Armscor .223 brass?

[trails4u]

Hi gang;

I've recently encountered a small mountain of newer Armscor .223 brass, (A USA) headstamp. It's way more than I'll ever use, so I've tried selling some if it, but not gaining much interest. With that, I've started a 'torture test', to try to find out what the story is with this stuff. If no one else wants it, maybe I do?? That's the thought process, for what it's worth! :)

So far, I've made it through five loadings (10 case sample), after sizing and trimming to 1.750. My test load is 26.2gr of Varget over hornady 55g FMJBT at 2.240. Not super hot, but a decent load.

Here's what I've learned (after 5 loadings):

The greatest stretch I've seen yet is around .006 after 5 firings. Most are less than .003, but one did measure .006.

Primer pockets are very tight, and have stayed that way. I've loaded CCI, Win and Rem primers, all still tight. (For the sake of full disclosure, CCI primers seem to seat a bit high, but not the Win or Rem)

No split necks, no indications of impending case head separation, all still gauge through a Wilson case gauge after resizing.

I plan to work the brass to failure...this weekends project. It got dark, so I only made 5 so far. I'll report back once I shoot it to death. ;)

Question: Any one else loading/working with this brass? If so...any insight??

Thanks! Trails4u.

[GRUMPA]

Armscor brass change there head stamp the beginning of last year to A USA with a box that says made in USA. The brass left in its current state holds up rather well. The issue comes if anyone wants to convert it into 300 Blackout brass, the case thickness is rather thick and is useless for anything else but 223/5.56.

I had a few K of it once and was real happy when brass was at the time harder to find at a good price. I think I sold it all for about .06ea at the time and wont deal with it ever again. I have enough of the domestic brass so I don't want any of the foreign brass just taking up space.

[trails4u]

Thanks Grumpa....

Interesting that it's thick....it actually slides through the dies pretty easy, similar to R-P in feel. Thick, but soft, maybe?? Dunno...but I'm interested in it for 5.56. I've got a bunch....and if it holds up, I just might be set for a while!!

[trails4u]

So I've continued to work on the Armscor brass.....it's interesting.

I measured the web thickness. It averages between .182 and .184 across a 10-case sample. One of the moderators from arfcom considers .185 to be his standard, which is what he finds in LC brass.

I also ran some tests to measure case capacity. This was REALLY interesting. In a nutshell, the average case capacity was about .31gr less than LC 12 brass (30.65 vs 30.96) measured by volume of water. The shocking part was the consistency of the cases. The variation in the Armscor brass was .6gr across a 10 case sample, but was 1.0 over a 10 case sample of LC 12. I'm having a hard time with this result....so I'm prepping 10 more cases of each to make a 20 case sample and run the numbers again.

I'll keep posting on this if anyone else is interested. I'm starting to think I've found a new 'good' brass.....but not convinced yet. I'm still hung up on the Armscor thing....it's cheap, and I know their components (bullets) are not considered by many to be good.

More to come......

Thanks! Trails4u

[trails4u]

Worked on this project a bit more....I'm through 10 firings of my sample lot, still holding up well. No split necks, pockets are still tight, I'm about to give up on the 'torture test.' I don't know that I've ever had a case long enough to load 10 times, so I'm beyond convinced on the issue of longevity. I did resize back to 1.750 after the 6th loading....most of the cases were measuring around 1.760 at that point.

I've also been working more on the case weight/capacity end of the testing... This has been interesting. The second 10 case sample differed enough from the first that I now find my results to be completely inconclusive. The second lot of AUSA was again smaller in capacity by about .35gr or so, but not as consistent as the first. In this batch, the AUSA ranged 0.7gr, while the LC ranged 0.4. More to come on this....I'm going to run a third sample and compare/collate the results into one (hopefully) meaningful piece of data.

Why???? because I can, I guess. It's an unknown......can't help but try to figure it out! :)

[DaveInFloweryBranchGA]

Thank you for posting your results. I'm always interested in a new source of brass and the number of shootings one gets out of it.

Best Regards,

Dave

[jackmanuk]

you goto blow them cases up , have you tried a different powder

[trails4u]

Jack; I'm sure I COULD blow the brass up...... :) but I'm more interested in learning what this stuff can do with 'normal' use. I know...normal is a scary word, but my current test load is 26.2gr Varget over 55g Hornady FMJBT at 2.250. Pretty average load for 5.56 in my experience. I have 4350, 748 and BLC2...guess I could mix it up a bit for grins. ??

I did find that after round 6 or 7 I really had to clean the primer pockets WELL to get the primers to seat below the case head. This is the one area where I may be finding a negative in this brass. The pockets do seem a few thousandths shallow compared to LC and others. I should measure this and report back on that as well. (duh?? took me this long to think of that??)

If the masses say go forth and kill the cases, I will continue. 10 firings was enough to satisfy my curiosity, but if someone wants the torture to continue, then it shall be so.....

I do wonder what the neighbors think....10 rd. strings every 10 minutes or so?? :)

[jackmanuk]

lol if them next door aint called the cops yet then there better than mine

[trails4u]

i suppose it's a bit different for you, being 'across the pond' and all. we have it pretty good here in carolina....no one worries much about what we do, and we live out in the sticks, so life is good.

i did visit your end of the world once....i believe we stayed in staines for a week or so, visited cornwall, york, saw tintagel and a few other castles ....nice country, and EXCELLENT beer. I do miss the beer. It's been 25 yrs. or so...but I do remember an occasional pint of bitter. Damn, it was good.

[jackmanuk]

yes its a trade off gun in US or beer in UK having both at a compromise is a sad thing but the way the world works

shame i live here since i dont drink beer :?

[Guardian]

I had the same issue with A USA brass as you describe with the primer pockets. I swaged the pockets with a Dillon SS600 and uniformed the primer pockets with a Sinclair uniforming tool, but still had issues with tight primer pockets.

I lost several to the scrap pile for "thin" case webs. I cull anything under 0.180 and segregate 0.180>0.189 and >0.190. It's a bit arbitrary, but that's what I do. The loss was minimal, far less than what I lose with PMC headstamps.

I don't remember how many I had, but it was around 2k, IIRC. The flash holes were centered, more than I can say for some other brands.

The A USA brass has some quirks, but it works ok. If I had access to a bunch of it for low cost, I'd take it.

[Dhammer]

Very interesting. Thanks for posting. I hate to shoot up most of the 5.56 I have because it all commands a premimium price now. Wish I had bought more cases. Now I see why my commander was literally buying by the pallett to my cases. :) when we could get good 5.56 cheap.
I had some bulk stuff I bouht years before and decided I would shoot that, then reload it. Haha ha it turned into a disaster. The brass was a disaster.
I'v been looking for some cheap brass and maybe the armscorp could be the ticket.
Thank you for posting and I look forward to reading more about your experimentation.

[Baron von Trollwhack]

If you expect accuracy consistency, case volume and weight is important. One can always dedicate some headstamps to less than first class use, some to minimal use, some to cast boolits, some to making dummies, or just junk. It is your call.

BvT

[trails4u]

Thank you Baron....my point exactly in this exercise. Which pile does the A-USA belong in?? So far, my thoughts are: probably not benchrest, but likely good enough for 3-gun or similar competition, definitely good for plinking/target. This, I know is subjective....but that's the point of such a forum, isn't it? My next step will be to load some and put it on paper at 100yds..... I'd also like to chrono a test sample, just to see if the #s run as expected with the case volumes varying 0.7gr, as compared to LC at 0.4gr. I would expect to see a statistically similar range in velocities....but only a day at the range can prove/disprove that. Dang....guess I need to spend a day at the range. Bummer.... :)

[wv109323]

There is a story in the American Rifleman about the parent company. They make the Rock Island Arsenal 1911 and are moving manufacturing into the US.

[trails4u]

Guardian;

Thanks for adding to this post! This is what I was hoping for...finding some other folks who have worked with this brass, so I (we) can start to fully understand what I have. I know some of you think I'm beating this thing to death, for that I apologize, but I have many thousands of these cases...a lifetime supply IF they're reliable and consistent enough to be trusted.

[trails4u]

Well....eleventh firing (10th reloaded) I got my first case failure with the A-USA brass, and a strange one at that..... I almost missed it, but when brushing out case necks for the next go round, I found a pinhole in one of the necks. Not really a crack, but it looked more like it was pierced from ejecting. My rifle tends to hit the necks pretty hard when ejecting, so my guess is that this particular neck got hit twice (or more) in the same spot, resulting in a puncture wound rather that a traditional split neck. Either way....I'm now officially done with the 'torture testing' part of this experiment. I'll call it at 9.....pretty good in my book.

I did find a chart (on accurateshooter.com, I think) that listed quite a few popular brass by case volume, and indicated a 50-case sample was used in their measurements. I don't know that I'll go 50, but I am thinking maybe a fresh 30-case sample to add/compare to that chart. Early indications are that this stuff should fall out near the middle of the pack.

I'll keep working/posting as long as there's interest.....

Thanks! Trails4u.