3 Square Deal B’s or 1 XL650

[warf73]

The wife and I are starting to shoot a lot more now and reloading is starting to become a chore on the RL 550B.
I reload in batches of 1k for a 380acp, 357mag and 40 S&W. Been giving a serious thought on reloading in batches of 2k to even 5k to make it easier on me kind of.
And this is where the SDB or 650 comes into play.
It takes me 4 hours to load 1k of pretty much anything that is mentioned above. I don’t get into a huge hurry and do take a break to get more ice tea. Please understand that this time includes reloading my 4 small primer tubes, refilling powder (if needed) anything else that comes up. So every other month or so I’m spending just over 13 hours at the reloading bench.

If I could cut that down 2 hours per caliber that would be great, which one would get me to the 2 hour mark at a leisurely pace?

The XL 650
1 XL 650
3 Powder cops
2 Tool heads with powder dispenser
2 conversion kits
2 die sets
1 case feeder
1 case feeder plate

$1536 to the house.

Square Deal B
3 SDB

$1165 to the house.

Since I only reload about 2k 45acp a year I’ll run those across the 550 and leave it set up with large primers. The extra time saved will let me pour boolits for each caliber and maybe shift to the 2~5k batch loads.

What do you all think?

Thanks Warf

[Janoosh]

Warf...I've got two SDB's, and they're dedicated machines. One 357/158 jaxketed, one 357/180 lead. A great machine for pistol.ammo once dialed in and great tech support...every time you pull the handle, a finished cartridge. Never had a 650...so I won't comment on it. Can't go wrong with the SDB....

[Moonman]

Brian Enos has a forum and is a Dillon dealer.
He has a "Which Dillon" for me written assessment.

Up to 2000 rounds a month, a Square Deal "B" (Handgun ammo only)
or a RL550,

For 2000-3500 a month in a single caliber he recommends a Dillon 650.
(will load 800/1000 hour)

The Dillon 1050 is recommended for people who shoot 4000+ a month
in a single caliber.

Many people have a Square Deal dedicated to 45ACP and 9 MM.

Mike Venterino, a gun writer and collector, has "DEDICATED" Square Deals
in 45 and 9 MM set up just to FEED HIS WWII SUB MACHINE GUNS.

[AbitNutz]

I have found that changing calibers, while easy in principle, turns out to be a huge PIA. I have moved from one multi-purpose machine to more of a dedicated machine setup. I then use single stage/turret for one off loading jobs.

If your habit is to load in long term dedicated sessions, then you may well be able to deal with a single multi-purpose XL-650. However, it won't take too many unplanned swap overs to make you wish you had another machine. At least that is what happened to me. I invested in a bunch of extra equipment to make change overs easier and still hated to do it. It seemed that no matter what I needed to load, the machine was in the wrong caliber.

This may all be just because I suffer from ADD in some things and OCD in others. If you're really organized and a time management guru, then I can see as single machine meeting your needs. If not, you're in for a frustrating experience.

[Reddirt204]

Ok my take on this 'problem' :)

I run a Hornady LnL, I load rifle and pistol, 9mm, 357mag, 22 hornet,204,223,243 & 308 ignoring the rifles for the moment, I deprim and s/s clean my brass, then I hand prime the pistol cases in front of the tv with the family, usually about 2-5k over a few nights, this allows me to cull any loose primer pockets, then I get around to loading and I have a heap ready to go. With the quick change bushing setup I can change cals very quickly, usually under 3 mins with powder weight checks, if I had a second powder thrower it would be even simpler.

I'm not knocking Dillon or pushing Hornady, just giving an other possible option, if you also run case and bullet feeders you would be seriously cranking out a lot of rounds. Also your situation may allow you room for 3+ presses, sadly I don't, so things like that will affect your desition
Good luck and keep us informed what you decide

Cheers

Reddirt204

[Dan Cash]

I run 2 550s, one for small primer and one for large. I also have a dozen or so tool heads set up for calibers loaded in volume though some are used but onece a year. Need I say, adjusting dies and powder measures sucks. Though I have never used a 650, it would likely get to be an irritation to make significant caliber changes, e.g. those requiring change from large to small primer. Since you already have a 550 for future rifle loading, were it me, I would be inclined to get the SDB presses were I in your situation.

[jmorris]

If I could cut that down 2 hours per caliber that would be great, which one would get me to the 2 hour mark at a leisurely pace?

I have two SD's myself but try my best not to load thousands at a time with them.

With bullet and case feeders you will be a lot closer to 1 hr/1000 with a 650.

Here is a video of one of mine. Even with the time turning on the feeders and checking the PC die and primer alarms, 20 rounds in a minute and a half would be 75 min/1000.

Click photo to play.
http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o213/jmorrismetal/reloading/bullet%20feeder/th_VID_20130305_152550_802_zps7819706b.jpg (http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o213/jmorrismetal/reloading/bullet%20feeder/VID_20130305_152550_802_zps7819706b.mp4)

[claudesapp]

I have a 650 and a Lee 4 hole turret press. I thought I'd sell my Lee once I bought my 650, but I've actually picked up more Lee turrets since I bought the Dillon. I don't think changing calibers on the Dillon is that hard, takes maybe ten minutes, but changing loads on the Dillon is my gripe, much easier on the Lee to quickly switch from 230FMJ to 200SWC in 45ACP for example. I'm good for about 200 rounds per hour on the Lee, but I have to admit it is really nice cranking out the same amount in minutes on the Dillon. I see room for both on my bench, but my Dillon has really become my dedicated 9mm press.

[David2011]

Warf,

I have a SDB, 550 and 650. The SDB is ok and my production with it is about 400 rounds/hour. It's a solid, reliable press. The 550 is very versatile and loads many rifle and pistol calibers. It's pretty easy and fast to change calibers and primer size. The 650 takes a little longer to change calibers and primers because of the additional casefeeder parts. That can be sped up by having complete large and small primer setups. Just my opinion, but the 650 has the best primer handling system of the 3 smaller Dillons. The 650 is far smoother and faster than a SDB. Without pushing it hard I can load 300 rounds of .40 S&W in 20 minutes. That's only an average of 1 cycle every 4 seconds so not breakneck speed. I once loaded 50 rounds in two minutes just to see how many I could do in that much time. That WAS at breakneck speed and a place waiting for an accident- most likely a finger injury at the bullet seating position. It was not sustainable for myslef for much longer than 2 minutes.

I had the 550 when I started shooting IPSC with a .40 and quickly decided to get a 650 for the high volume. I've never regretted it.

One other thought and the most economical: Have you considered adding a casefeeder to the 550? The manual advance on the 550 is not slowing you down nearly as much as having to put the case in place manually.

David

[DaveInFloweryBranchGA]

Warf,

What jumps out at me from your original post is two things:

1. You're reloading 4000 a month just in your pistol calibers.
2. You're reloading time is increased per caliber or reduced in efficiency by the press you're using. By this I mean you are manually advancing and likely don't have a case feeder or a bullet feeder on your press, both of which increase efficiency.

So there's a couple things you can do to reduce your time reloading:
1. Increase reloaded volume per reloading session.
2. Increase efficiency of reloading to dramatically increase output in the same or preferably much less time spent.

To do those two things I just mentioned, you would want:
1. A press that's significantly increase your reloaded rounds per hour while decreasing your work level.
2. A press that takes full advantage of the increased efficiency of case feeders and bullet feeders.

Of the two presses you mentioned, the Dillon 650 will do that the best. You can buy three SBD's and cut down on "setup" time, but again, is your setup time efficient? For instance, do each of your tools heads have powder measures or do you have powder measures enough for a measure setup for each caliber to minimize changeover time?

After looking at your cartridge volume, I think you're going to need to bite the bullet and get a press with both a case feeder and a bullet feeder, then have setups in each caliber that have been maximized for efficient changeover. Once you've got that press, run large volumes of 4000 per run or more if you have the cases. And finally, get those who are shooting those cartridges to help with feeding the press while you're running the cases. Makes the operation go quicker, is more fun with company and it's good family time.

My recommendation is bite the bullet and get the 650.

[Walter Laich]

FWIW I have 4 SDBs (walked into 3 of them that were almost free-really). Each is dedicated to a specific caliber and I love the fact that I can walk out, load powder and primers and be on my way.
Not shooting near the amount you do--about 500-1000 rounds per month is all.

[Doc_Stihl]

RCBS Pro 2000. Easiest caliber change there is in my opinion.
Best priming system available in my opinion.
Great powder system.

[HATCH]

Dillon 650.
On a saturday (just one) you should be able to load 1K of each caliber you have listed.
Keep in mind that 45acp is large pistol and will require a primer changeout but its not unheard of to do 800 rds a hr so basically two hrs to load 1K.

[Moonman]

Dave in Ga,

Look at the original Post.

He can load 1000 rounds in 4 hours on his Dillon 550 not rushing,

and he loads for 13 hours, EVERY OTHER MONTH.

Does that figure out to 3250 rounds for 2 months worth of loading?

1650 rounds a month split between 3 DEDICATED Square Deals

along with his Dillon 550 would handle his issues just fine, I do believe. JMHO.

[DaveInFloweryBranchGA]

Dave in Ga,

Look at the original Post. I did, did you? He stated he was loading a thousand of each of four different calibers. That's a thousand times 4 calibers or four thousand rounds. If you look, I think you'll find I'm not the only poster who read things this way.

He can load 1000 rounds in 4 hours on his Dillon 550 not rushing,

and he loads for 13 hours, EVERY OTHER MONTH. He actually said: "So every other month or so I’m spending just over 13 hours at the reloading bench." Perhaps your interpretation of those words is different than mine, but my interpretation is 13 hours spread over two months and he's interested in reducing that. I'm pretty confident in my interpretation, being that I've always gotten straight A's in English from elementary school through college. If I've misinterpreted or misunderstood him, it's his prerogative to correct the misunderstanding and clear things up, not yours.

He also said: "Been giving a serious thought on reloading in batches of 2k to even 5k to make it easier on me kind of." Putting these two statements together indicates to me he'd like to reduce his reloading time and increase his volume per session and reload less often so he can do other things.

I don't know how often you've reloaded really large volumes of ammo for high cartridge use activities, but I have. Sitting at the bench and cranking out rounds on a progressive, any progressive gets old. If one can reduce the size, number of sessions and increase the number of rounds per session significantly, one are better off.

Does that figure out to 3250 rounds for 2 months worth of loading? If that's your interpretation, that's your interpretation, but I feel no real need to address the question. Particularly since I'm posting in this thread to help him with his stated goals.

1650 rounds a month split between 3 DEDICATED Square Deals

along with his Dillon 550 would handle his issues just fine, I do believe. JMHO. Would it handle the current load, even the 1K per caliber he mentioned? Perhaps, but what it would NOT DO is significantly increase the number of loaded cartridges per session nor allow him to increase his total load per session while decreasing his reloading time invested by any significant amount. The only significant benefit it gives him is a press already setup for each caliber, which is convenient, but the savings is only the caliber changeover time and not a huge increase in volume per hour/session. And it would definitely limit increasing the total number of cartridges loaded without increasing the amount of reloading time. Adding a case feeder to the 550 only gives an increase of 25% according to Brian Enos, so a gain from 250 cartridges per hour to 312. The SBD's don't have the case feeder option and neither has a bullet feeder option, due mostly to limited stations on the press.

The 650, on the other hand, really comes into it's own when it's volume reloaded. A fully decked out 650, with all the feeders and alarms, is pretty darn bullet proof. Being that I'm not a Dillon fan, that's saying something. Both the Hornady LnL and the 650 with all the bells and whistles, are well past 650 cartridges per hour and approaching a 1000. So assuming some caution and feeding the beast, one has significantly reduced their reloading time for 4000 cartridges from the four hours mentioned by the original poster to easily less than two hours. That is a significant time savings.

With fully loaded tool heads that include powder measures already setup and tuned, change over time is reduced. The powder measures don't have to be Dillon. Smaller volume cartridges like the .380 can get by with Lee measures, for instance. That said, in volumes he's doing and if he's serious about increasing is volume per session/hour and increasing total volume, changeover time becomes insignificant, just like it does in any manufacturing process. It's just not enough of the total time invested at 5-10 minutes per caliber.

If the OP stated he wants to decrease his reloading time and is giving serious consideration to increasing his cartridge output. Since he can't operate four progressives all at one time, he can only get the volume increase/time reduction by optimizing his progressive reloading. To do that, the absolute best way is to go to a serious progressive. His time is becoming more valuable to him and this reduces the relative value of the cost savings.

About cost considerations: Purchasing a 650 allows the original poster to reload rifle cartridges on the 650, so he really would no longer need his 550 and could sell it and the various caliber conversions to offset the cost of the 650. If he breaks up the 550's parts/pieces down as small as possible, he can get pretty close to full retail for his 550. This pretty much offsets most of the potential savings purchasing the SBD's and he won't be limited in what dies to buy like he would with the SBD's.

So I'll stick with my original opinion: For the goals the OP has stated, the volumes he's currently loading and where he is giving serious consideration to go, the 650 is the better choice, because when it comes to volumes that high, changeover time (5-10 minutes) is insignificant." When selling the 550 to offset costs, especially as I described, the cost difference is reduced to a point as to be insignificant.

Sometimes, time saved buying a tool is more important than what the tool costs. Based on the OP's statements, this situation is one of those times.

[jmorris]

Just my opinion, but the 650 has the best primer handling system of the 3 smaller Dillons.

I think it is the best one they have. Was really dissipointed when My first 1050 arrived and I found out that it uses the same plastic primer oraface that the SD and 550 use.

[David2011]

At this point in my life I don't know why I would give up my 550 just because I have a 650. It would cost a lot to replace all of the 550 caliber conversions I have with 650 conversions. I only use the 650 for high volume calibers like .40 and .223. Runs of fewer than 400-500 go to the 550 unless the 650 is already set up for that caliber. Runs of fewer than 100 are done on single stage presses.

David

[warf73]

With bullet and case feeders you will be a lot closer to 1 hr/1000 with a 650.
How much does a bullet feed cost and how well does it work with cast boolits?
The 380 and 357 both use boolits sized to .358ish and the 40 uses a .402ish boolit so just 2 feeding plates for the bullets?


To clear up a few things:
380acp
357mag
40S&W
Are batch loaded at this time in batches of 1k, then I change over to the next caliber. Since these are all small pistol primers I wouldn't have to worry about changing over from small primer to large on the 650. Also from my reading on Dillions site the case feeder plate is the same for the 357 and 40 so the plate would only need changed for the 380.
As for the large primers I only load 2k(aprox) 45acp a year so that one will not be ran on the 650 or SDB.

I like the idea of setting down for 4 hours and kick out 3k rounds or so. Something that is more appealing is I could spend a Saturday at the bench and kick out a years supply of ammo for which ever caliber is tooled up. Down side is I'll need to pour alot more boolits to make a LONG Saturday happen...... good problem to have.

Thanks everyone for your replys and if you have any more keep them coming great conversation going here.


Warf

[DaveInFloweryBranchGA]

How much does a bullet feed cost and how well does it work with cast boolits? I'm using modified Hornady bullet feeder die and it works pretty well, but I don't have a collator. If I were doing the same purchase today, I would go with: mrbulletfeeder.com and I recommend you go there and check out their stuff.


The 380 and 357 both use boolits sized to .358ish and the 40 uses a .402ish boolit so just 2 feeding plates for the bullets?

To clear up a few things:
380acp
357mag
40S&W
Are batch loaded at this time in batches of 1k, then I change over to the next caliber. 1K is a pretty large batch, but you mentioned being serious about loading larger batches. If I were you, I'd get the faster setup and do so, to reduce the time you're timed up reloading.

Since these are all small pistol primers I wouldn't have to worry about changing over from small primer to large on the 650. Also from my reading on Dillions site the case feeder plate is the same for the 357 and 40 so the plate would only need changed for the 380. Yep

As for the large primers I only load 2k(aprox) 45acp a year so that one will not be ran on the 650 or SDB. So you're closer to 3K per month then?

I like the idea of setting down for 4 hours and kick out 3k rounds or so. Something that is more appealing is I could spend a Saturday at the bench and kick out a years supply of ammo for which ever caliber is tooled up. Down side is I'll need to pour alot more boolits to make a LONG Saturday happen...... good problem to have. Good problems are a whole lot more fun than being ground down with the drudgery of reloading the same thing constantly.

Thanks everyone for your replys and if you have any more keep them coming great conversation going here.


Warf

Something I didn't share before I'll share now. I don't reload or shoot nearly as much as I did a few years back. But I do still shoot. But I've reloaded some cartridges and refined them to the point the entire operation is the same every time. Included in that batch are .380ACP and .45ACP. I've reduced some calibers of rifles and pistols to reduce the amount of time I invest in a ton of calibers. Instead, I work on improving cartridges to a point they shoot real well in a particular gun or guns, then mass produce them to have on hand when I do shoot.

I also found a few years ago when I was shooting a lot I was tied up reloading all the time, so I upgraded to an auto advance progressive to reduce my time reloading and do other things. It worked.

Later on, I sold my auto advance progressive and was briefly down to a Lee Classic Cast single stage. It is a fine press, but again, even with reduced cartridges and shooting, I was back to a bunch of time reloading and couldn't do other things, like restore an aluminum bass boat I had. So I ended up buying another auto advance progressive, different from the one I'd had before. I got an RCBS.

The RCBS was a very different press and the particular one I got came from a batch with a machining problem of the sub plate. So I had the joys of not only having to learn it, but to also get the problem corrected with RCBS, who gave me incredible service. But the RCBS is not designed to accept a case feeder. So I'm stuck with just bullet feeders. Other than that, this is the best press I've ever reloaded on, fast, smooth, efficient and just plain easy to load on.

When I do reload now, I either reload single stage (load development) or progressively (stocking up). When I load progressively, I set the press up and reload until I run out of brass in that caliber if the number of firearms I have in that caliber allows it. I reload during the commercials on tv, no other time. Doesn't interrupt the wife and my time together much, as during those same commercials she is doing other things as well. And doesn't interfere with my kids/grandchildren/fishing/boating time.

The progressive, which was expensive and hit my wallet pretty good, is paying me back in time availability. And if I want to shoot .380ACP, .45ACP, 30.06, .223 and .30 carbine, there's a nice stock of loaded cartridges ready to go, including cast, but jacketed. I don't feel the pinch too much of shortages of primers, powder and such, because I've stocked up.

Wanna go shooting? Let's go, my ammunition is in those GI surplus ammo cans, ready to go.

[jmorris]

How much does a bullet feed cost and how well does it work with cast boolits?

I use the GSI feeders for pistol bullets on 650's and 1050's because they are the only feeder that let you keep the powder check die and feed/seat in one station and crimp in another.

The 650 one's I bought were $250 without collators (they didn't offer them when they first came out.

I build the collators out of 6"PVC pipe and 1/2" plastic.

Here is a video of one of them feeding cast bullets into the auto bullet sizer I built.
http://i664.photobucket.com/albums/vv5/qvideo/th_VID_20131008_114903_441_zpsdb21a12f.jpg (http://i664.photobucket.com/albums/vv5/qvideo/VID_20131008_114903_441_zpsdb21a12f.mp4)

[jmorris]

A bullet feeder alone is nothing like one with a collator as you still must handle each bullet by hand without one.

The collators I use now for bullets are not terribly difficult to make.

I didn't have a CNC mill back when I made them so I built some simple jigs to get the correct spacing on the wheels.

http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o213/jmorrismetal/reloading/bullet%20feeder/DSC01472.jpg

The wheel is driven by a roll pin in the motor shaft.

http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o213/jmorrismetal/reloading/bullet%20feeder/DSC01537.jpg

The key to correct orentation is the flipper, you want already base down bullets to continue to the drop tube.
http://i664.photobucket.com/albums/vv5/qvideo/IMAG0376-1.jpg

If the nose of the bullet is down, you want it to catch in the slot.
http://i664.photobucket.com/albums/vv5/qvideo/IMAG0372-1.jpg

So it will be layed flat with the tip towards the outside.
http://i664.photobucket.com/albums/vv5/qvideo/IMAG0374.jpg

The ride back up the ramp, setting them base down.
http://i664.photobucket.com/albums/vv5/qvideo/IMAG0376.jpg

[kweidner]

I just finished loading 8000 this week on 2 550s no case feeder. Do enough of it you get consistent solid and fast. I am elevated so I can see every case before the boolit is seated and load on average 450 an hour for 9,38,40 and 380. 45 goes a tad slower beacuse of the pressure involved. Matter of fact I have loaded 30000 since January on those 550s. I do have powder droppers on all tool heads and swap out takes less than 5 minutes. I could load faster but this speed is comfortable.

[W.R.Buchanan]

I have 2 SDB's one set up for .40 S&W and the other set up for .45 ACP. Obviously either one could be changed to load a similar cartridge without having to change the priming system on that machine. I also have a 550B which came with 9mm, 38/357,45ACP and .308 tool heads set up for the previous owners loads. I don't do any of those cartridges on that machine, and so far I have only loaded .223's on it since I have the other machines already set up and running. No reason to change those.

For my .308's I use IMR4895 so that requires throwing the charges with an electronic PM, and so I assemble those on the front three stations of my C&H 444. 50 rounds in .5 hours.

I use my Rockchucker to break down bottle neck cases which then get tumbled and are ready to load when done.

I also have a PW MetalMatic II which can be set up for various things, but it doesn't get used much since I have the other simpler machines.

For shotguns I load for 12 ga and .410's .410's on a Pacific DL266 single stage, and 12's on a DL266, DL366 or Spolar. I can do 100 per hour on the 266's, 500 per hour on the DL366, and 900 per hour on the Spolar. So far I don't shoot enough to even justify having the Spolar but after I retire that may change.

The point of all this is you need to tailor your machinery to the amounts of different cartridges you need to load. No one machine will do it all with the highest efficiency. That's whey there is so many different types of machines out there.

To tell the truth I could get by nicely with just the Rockchucker, the and the 550B, and the two DL266's. I could load anything I ever wanted to with those machines, and probably in quantities large enough to suit my shooting needs. But it would be more work!

I tend to buy a machine based on what type of use I have for it. The Dillon 550B will load all of my brass cased ammo, but you have to change calibers and whereas this may not take that long, it still has to be done, and if you don't have a dedicated toolhead for each caliber then you run into having to changing dies, priming systems and powder measures etc., which puts right in the same category as my C&H.

I will not do it to load 100 .308's. or 50 .45-70's or cast boolit loads for my .30-06, .30-30 or .44's. It's pointless when I can be up and running in five minutes with a manual machine.

There is another factor here which though it may be considered intangible by some, actually means something to me or to any one who has pulled on handles for a living .

It is called "Tactile Gratification."

It is simply,,, how much gratification you get from the "feel" of the machine. If you are operating that machine for long periods of time this actually becomes a big deal.

Bridgeport Mills,,, "Feel better" than Chinese clones. Simple fact,,, and anyone who has operated both will readily agree with me.

As a result loading machines which you intend on spending hours in front of should also feel good to use. Some are better than others and that's a fact All machines need to have a buttery smooth feel to them when you pull the handle. All of the Dillon machines have a good feel to them. I especially like my C&H and when the lever cams over at the bottom of the stroke and hits the rubber bumper I installed on it,,, it feels really satisfying, nice and smooth with no metal to metal grinding going on.

In a perfect world we each would have the right machine all set up for every caliber we load and all you'd have to do is go to the loading room and start pulling handles on which ever machine you needed ammo from.

In the real world there are compromises that must be made and sometimes despite your best effort to learn everything there is to know about something before hand, we still end up buying some things that just don't cut it.

That's what EBay is for!

Randy

[HATCH]

I owned 3 SDB and a 550b at the same time. The plan was to dedicated the SDB to do 38sp, 41 mag , & 45 acp. The 550 would do the remaining 13 calibers. I got a deal on a 650 and sold the 3 SDB. The 650 is a commercial quality loader when you use the case feeder (with collator). In fact my brother ray lives two hrs from me. It takes less time to drive round trip and load on the 650 then stay at home and load on the 550.

[bruce381]

keep the 550 for low volume stuff (45 acp)and get a case feed 650 for your high volume small primer stuff(9,380,40 etc).

[jmorris]

The point of all this is you need to tailor your machinery to the amounts of different cartridges you need to load. No one machine will do it all with the highest efficiency. That's whey there is so many different types of machines out there.

Worth reading that again. Each have pros and cons.

[btroj]

Color me cheap but no way would I spend over a thousand dollars because I was spending 13 hours every other month loading ammo. Heck, I wouldn't do it and I spend that much a month at times.

[DaveInFloweryBranchGA]

Color me cheap but no way would I spend over a thousand dollars because I was spending 13 hours every other month loading ammo. Heck, I wouldn't do it and I spend that much a month at times.

You would if you had something else you had to or wanted to do in most of those hours. Sometimes time is more valuable than money. For example: Time spent with your children while they're growing up. You never realize how valuable that is until they're five states away and you don't get to see them any more. If I could trade a thousand bucks for time spent with my children, I'd be all over it.

[warf73]

Color me cheap but no way would I spend over a thousand dollars because I was spending 13 hours every other month loading ammo. Heck, I wouldn't do it and I spend that much a month at times.

Funny you say that but, I made another purchase last month that increased my shooting and will take up some weekends traveling to shoots. Spent thousand dollars for all the goodies so I can do this.

I'm just lucky this gun collecting, shooting, casting, reloading hobby is so cheap................ LOL

[jmorris]

Color me cheap but no way would I spend over a thousand dollars because I was spending 13 hours every other month loading ammo. Heck, I wouldn't do it and I spend that much a month at times.

It's just different strokes for different folks. I know people that spend many thousands on things that, not only to they not save time, they take up your time. A boat is the first thing that I thought of, still trying to keep race cars out of my head.
Most new boats that you don't blow up with air cost more than I have in reloading equipment and I have a lot.

[DaveInFloweryBranchGA]

It's just different strokes for different folks. I know people that spend many thousands on things that, not only to they not save time, they take up your time. A boat is the first thing that I thought of. Most new boats that you don't blow up with air cost more than I have in reloading equipment and I have a lot.

LOL, yes, yes, those boats do (B.O.A.T. - bring out another thousand) cost money and time. I'm into my 1986 aluminum bass boat restoration for about $3500.00 and it sits in the yard more than I would like. But when I get the chance to take a son or son in law or young grandson out fishing on Lake Lanier here in Atlanta, I sure do enjoy it.

[Moonman]

Boats, Airplanes, Automobiles, Cruses, Swimming Pools, Golf Vacations, Harley Davidson's.

My thoughts, Spend !/2 your money on GOOD BOOZE and WILD WOMEN, then just go

and WASTE THE OTHER 1/2.

[jmorris]

And that's the point, enjoy it.

It would make most men think a $1000 investment in reloading equipment that would last a life time is quite reasonable if they knew what the wife spends total on things like hair, nails, purses and shoes, continuously.

The $1000 investment for loading every other month would be a $167 investment each session the first year. By the end of the 2nd year it would be $83 a session.

After 10 years of loading on the $1000 machine saving you from the 13 hours of loading your at $8.33.

Funny the first SD my brother and I went in on together 29 years ago because it was so expensive ($130) would be like spending $4.48 a year for it. Not to mention it is worth more now than when we bought it.

[btroj]

My 550B does just fine. I don't need more speed than that. I reload for fun, I don't view it as work.

Oh, I also don't own a boat, ATF, jet ski, motorcycle, or any of that. I do have a nice retirement account however

[HATCH]

I could buy all the ammo I personally need for my lifetime for what I paid for equipment, powder, brass, lead, and primers. Its more then just money. Every piece of equipment I buy only loses at most 25% of its value over the period which I own it and that's if I bought it new. The biggest thing for me is that the actions I took to get all this gear and reloading supplies ensures that my children will enjoy shooting long after I am gone regardless of what some moron in the white house says.

[Petrol & Powder]

I've owned a 550 for many years and I'm happy with that machine. I've used both the 650 and the SDB and I have a favorable opinion of those as well. There's been lots of input on this thread with much thought. In the pure sense of economy and future expansion, I'd have to vote for the 650 over multiple SDB's However, the need to switch between large/small primers changes that just a bit. You have to weigh the cost in money and bench space with the convenience of a dedicated machine.
My 550 is set up for small primers and I frequently switch between 9mm/38 spl. with zero issues and minimal thought. I will reluctantly set it up for large primers when I load 45ACP and when I do, I load huge batches and convert it back to small primers when finished. I've often considered a second machine dedicated to large primers but the idea of multiple SDB's seemed convenient but not practical.

[Moonman]

Choices, Choices, Choices.

Isn't a complete EXTRA primer assembly for a 650 about $90, a 2 screw swap-out Morris should know.

Also, you could DUMP all your large primer 45's and stock up on small primer 45's only.

Looks like more and more manufactures are switching into small primers. UGH! More problems.

[Echd]

I probably don't shoot enough to justify my 650 but I love it. I'd imagine if you split your shooting between 3 calibers fairly evenly and can just supplement the rest on your 550 you'd be out ahead going with 3 SDBs. I only do 45 on my 650 but load everything else on my 550.

That said, if you've never loaded with a case feeder, it's an INCREDIBLE speed increase. A bullet feeder too.

[W.R.Buchanan]

OK guys my other vice is Jeeps. (Just Empty Every Pocket) For what I've got in my project, I could have bought a new one and modified it any way I wanted. But you can't buy one like mine unless you buy mine. Going to be very few takers at $125K when done. (My time is worth $75/hour.)

But since I designed and built it from scratch, I got a tremendous amount of "Tactile Gratification" from building it. Also the satisfaction of having something unique is worth something to many.

I will have to drive it for many years to recoup my investment thru use, and I have had to swallow the fact that may never happen. In effect, using Morris' method of amortization, I will have simply paid more per hour of use.

I can live with that, simply because I value my "Tactile Gratification" highly. (I've been known to take longer completing a job because it felt so good drilling the holes on my mill.)

Point here is that we all do this hobby because we are trying to do something different than what is readily available to the general public. All the reasons why are evident to most of us, and everyone's reasons are unique to them, but the one thing that is common to all is that it is FUN to do it,,, or else we wouldn't do it.

I mentioned above that lots of times there is trial and error involved when tooling up for anything. (I've built 5 different Jeeps) The good thing about Reloading Equipment is that it has good resale value,,, (unless you leave it uncovered in the wet garage for 20 years,) so you can always sell off what you don't like. In the case of lots of this stuff you can get what you paid for it back, and sometimes even more. That makes it a good investment as well.

What I would recommend to the OP is to buy some machines and see if they do what you want. If they don't then sell off some and buy other stuff until you get it right. Just buy popular machines so you can resell with little or no loss.

Only you will know when that is. All we can do is give you our considered opinions.

You'll notice there is no shortage of that here!:holysheep

Randy

[garym1a2]

After 10 years of loading on that 650 you could sell it for almost what a new one costs.
Time has a value, when you work 50+hours a week and have kids your off time has a lot of value.

And that's the point, enjoy it.

It would make most men think a $1000 investment in reloading equipment that would last a life time is quite reasonable if they knew what the wife spends total on things like hair, nails, purses and shoes, continuously.

The $1000 investment for loading every other month would be a $167 investment each session the first year. By the end of the 2nd year it would be $83 a session.

After 10 years of loading on the $1000 machine saving you from the 13 hours of loading your at $8.33.

Funny the first SD my brother and I went in on together 29 years ago because it was so expensive ($130) would be like spending $4.48 a year for it. Not to mention it is worth more now than when we bought it.

[btroj]

Why are those of you who need to save all this time casting bullets? It would be faster to buy them.

[freebullet]

Three words every progressive loader needs to become familiar with- lock out die.

Funny I load faster on my single stage than I do the progressive. I'm in no hurry. The progressive just saves my arm and shoulder from making so many up/down strokes, and my hand from the pains of extended hand prime sessions.

If I really wanted speed I would order a pallet of ammo, instead of casting, sizing, lubing, & loading. I do this to save money and for fun. I waited till I found a good price for a used progressive, because I can use it for years and get most of my money back when I'm done with it.

[dverna]

I had two SDB's and a 550 when I upgraded. Added a Star, 650 and 1050. Sold the SDB's

If I were you, I would buy the 650. Caliber change overs for the caliber you shoot most do not need a primer system change out. Add a tool head for each complete with powder measure. Add the case feeder and I do not think the bullet feeder will gain you much speed.

One other thing, buy more brass. Load a minimum of 2000 at a time. It makes for fewer change overs. For example, .40 brass is $40/1000 delivered. Not a huge investment to load 5000 up at a time. So you only need to swap out two calibers every load session instead of three calibers.

I do the same thing but use a 1050. My primary calibers are .38, 9mm and .40 - and I have about 5000 .38, 6000 9mm and 6000 .40 cases. I also have 20 primer tubes. I load 2000 at a time. You will miss not having a case feeder on the SDB and that is where the speed comes from.

Don Verna

[Lloyd Smale]

im proably going against the grain here. I used to have 5 square deals set up in specific calibers. I lost them in a fire and now use a 550 and 3 lnls. I miss the square deals. If i had only 3 calibers to load for id go the 3 square deal route. there good little presses and with some practice can be run as fast as a 650 with a case feeder. There short stroke makes them pretty quick. Nice thing to is if something breaks you have two more presses to use or to rob parts from until you get parts from dillon.

[6bg6ga]

im proably going against the grain here. I used to have 5 square deals set up in specific calibers. I lost them in a fire and now use a 550 and 3 lnls. I miss the square deals. If i had only 3 calibers to load for id go the 3 square deal route. there good little presses and with some practice can be run as fast as a 650 with a case feeder. There short stroke makes them pretty quick. Nice thing to is if something breaks you have two more presses to use or to rob parts from until you get parts from dillon.

There is always logic to your posts Lloyd. Makes sense as you put it. If one goes down simply remove parts from another or transfer to a different press. I should have kept the Square Deal I had in 45acp. I love the 650 but it takes time to setup correctly and get quality rounds out.

[jmorris]

Why are those of you who need to save all this time casting bullets? It would be faster to buy them.


My casting and sizing machines can make bullets faster than USPS can ship them, even if someone has what I want in stock.

[warf73]

Why are those of you who need to save all this time casting bullets? It would be faster to buy them.

As of right now casting is cheaper, and I get what I want/need for the 3 guns that are being fed. I will admit that I've been known to buy plated bullets when there on sale(that hasn't happened in while now)mostly for the 40.

[ROGER4314]

A second RL550B would also help and you could swap tool heads between them.

I had a Square Deal press and was impressed with the ingenuity that went into the design. My hands are the size of small hams and the SD simply did NOT work for me! I gave it a new home and the guy who bought it is having a ball! I had 4 changeover die sets which is one factor that I hated. They are expensive and not simple to swap. The swap is not hard.....just not simple. The $80 or so cost was appalling!

I could not recommend the SD if you have hands bigger than a child....snicker.

Flash

[Lloyd Smale]

Ive got real large hands and the only time i have problems is with cases like 32 sw and 380s but it doesnt matter what press im using. If it doesnt have a case and bullet feed i fumble with them. the square deal is no harder to feed small stuff then a 550.

[warf73]

Lloyd,
I'm running a batch of 40's(2k) right now and considering maybe ordering a SD for 357. Which will be the next caliber I need to get caught up on( changing boolit design for competion). Worst case I don't like it and sell it for 85% of new price(seems going rate on ebay atm).

[warf73]

Yesterday morning I sat down with my primer tubes ready to go, 1k bullets and few thousand brass and full powder hopper. I grunted out 520 40S&W's from 9am to 10am.
I've had this 550 for almost 15 years and never sat down and pounded out rounds like this. All I can say is its hard on the shoulders and lower back to just sit there and grab brass, bullets, pull, rotate, repeat and rinse at such a high rate. There would be no way I could produce that many rounds the 2nd hour.

Lloyd,
Can the SDB produce in the 500 range without killing you?

I think a case feeder would make life way easer, may it be on the 550 or a 650.

The XL650 is rated at 600~650 per hour is that with or without a case feeder?

[jmorris]

This is a video of one of mine that will do 1000 in 51 minutes and 20 seconds and you can load primer tubes as you go. Your arm never feels a thing.

http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o213/jmorrismetal/th_VIDEO0116-2.jpg (http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o213/jmorrismetal/VIDEO0116-2.mp4)

It is pretty easy to keep up with that pase with a bullet and case fed 650 manually, like the video I posted of one of mine in #7

[odis]

I own a square deal that I bought in the 80s, I've never used a 550 or a 650. I've also never timed myself and I've always wondered why Dillon rates the production greater with the 550 over the square deal. You put a case in station one and a bullet on top in station 3 pull the handle and a loaded round plops into the hopper. Same procceedure as the 550 except it auto advances. I can see the difference for the 650 with the case feeder but what am I missing with the 550?

[Bonz]

Good Advice - Always Plan For The Future - Buy The Press That Has The Most Stations

[warf73]

Jim,
You have one heck of a setup, how many automated machines do you run in your shop?

[gunoil]

Why are those of you who need to save all this time casting bullets? It would be faster to buy them.

Your jeep cost 100 grand+? Buy xtreme bullets and a 1050 w/cal change kit.

Either way you need a mrbulletfeeder, dillon comes with case feed/& collator if you tell em.

650 with MBF'er & case feed is super fast. Primer size change is a piece of cake.

[W.R.Buchanan]

Gunoil: I'm the one with the Jeep. It is built from scratch and I have 8 years in the project as of now. I still need the body installed but when it is done it will be worth about $125K, or at least that is what I'd have to have to part with it.

I doubt that anyone will give me what it is worth to me. However people pay that kind of money for custom built cars all the time.

I've got hundreds of hours in the build so far and probably another 200 til it is done. My time is worth money (so is everybody else's) My shop rate is $75/hour. That's how I arrived at the price.

You always have to look at the value of your time when doing anything, also you have to look at the fact that your time needs to yield a product that is as good or better than what you can buy. Obviously if you can't buy it then you have to absorb the costs of making it, or having it made.

I have friends who shoot a lot of trap. I asked them who they had loading their ammo and they told me Winchester or Remington. They are busy guys and buy all of their ammo from Walmart. They are also pretty well off to be able to shoot Thousands of rounds a month and not reload. Some of them shoot Winchester AA's which are about $8.00 per box, so you can get an idea of how much they spend. It is nothing for one of these guys to shoot 200 to 400 rounds in one day. They are dedicated!

I can load boxes of 12 ga on three different machines. On one machine it takes 15 minutes, on another it takes 4 minutes and the last machine takes about 1.5 minutes per box.

The material cost per box is the same regardless of which machine I use. It costs me about $3.50 per box in materials to load them. I can buy them for About $5.00 a box right now and usually about $42-45 per 10 box case just before dove season. that's $4.25-4.50/box

So my time is worth $.75-1.50 per box. With the single stage machine I am making $6.00/ hour. With the Spolar it's $54/ hour. On the Spolar it costs me $1.50 per box in labor, so for all intents and purposes it is a wash. I'd probably be better off buying from Walmart. Don't think for one second that the component costs aren't established so that it is only slightly tilted in favor to the reloader.

My shop rate is $75/hour minimum and floats depending on who I'm dealing with. Yes, Arsholes get charged more. So effectively I have to derive at least $21/ hour in Satisfaction or Tactile Gratification in order to justify doing this.

Or I can just say I like doing it. I also can load custom loads with these machines and I don't know if any of you have tried to find 7/8 oz. 12ga loads (International trap and skeet loads with very low recoil) but if you could find them they would be a helluva lot more than $5.00 per box, more like $8-9.00 per box. But they are virtually unobtainable since most all go to shooting teams. I can load those for even less (less shot)

Obviously we all can do better shooting cast boolits in our rifles and handguns simply because the cost of producing them is simply a matter of tooling and labor cost since in most cases the materials are very low cost.

I can load most centerfire cartridges for around .06-.08 per round. The main variable being the amount and initial cost of the powder being used.

So in the end every individual has to decide what he is going to get out of this hobby, and how much he is willing to pay to do it.

None of it is free, but it really is a good idea to figure out what it is costing you. All you have to do is sit down with your little calculator and run the numbers, that way you'll know.

Don't tell your wife.

Randy

[xray30]

It only takes 5-10 minutes max to change a caliber/primer size on a XL650. I much rather use a press that has regular dies, casefeeder and ability to add a bulletfeeder. Not to mention you have the ability to load rifle rounds on it.

[Patrick L]

I can't comment directly on the Dillon machines as I am an RCBS man (nothing against Dillon, I think I'd like to own one actually), but it seems to me that this industry makes an awful big deal about convenience, and how hard it is to screw a freakin' die in and out of a press or adjust a powder measure. I have two RCBS progressives. Honestly one does handle all large primer rounds and the other all small, but only because I have the two. I never would have purchased two for that purpose. I had an original Piggyback (upgraded) and when I decided to go progressive with rifle I bought an Ammomaster Auto due to the fact I liked the RCBS system, They used the same shell plates, etc. just the PB wouldn't handle .30-06 length rds. I load about 12 different calibers between the two.

Like I said I have no direct experience with the Dillon presses, but is it really that hard to change calibers? If I can't do it in under 10 minutes on the RCBS, I'm having a really bad day. And my machines don't have tool heads, I do it old school, screwing those dies in and out. That time includes setting the powder measure. Even if I had to switch the primer feed that might add a minute and a half to the total time.

Am I missing something, or are people really in that much of a hurry?

[6bg6ga]

I suggest that you check out the Dillon products.

Yes, to answer your question people are in a hurry. I know I am. I don't have hours to spend reloading so with the time I do have I make it count. I'm surprised that you posted considering that you own RCBS presses and the thread is about the Dillon SQ deal and the 650 press or to be general all Dillon reloading presses.

The Dillon 650's allow you to change calibers with ease provided you don't switch over from large to small primers or vice versa.

[6bg6ga]

103321

To be blunt I can change over faster with this than you can a RCBS.

[6bg6ga]

Getting back to the Square Deal and the 650

I've owned SD presses so I can see the + and - of owning and using one. I had one in 45acp and never did a change over to another caliber with it but it cannot be anything hard.

The 650 with the slide in plate with dies and powder measure already adjusted makes things a snap. All one needs to do is possibly change from the current caliber plate to another one....remove the center bolt and change it. Change the primer setup if needed....what? 3 minutes tops? Change out the case dropping hardware..... another minute or less.

I liked the SQ which was setup and ready to go but I also like the 650 which will change to what you need when you need it. Its cool to have a caliber ready to go sitting on the stand.

I think I need another 650 so I can have one setup for small primers and another one for large primers. But then again why not just another press and another and yet another?

Does it ever end?

[Moonman]

It's just amazing how many people will HI-JACK a thread just to ramble on about their
personal BS that has ZERO RELEVANCE to the OP's question.

****PLEASE****
Read the original post before expounding with your expertise about unrelated equipment or experiences.

The QUESTION concerned Dillon Presses, the Square Deal in multiple numbers
or a 650 machine.

He did not inquire about GREEN or RED machines.

[6bg6ga]

Lets look at the 650 for a second.

103326

103327

103328

Looking at the pictures you can see that you can easily install a bullet dropper to it.

You can count your completed rounds by installing a microswitch on a simple handmade aluminum plate and plug in the switch to your Star/Magma bullet sizer counter.

Also, you don't have to have their super Dillon mount. Mine is mounted to a piece of scrap T-6061

Plus things for the 650

1. ease of change over

2. easy to install a case and or bullet collator or bullet dropper

3. easy to count completed rounds without buying an expensive counter.

[6bg6ga]

Now,

Can you put a case collator on a SD? Yes, I've seen custom ones.

Can you put a bullet dropper on the SD? No

Can you count rounds? Sure, it can be done.

Look at cost.... two or three SD machines basic cost is more than on 650. Now, consider two additional caliber changes and where are you?

The XL 650
1 XL 650
3 Powder cops
2 Tool heads with powder dispenser
2 conversion kits
2 die sets
1 case feeder
1 case feeder plate

$1536 to the house.

Square Deal B
3 SDB

$1165 to the house.

Now, if you already have your dies then subtract the die cost. Home made collator? subtract the cost of the collator and additional collator plates.

[6bg6ga]

Looking at the cost again

$1536 for a 650 with toys

Remove the collator if you can build your own and take off $218 and the cost goes to $1318

Remove two die sets if you already have dies and the cost goes down to $1190.70

Remove another $38.00 for the aditional collator plate and your around $1152

In summary.... if you already own die sets and are capable of making your own collator the price of the 650 is darn close to three SD machines.

If your capable of making your own collator and have 2 die sets then the 650 is roughly $10 cheaper.

[Patrick L]

Excuse me Moonman, this was NOT a hijack, and I did read the OP. My comments were about the relevance of people's perception that time is so precious that the few minutes it takes to switch a press over is so critical to the time equation of their life. I only mentioned that I have RCBS presses to make it perfectly clear that I am not an authority on Dillon products. I feel my comments were valid to the discussion at hand. That said, people are free to do what they want, and if you want to enjoy the time savings that multiple machines give you, I'm all for it.

If you want to be snarky, there are other forums where members delight in bashing one another. This forum has always been a place for the free exchange of ideas by some of the most knowledgeable people this sport has, and I see no reason for you to step on me like that.

[6bg6ga]

My post #65 didnt mention the "powder Cop" price because I didn't find one and if your going to outfit a 650 your not going to have any free ports left when using the Dillon dies and a bullet dropper. I'll be blunt here....if your reloading you need to keep your head in the game and one should be able to run the machine and make sure that all stations are functioning correctly.


Patrick L,

I would love to hear your comments on the Dillon product. Your post sounded more to me like your love lies with the RCBS reloading equipment. I too am a fan of the RCBS product as I love their dies. I still maintain 6 or 7 calibers for the 650 and the others are Dillon dies simply because I didn't already have them on hand. I do like the Dillon dies over the RCBS because you can pull the clip and take the die apart. Now, if one were to put a RCBS up against the Dillon product it would soon make a convert out of the RCBS owner.

[jmorris]

Now,

Can you put a case collator on a SD? Yes, I've seen custom ones.

I have only seen one SD with case feed.



Can you put a bullet dropper on the SD? No

Not with that attitude. ;)

[Patrick L]

6bg6ga,

You are right, I do tend to favor RCBS, but I have nothing against Dillon. Its just that I don't own any Dillon presses. I do have a Super Swage, which is awesome, and I have reloaded probably a grand total of less than 50 rounds on two separate SDBs, both belonging to friends who were showing me their new toys. That seems like a very nice little press too. Like I said, I think some day I might like a Dillon press. I have never heard anything negative from anyone who owned one. And I agree about their dies too, the ability to just pop the innards out for cleaning is a great idea.

[6bg6ga]

6bg6ga,

You are right, I do tend to favor RCBS, but I have nothing against Dillon. Its just that I don't own any Dillon presses. I do have a Super Swage, which is awesome, and I have reloaded probably a grand total of less than 50 rounds on two separate SDBs, both belonging to friends who were showing me their new toys. That seems like a very nice little press too. Like I said, I think some day I might like a Dillon press. I have never heard anything negative from anyone who owned one. And I agree about their dies too, the ability to just pop the innards out for cleaning is a great idea.

What was your thought on the SD? My hands seem to be too big and get in the way. Kinda like watching a monkey and a football.

[Patrick L]

Yes, it was kind of cramped, but it worked, and worked well. Actually I was impressed with how many features these little presses incorporate. I remember when they introduced these back in the mid 80s, they sold for $135. It was an awful lot of press for the money. Too bad they don't still sell for that!

[odis]

Yes, it was kind of cramped, but it worked, and worked well. Actually I was impressed with how many features these little presses incorporate. I remember when they introduced these back in the mid 80s, they sold for $135. It was an awful lot of press for the money. Too bad they don't still sell for that!HAHA thats when I bought mine and back then it was a lot of money, well worth it though.

[warf73]

Looking at the cost again

$1536 for a 650 with toys

Remove the collator if you can build your own and take off $218 and the cost goes to $1318

Remove two die sets if you already have dies and the cost goes down to $1190.70

Remove another $38.00 for the aditional collator plate and your around $1152

In summary.... if you already own die sets and are capable of making your own collator the price of the 650 is darn close to three SD machines.

If your capable of making your own collator and have 2 die sets then the 650 is roughly $10 cheaper.

I'm not build anything, I could loose the powder cop which are like $65 per but would be replaceing them with a MrBullet Feeder which is $465 plus shipping. So now the 650 is considerabley more than the SDB's but would out produce the SDB by almost 3x if not 4x.
The reason for the Dillion die set is my current dies don't have a separt crimping die, but the Dillion sets do and that is really nice (never knew how nice till I got a set).

As of now the 650 will probly be purchased with one set up and then buy the convertions when needed instead of dropping so much cash up front.

[warf73]

If I come across a good deal on SDB I would buy it and give it a go, but used is selling within a few bucks of new. I refuse to pay that, I'll just buy new and call it a day.

[6bg6ga]

I'm not build anything, I could loose the powder cop which are like $65 per but would be replaceing them with a MrBullet Feeder which is $465 plus shipping. So now the 650 is considerabley more than the SDB's but would out produce the SDB by almost 3x if not 4x.
The reason for the Dillion die set is my current dies don't have a separt crimping die, but the Dillion sets do and that is really nice (never knew how nice till I got a set).

As of now the 650 will probly be purchased with one set up and then buy the convertions when needed instead of dropping so much cash up front.

A obtain 15 rounds a minute with my 650

[warf73]

A obtain 15 rounds a minute with my 650

How is yours set up 6bg6ga?
I'm guessing at 900 per hour your running a bullet feeder with case feeder, a good guess?

[6bg6ga]

Yes, a bullet feeder with tubes of bullets ready to replace the empty one. Has a home made case collator also.

[DaveInFloweryBranchGA]

103321

To be blunt I can change over faster with this than you can a RCBS.

The RCBS I have has one of those and the changeover speed is the same as any Dillon 550/650, though they call a tool head a die plate. I own a progressive six station press not because I need one any more, but for the speed they provide in getting the work done and over with. I don't need a case feeder for the style of loading I do and I prefer strip priming over tube priming, so I bought the RCBS. It's a fast machine, but I only operate it when I'm watching TV with the wife. I do so during the commercials. Crank out the cartridges without noticing I'm doing so. She doesn't miss me because she's away from the TV doing stuff herself. Reloading this way, I can knock out several thousand cartridges without ever noticing I'm doing so.

That said, if I were shooting high volumes today and knew back when what I know now, I would have just bought a 1050 loaded, added a bullet feeder, a case feeder and been done with it back when. The versatility of the many multiple stations and the speed of a machine with a case & bullet feeder simply cannot be matched by the lesser machines, no matter what one does.

And these larger, multiple station machines lend themselves to automation, if one needs to be totally free to do other things. Jmorris' posts display this clearly for anyone to see.

There's an old expression that goes something like: "Use enough gun for the job." There oughta be an expression for loading that goes something like this: "Use enough press to free yourself from drudgery (Which is what high volume cartridge loading feels like.) so you have time to live your life."

[DaveInFloweryBranchGA]

Now, if one were to put a RCBS up against the Dillon product it would soon make a convert out of the RCBS owner.

Uh, no, not in every case. I've owned a Dillon product - the 550 and I've loaded a lot on my buddy's 650. I own the RCBS Pro 2000 auto-advance model. Mine was problematic out of the box, but RCBS support was superlative and got me through the problems in short order. The machine is now perfectly tuned/timed and is an absolute pleasure to use, as well as being a very clean press. Much, much cleaner than my buddy's 650.

It's only negative is it doesn't come from the factory set up to take a case feeder and RCBS doesn't make one. But adapting this unit to accept a case feeder would not be hard at all. Our friend Jmorris on here could probably knock the job out without breaking a sweat.

[jmorris]

A fellow tinkerer, GW Star figured how to case feed an RCBS a few years ago.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=659144&highlight=Pro+2000+case+feed