1912 shtle iii

[Ilwil]

I've had this one for a long time. It does not chamber ammunition, I'm guessing the head space is off. I've enjoyed it though, because my grandfather was in the British Army during WWI. I have a couple of questions someone might be able to answer.

The rifle was made in 1912, and most of the components have a matching serial number. The receiver is marked with a "B" over the serial#, 8620. The stock appears to be a later war replacement, as it is not cut for the long range volley sights, but it was cut for the identity disk, replaced with a wooden plug. Here is what perplexes me: The rear sight is not windage adjustable, but elevation only, as most war time Lees were so made. Yet it has the same serial number as the bolt and receiver, so it is original to this rifle. Does anyone know why this might be so? Were some prewar Enfields deliberately made, for other usages, say by the Royal Navy instead of being meant for the infantry and cavalry?

Second, is there a feasible way to restore its shootability, like replacing the bolt head? I know Enfields are known for this problem after long service, but this old girl is in pretty good shape.

Also, I have a magazine cutoff and screw not original to the gun. I was going to install it, but won't now. Is anyone in need of a cut off, for restoration purposes? Let me know.

[Dutchman]

It does not chamber ammunition, I'm guessing the head space is off.

You need to explain further about this failure to chamber. Headspace isn't going to interfere with chambering a cartridge. Be more clear on what the problem is..


Dutch

[DCM]

Pics?
If the headspace is excessive the ammo would fall in and might rattle around.
Can you get pics from the breech?
At this point a chamber casting may be in order but we are a bit sort on info.

[MtGun44]

Is it possible that the front half of a ruptured case is still stuck in the
chamber? Not at all uncommon with handloaded ammo.

The only way I could imagine that "headspace" could prevent chambering is if someone
had replaced the bolt head with a longer one that was not needed. Most Enfields
have a bit of excessive headspace, which will not interfere with chambering ammo.

Also - exactly what ammo are you trying to chamber? What markings and what
source?

Bill

[Bloodman14]

Need more info, and pics would help.

[hardy]

Hi, the famous headless case was my first thought.Enfields are known for head separation.Good luck,it,s a fairly simple job to remove the offender.My Grandad was in the British army also,in France. God only knows how he survived,he passed 35 years ago and I still think fondly of him.Ramble over.Cheers,Mike.

[Ilwil]

I was imprecise, and relying on imperfect old memory. Rounds chamber just fine, there is nothing like a stuck broken case. The problem is that the bolt will not close on a chambered round. My grasp of head space issues is demonstratively limited; I've been primarily a pistol guy all my life. Thanks to all who commented, but I cannot see how pictures could shed any light on this.

[andy h]

Are you sure the bolt head has been screwed into the bolt body properly ,Just one thread not enough and the bolt will not close and lock on a full chamber.

[Dutchman]

but I cannot see how pictures could shed any light on this.

You may not see, but we may see... you see?

Take a good close up of the bolthead/cartridge rim area at the point where it won't go further.

Dutch

[MtGun44]

Here is the concept of headspace - for a rimmed round. Headspace is the dimension which
is used to ensure that ammunition will work in a particular gun - holding the case in place
to let the firing pin hit it. In this example, a rimmed case uses the rim to "headspace". A
headspace gage will ONLY measure the distance from the bolt head to the front of the RIM
COUNTERBORE in the barrel. If rims are too thick or the rim counterbore is too shallow, the
bolt cannot close on the case, due to insufficient headspace. That said most SMLEs have
slightly excessive headspace - the rim is significantly thinner than the distance from the bolt
face to the front of the rim counterbore. This is not idea, and if WAY too much can result in
the firing pin being unable to reach the primer.

In this particular situation it is possible that the ammunition is "headspacing" on the shoulder
rather than the rim - extremely unusual in a SMLE, they usually have very loose chambers
in the shoulder area. In this situation, you could see that the rim was not all the way down
into the counterbore in the barrel. If the rim appears to be about the same thickness as the
counterbore in the barrel for it, and the rim seems to be seating all the way down into the
rim counterbore - then it has to be the bolt head.

Are you aware that he bolt head unscrews on the SMLE? If unscrewed one turn this could be
the whole issue. Also, these come in different dimensions and it is possible that a larger sized
bolt head has been installed which would leave the headspace insufficient.

IMO the most likely situation is the bolt head is unscrewed a turn.

Bill

[gew98]

As an aside your smle went through a dispersal FTR in early WW2 from your description. Every dispersal rifle I owned had the disc removed and was plugged with a wooden disc. The windage adjustable rear sights were fairly short lived on SMLE production and were usually one of the first items replaced and or pinned in place when FTR'd during and after WW1. Finding any SMLE of pre 1916 vintage in issue original trim is rather hard. I only encountered one many years ago and never let it go . A 1911 date made at enfield...about museum quality and man can it shoot ! , but then again very few enfields can't shoot great !.

[junkbug]

Are you certain you are trying to chamber correct .303 ammo? Surplus Japanese 7.7 semi-rimmed looks very similar, but is not interchangeable. Ditto with 30-40 Krag. Obviously, if it is stamped with civilian cartridge markings, you would know, but if is surplus, you may be in doubt.