Upside down primers

[Jersey Joe]

Yes I'm a newbie...please be gentle :)

1st batch...I loaded and shot about 100rds without issue. Started on my 2nd batch and this happened. Dillon 650. Is there anyway to prevent this without having to look at every primer in the wheel(which is difficult to see on the Dillon)? I humbly await your response.

JJ

[Bayou52]

Been there, done that.

I check every round after reloading and prior to storage.

[Jersey Joe]

Right...easy to catch after the fact, but was wondering if there was anyway to catch it before seating the primer. There may not be, I'm just hoping there is.

[HATCH]

How are you loading primers into your tubes?
The only way I get upside down primers in my 650 is if I load them into the tubes upside down.
On the 550 its easy for them to flip in the slide but the 650's primer setup its real hard to flip them unless they were already flipped.

[Jersey Joe]

I lay them out shiny side up, pick them up with the pickup tube, flip it over on top of the press tube, pull the pin.

[imashooter2]

Make your bench stiffer.

[Hawkeye45]

I have had that problem also. My remedy is to keep the primer area CLEAN. I keep a can of compressed air designed for computers near the reloading area to blow out the junk that can build up from depripriming. BTW Dillon just replaced a 30 year old impact boolit puller that broke when I was breaking down a round with the reversed primer.

Mr. Ed

[ACrowe25]

^ that or triple check they're all the same way prior to loading.

[Walter Laich]

I check mine when I put them in ammo boxes. Smooth working of press seems to help but still get a flipped one now and then.

[w5pv]

I hand prime my brass and start by turning the brass head side up and keep it head side up until I put the powder charge in and even with that method I will get one in upside down some times but then I just take the universal deprimer die and gently push it out and reload it and set it aside to be loaded seperately and shot at a paper target.I have had a few sqibes caused by not just throwing the primer away but I am also a tightwad.A penny is a penny.

[bosterr]

Never get flipped primers in my 650. My Square Deal B for my .44 Mag works good too, but my Square Deal B set up for 45 ACP is a problem.

[Mike W1]

Have the tubes on my SDB also and have noticed if they're going to be flipped it happens when I dump the tube. Keeping it perfectly vertical and the plastic plunger in place and then pulling the retaining pin I'm good to go. It invaribly happens when I don't keep that pickup tube vertical.

[Jersey Joe]

Make your bench stiffer.

I suspect you may be onto something here. I have a .25" plate that I'm going to use for rigidity. It currently isn't too bad but there is a bit of flexing. I'm also going to try anchoring it to the block wall.

[OBIII]

I prime with Lee handloaders, and the only time I have experienced this is if the brass was crimped. Possibly a batch of brass with tight primer holes.

OB

[too many things]

the 650 "jumps" guy on feebay' has a bearing kit ---or maybe some one here can get you the stock number from grainger but it will stop it I dont have the parts number any more but it is a flat roller and 2 washers lube it well with light oil
maybe you can find info on enous web
but I have sen it posted on here

[Hardcast416taylor]

When I was loading pistol ammo in the K`s I started getting your same problem on my Hornady Pro-Jector press. I finally traced the problem to the priming arm actually flipping the primer that was next in the tube to be used. I was using Federal primers at the time. I hand inspected several trays of fresh primers and found the flipping cause - uneven height primer anvils. I had fewer flipped primers with Winchester, CCI and Remington primers, but liked Federal for their more sensitive ignition. What I finally did was stop priming on the press and start doing it off press with a LEE hand priming tool. It has been over 20 years since I stopped priming on the press and to tell the truth I really don`t miss doing it.Robert

[trapper9260]

I use a Lyman T press and I get the flip primers once in a great while.What I see happened is that you have the auto feed set up and when the arm flip back to get the next primer that sometimes the primer flips on you.What I do is when i load the primers I keep the case up side down all the time that way I see that the primer is in right also if it has a primer and then when I put the powder in that i know what ones have powder and what ones dose not . Because the ones right side up will have the powder and then the ones that are up side down is not with powder.I do like stated that I slowly press the upside primer out and flip it and put it back in right and then finish loading the case like I normally do after.

[bangerjim]

That is why I always use a Lee hand primer! Never any problems. I would never rely on any press, no matter it's high cost or supposed reputation, to do priming of my brass!


banger

[imashooter2]

I suspect you may be onto something here. I have a .25" plate that I'm going to use for rigidity. It currently isn't too bad but there is a bit of flexing. I'm also going to try anchoring it to the block wall.

You need to stiffen a large area. Just putting a plate under the press will be of little help if the bench flexes around the plate. My bench was an old 1.25 inch thick plywood counter top. (Not the particle board they use today.) I put another 3/4" of plywood underneath with a tube of construction adhesive and added some cleats into the uprights as well. POOF! The primer flipping went away.

[FLINTNFIRE]

I had a square deal b flip primers , the previous owner had the same problem , what I found was a burr on the shell plate filed off and no more flipped .

[Valley Forge]

Securing the 650 is primary to it's functioning properly and you may also be having a timing problem. I had that problem and it turned out the primer's edge was being clipped as the anvil came up through the shellplate which flipped the primer. Call Dillon and they will send you a little alignment tool that helps you adjust this.

[jakharath]

I second securing your bench. My 'bench' has 12" ell brackets connecting it to the wall. It helps a bunch.

Just wait till you slam a primer in sideways. Have done that a few time with my 550. (pre ell bracket)

[Recluse]

Load long enough on a true progressive press and you will simply have the occasional irregularity in a finished round from time to time. I don't lose any sleep over it--pull the boolit, save the powder, toss the primer and load 'er back up again.

It's annoying, but I got over it years ago and accepted that I was going to have the occasional "ugly" round out of any given progressive press that I used as a true progressive to crank out copious amounts of rounds with.

I keep a little small plastic tray on my bench and in it goes the "mistakes" or the "damn- its" and I call them. Once a year or so, I'll spend a few hours pulling various boolits (maybe crimp was wrong, seated too deep, etc) and salvaging lead and brass. Powder gets tossed in the yard, primers get tossed in with the detonated primers.

:coffee:

[Jersey Joe]

Can you actually get the inverted primer out safely? I would be pretty nervous doing that....like a bomb tech :-)

[ghh3rd]

The technique I've frequently seen posted here to kill a primer is to apply a drop of WD40 and wait for a couple of hours. I would wait overnight, but that's just me.

[ghh3rd]

I keep a can of compressed air designed for computers near the reloading area to blow out the junk that can build up from depripriming
I may be over sensitive about primer dust but... you might want to be careful not to breath that airborne particulate matter, nor to spread it all over the place, as primers contain a form of lead. In fact, when I tumble my brass I am careful not to breath the dust, since some if it came from primer pockets. Plus, there's no need to spread the nasty stuff around and track it through the house :-\

[Enyaw]

I've never had a single upside down primer with the preses I use. I use the Lee Auto Index Turrtet press and the newer Lee Classic turret press(also auto indexing). I do have to load the primers into the primer arm one at a time with my fingers. Slows me down but never a flipped primer.
I did try a Lee Load Master that continuously flipped primers. Sent it back.

I thunk it's sound wisdom to use a primer tool that works since upside down primers can "ignite and cause harm". The Lee Hand Primer works. I had one once and when still new gave it away. No use for it.

Just wondering....if primers can flip due to "non ridgid" work benches could the primer tube be over size? Any way to revamp to a slightly smaller inside diameter tube so the primers can't flip in the tube.

Are the RCBS plastic primer strips any more reliable as in..... never a flipped primer? They still sell those plastic primer strips?

Anywhoooo......since primers upside down can cause safety problems I'd use some sorta hand primer. All the primers ignite from an upside down one that can get to the powder measure if one is installed and cause "flames". Heard of it happening with some presses.

Better to be safe than sorry.

[Jersey Joe]

This is what happens...

http://njgunforums.com/forum/index.php/topic/54478-ever-wonder-what-happens-when-100-primers-go-boom-in-your-press/?hl=%2Bprimer+%2Btube#entry701785

[BruceB]

The technique I've frequently seen posted here to kill a primer is to apply a drop of WD40 and wait for a couple of hours. I would wait overnight, but that's just me.

If you expect WD40 to kill a primer, I STRONGLY suggest you wait a COUPLE OF WEEKS.

I say this because, rather than "hearing about it", I TRIED it.

I submerged CCI Large Pistol primers in separate baths of WD40, gun oil, and Hoppes #9 solvent.

I then tried firing several primers from each bath every 24 hours. It took many days before they were finally inert.

Try it for yourselves if you're really interested. All it requires is sacrificing a few primers, and then you will KNOW how foolish all the Internet blather really is.

[mold maker]

I wouldn't treat primers I thought were inert, any different than one fresh out of the box. It's like treating all guns as if loaded.
I have punched out several that were either upside down or sideways, with no ill effects. That said, I was using all precautions and going really slow.
If the brass is common and cheap, why take a chance?

[MTSWAGER]

Have seen this problem several times, 3 issues i have found that cause this.

1. crud built up under the shell plate, or the shell plate is to tight.
2. the shell plate needs to be advanced faster, their is the black block on the left side that has 2 socket head cap screws in it.

what happens is, the shell plate is still rotating, when the primer is starting to move up, if the primer moves up and touches the shell plat as it clicks to its stop position, it will flip the primer, some times 180, and or 90 deg.

3. Their is a spring loaded arm that holds the brass in the shell plate at the priming station, make sure their is a space between the arm and the case, this allows the brass to float a bit in the shell plate, and the primer will self align in the brass, if the brass is to tight, the primer will/may catch the edge of the brass and flip. this adjustment seems to be more of a problem with the 45 brass.

[freebullet]

Don't have a 650 but have a couple hint that may be worth what your paying for them.

I use a small brush to clean primer slide area. Compressed air adds moisture.

The bench must be rock solid.

The way you pull the pin to let primers go down the tube can cause this. If you jerk the pin out it can do this. Make sure the tube is lined up good. Pull the pin half way out to the point its still holding the primers then realign the tube and pull it the rest of the way out. No jerkyness.

Hope that helps.

[Changeling]

Call Dillion. A 650 is not cheap, let them make things right/fix. I expect they have heard every problem there is concerning there equipment, contact them for a "factory fix"!

Actually I would bet they would prefer you calling them than talking about problems it in publick.

[John Boy]

Joe, here's a trick I use with the 550B ... When you are finished filling the primer pick up tube, turn it upside down so the plastic cup is at the top. Then push all the primers down with a small rod to remove any space. Then store all the filling primer pick up tubes vertically with the plastic cups at 12:00
Out of maybe 20,000+ reloads, I'm guessing that about a dozen primers have been seated upside down

For those loaded upside primer rounds - kinetic bullet puller time

[WILDEBILL308]

When I drop a new tube of primers I use a spare primer follower rod this pushes the primers out of the plastik pick up tip and makes sure all the primers leave the tube. I had a problem with small primers flipping in my 550. I replaced the plastic tip on the magazine that controls the primers and try to operate the press smouthley.
Bill

[ROGER4314]

I have two RL550B's and break no speed records with them. That goes double when I load rifle rounds! I LOOK at the primer arm and LOOK at my powder charge! If a primer is flipped, it's real easy to detect and correct before I seat the primer. If the powder charge is not visible, I watch the powder measure arm to check for a full stroke. If that takes a little more time, then that's OK with me.

Flash

[6bg6ga]

How are you loading primers into your tubes?
The only way I get upside down primers in my 650 is if I load them into the tubes upside down.
On the 550 its easy for them to flip in the slide but the 650's primer setup its real hard to flip them unless they were already flipped.

I'll have to agree with Hatch. Never had any flipped and I don't see how its possible to do so. An error must have been made when loading the primer tube.

[colt1911com]

that wont happen on a rcbs pro 2000......

[dragonrider]

Make your bench stiffer.

What he said,

[ROGER4314]

The primer explosion pictures were a real eyeopener!

Incidentally, some of the other guys touched on the use of compressed air to keep the press clean. I have a very small Campbell Hausfeld air compressor right at my reloading bench. I have bigger compressors in the garage but I just needed a small burst of air to clean the presses. That compressor stays right there 24/7. It has worked very well for that purpose.

Flash

[6bg6ga]

that wont happen on a rcbs pro 2000......

I think the machine in question is a Dillon.


When reloading I seriously doubt that your moma is going to hold your hand and check your primers for you. Not everything can be made idiot proof. Since moma can't be there to check your primers it means your going to have to do it yourself. My advise is to step up quit whining about it and keep your head in the game. The dillon 650 doesn't flip primers on you. I have one and from experience I can tell you the primer got flipped because it was put into the tube upside down.

[imashooter2]

I think the machine in question is a Dillon.


When reloading I seriously doubt that your moma is going to hold your hand and check your primers for you. Not everything can be made idiot proof. Since moma can't be there to check your primers it means your going to have to do it yourself. My advise is to step up quit whining about it and keep your head in the game. The dillon 650 doesn't flip primers on you. I have one and from experience I can tell you the primer got flipped because it was put into the tube upside down.

Your experience is not universal fact.

[HATCH]

Not to start a fight but this makes 3 people that own 650s that have the same opinion....

[imashooter2]

Not to start a fight but this makes 3 people that own 650s that have the same opinion....

And opinion is what it is.

[djgoings]

I think the machine in question is a Dillon.


When reloading I seriously doubt that your moma is going to hold your hand and check your primers for you. Not everything can be made idiot proof. Since moma can't be there to check your primers it means your going to have to do it yourself. My advise is to step up quit whining about it and keep your head in the game. The dillon 650 doesn't flip primers on you. I have one and from experience I can tell you the primer got flipped because it was put into the tube upside down.

I've loaded about 20,000 357Mag loads on my Dillion 650. I have had about a dozen primers seated in backwards. I can guarantee that it was NOT caused by putting it in the tube upside down.

[6bg6ga]

Ok, your absolutely right. It was magic then. I still think your moma needs to keep an eye on you when your loading.

Mr. imashooter2 what is your reloading press? And your experience IS universal fact?

[imashooter2]

Ok, your absolutely right. It was magic then. I still think your moma needs to keep an eye on you when your loading.

Mr. imashooter2 what is your reloading press? And your experience IS universal fact?

Neither my experience nor opinion is universal fact and I'm smart enough to know it. I'm also smart enough to know that primers flip in Dillon SDBs, 550s and 650s for a number of reasons. Among them are sloppy transfer into the press magazine, incorrect press adjustment and bench flexing.

Edit to remove inflammatory rhetoric.

[DaveInFloweryBranchGA]

Yes I'm a newbie...please be gentle :)

1st batch...I loaded and shot about 100rds without issue. Started on my 2nd batch and this happened. Dillon 650. Is there anyway to prevent this without having to look at every primer in the wheel(which is difficult to see on the Dillon)? I humbly await your response.

JJ

Hi Joe,

I don't have a dog in this fight, but I slept in my own bed last night, so feel I'm qualified to respond with some things that may or may not help, but should.

1. Be real focused if you're hand loading your tubes. Not saying if you are or aren't paying attention, but if you reduce things that distract you and take your time, you'll insure you're eliminating yourself as the issue.

2. Pull your priming system apart, double check it for burrs and such. Using fine sandpaper and polishing media, smooth it up as much as possible for the best possible operation. Pay attention to what you're doing so you don't round corners and screw up the mechanism. Clean everything real good when you're done and put it back together being careful to adjust everything as precisely as it can be adjusted. In doing this process, look for any areas that might cause a primer to flip on you. A call to Dillon about this one wouldn't hurt for sure.

3. Make your press/bench as stable as possible. Reinforce press and bench both if possible. The less a press bounces around or vibrates during operation, the less chance anything with go out of whack. This applies not only to the priming system, but helps every other operation on the press, so it's just good practice.

4. Consider buying the primer loading device midway sells. I think someone else in the reloading forum posted it was on sale for next to nothing right now. Be a good thing for you to speed up priming reloading and anything that lowers primer loading time reduces the opportunity that something goes wrong.

5. Keep your press as clean as possible. If possible, route all old primers and residue off the press using some kind of tubing. The cleaner a press is, the less often things fail.

6. Retune your entire press to increase smoothness. This will benefit your entire reloading operation as well and will reduce any vibration. By retune I mean polish, clean, lube, precisely adjust every single operation the press performs.

A single one of the things I've suggested may or may not fix your primer problem, but should definitely reduce it significantly. Additionally, the press will run better in general, making for less hang up and less hang ups mean less mistakes while trying to clear the operation and less opportunity for something bad to happen.

There's some things to try that will help any man's operation of his progressive press. It's generic and should work on any press of any make, model, system, progressive, single stage or what not.

I hope this helps,

[ultramag]

that wont happen on a rcbs pro 2000......

I'm a real big fan of green but I think the only thing that may annoy more than a Dillon guy acting like their brand of press is impervious to malfunction is when a RCBS guy does it.

I load on a Pro2000 and just last week flipped a primer in a .45 ACP case. Very unusual granted, my first one actually in thousands of .45 ACP and 9mm rounds, however it obviously can happen. I was loading a small batch to test function and hammering them out much quicker than my usual pace and suspect that as to the why. It does show that a rigid bench, steady hand, and of course loading them the right way to start with is important.....no matter what color press the handle you're yanking on is attached to.

[EddieNFL]

Didn't encounter a flipped primer for the first 12 or 13 years using a 650 averaging between 25K and 30K annually. Five or six years ago I found one...and another and another. After a dozen or so I got smart and contacted Dillon. Warped platform, most likely caused by crushing a case at the sizer station. Installed the updated version and think I've had two or three since. I suspect the RF100 may be the culprit, but I can live with ~0.01 percent failure rate.

[Echd]

I'll have to agree with Hatch. Never had any flipped and I don't see how its possible to do so. An error must have been made when loading the primer tube.

It's very possible, especially on an insubstantial bench.

[6bg6ga]

When properly mounted to a bench that doesn't move I doubt that primmer flip will occur. Logic would dictate that if your going to put this amount of cash out for a Dillon 650 or other press you would have enough on your shoulders to know the bench should be secure.

As pointed out three of us do not experience primmer flips and just possibly because we have benches that

A. don't move and B. We exercise caution when we load the primer tubes.

Please do accept my apology here as I thought that anyone smart enough to reload should also know that a bench that your mounting your reloading press on should be free of movement.

[HATCH]

I do have a rare occasion that I have a flipped primer but its the RF100 doing that to me not the 650. When I loaded the primers by hand I never had that issue.
My bench is 3/4 marine grade plywood built using 2x4s and bolted or screwes together. It is bolted to the floor. Not that it would move with the 1/2 ton of cast boolits on the bottom shelf. Bottom line is my bench doesn't move unless it's a earthquake

[EddieNFL]

When properly mounted to a bench that doesn't move I doubt that primmer flip will occur.

And in the 30's someone decided it was physically impossible for bumblebees to fly, but they forgot to tell tell the bees.

[Jersey Joe]

Well...I'm glad my simple question induced such spirited conversation!

I do appreciate the feedback and constructive criticism. I've been a member of many forums, and know the climate, so the offensive comments and such are taken as merely collateral damage :)

In regard to my issue, I've since loaded 200 more rounds without any problems. Although I don't see much movement as is, I intend to mount the metal plate, and also secure it to the wall.

Thanks again Gents :beer:

[WILDEBILL308]

Well...I'm glad my simple question induced such spirited conversation!

I do appreciate the feedback and constructive criticism. I've been a member of many forums, and know the climate, so the offensive comments and such are taken as merely collateral damage :)

In regard to my issue, I've since loaded 200 more rounds without any problems. Although I don't see much movement as is, I intend to mount the metal plate, and also secure it to the wall.

Thanks again Gents :beer:

Glad you got some useful help. One thing I have found for a lubricant is powdered teflon it is inert and can't hurt your primers or powder like an oil could. I use it on the powder slide and the primer slide.
Bill

[birddog]

Jersey Joe,
First off don't suffer through the issues with a Dillon and not call tech services.
Charlie

[labradigger1]

I have rarely had any primer issues with my two 550's but...
Tonight i loaded up 400 44 mags and started out using circa 59-61' rws large pistol primers i have had forever. These primers have a very convex top to them, so much so they jammed in the primer tubes constantly from trying to flip over and sometimes did.
I thought i would never get the jammed primers out of the tubes. I dont know if this helps or not but this evening was the first trouble i have ever had with dillons primer system. I think i'll keep the rws primers for the turret press or trade bait.
Lab