efforts on your long gun stuff.

:coffee:

My sentiments exactly. The only thing I would add is that I run full-bore 44 magnum boolets that have lube groves through the sizer, since they might be asked to travel down the bore of a 20" rifle someday instead of a 5" pistol. Still, my most used 44 boolet is the Lee 240 tumble lube tossed in LLA or Recluse lube.


I mixed roughly equal parts lithium grease (blue, from the automotive section at walmart, sold as marine grease) and beeswax and have been satisfied with it at pistol speeds up to 1250' (fastest I've went thus far) and ~1800ish in my micro-grooved 30-30.

No leading thus far. I chose this because I had beeswax, could get grease at WM, and it was easy to mix (warm it up, stir, cool, repeat), and I wanted something that would work for hand-lubing. It works fine for hand-lubing; I'll start with a glob of it that's a bit cool and by the time I handle it a bit it's softened up enough to be easy to work with, and the excess cleans off easily.

You made lithibee, a well-respected and versatile lube that will handle just about any pistol use and most normal rifle shooting as well. You could do much worse.

[AggiePharmD]

Shew. Now my head is spinning and it ain't from the communal wine at the church house. I'm gonna have to read most of this again but I think I get the idea of it all. Mostly I've got way more to learn and too much to read. Keep the info coming and thanks again.