The $650 *****

[KCSO]

I hear a lot of complints about the Taurus quality or lack there of so I thought zi would share this one one one of our most beloved... Smith and Wesson.

I ordered a new Smith and Wesson / Walther PPKS for a customer and the gun arrived last week. Today he came to pick it up and we went over the gun and I showed him takedown and cleaning. When we pulled off the slide and ran a brush down the barrel I looked down and HOLY MOLY! There was a section of barrel on the right side that had NO rifling. It was like a reamer had sliped or something and for 3/4" the rifling was wiped out on the right side of the barrel. This on a new gun bearing two of the most famous names in the business. The gun is on it's way back and if it were not NEW and needs to remain that way I would take a chamber cast to keep to show that anyone can mess up.

I wonder how they riflled this barrel to cause this, we will never know as I was told NOT to do ANYTHING to the gun and to ship it right back as is....

[Outpost75]

When I toured the S&W factory in the 1980s with a bunch of others attending the armorer's school, I picked up a 3" heavy-barrel, round butt Model 10-8 which was the current federal contract in production. These were completed guns being cleaned and packaged for shipment, having come from the range. I opened the cylinder and peaked down the barrel and discovered that it was a SMOOTH bore! I then went down the ten-board checking the rest and THEY WERE ALL SMOOTH BORES!

I then asked our host, none other than Roy Jenks himself, "which alphabet soup agency is buying the SNAKE GUNS?, could I buy one of these?"

Perplexed, Roy took the one in my hand and checked it, then reached for another and I stopped him, "The whole ten-board is that way." I said.

"Then," said Roy, they must be for the Border Patrol" and we continued our tour....

[jonp]

Did the BP want them like that for snakes?

[enfieldphile]

These's worse then that!

In the early 80's a group of Colt Pythons were actually shipped and sold @ retail w/o any rifiling! :o that means the end customer had a gun in violation of federal law. :(

Colt got a special exemption from the Treasuary. The end buyer could get a shipping label from Colt to send the gun in for repair w/o fear of arrest or confiscation of the gun by the G men.

[dubber123]

I handled a AMT longslide 10mm that had only 1/2 the rifling, as in one side of the barrel had rifling, the other didn't, for the full length. I briefly had a Taurus Thunderbolt copy in .45 Colt that apparently had a reamer break in it while rifling. It had "teeth" that would rip a patch right off a cleaning rod. The factory returned it as being "Within specifications"..

Thats too bad that S&W is slamming stuff together too fast to even bother looking down the barrel at some point. Hopefully it won't return unrepaired, and "within specifications" :)

[Outpost75]

Did the BP want them like that for snakes?

No, they did not. It was apparent the guns were proofed and never targeted, and that somebody was asleep at the switch.

[freebullet]

They are charging extra for that option. It's new technology, they call it smrifling. It's the ticket.

[Pb2au]

Should have bought a Taurus, equal disappointment for less money.

I really hope that SW makes good on it. That is kinda poor showing to let something like that pass QC.

[missionary5155]

Good evening
Sadly that is the conditions of many manufactured goods in our country. Too many factories are looking first at the "bottom line". Happily there are some who seen to be above par but the older a group gets and the farther from the origonal owner then it just seems there is a lack of real quality control. Those are my observations... I hope your experiences have been better.
Mike in Peru

[Love Life]

If they only knew that QUALITY SELLS!!!!! Look how much extra we pay for Bar-sto's, kriegers, mcmillans, Wilsons, Baers, etc.

People are paying the money for the guarantee NOT to get a lemon.

Quality sells...

[M-Tecs]

In the 80's a buddy order a Remington 700. He couldn't get it it hit anything. He asked me for help. It had no rifling.

[rockrat]

Bought a Ruger MKI bull barrel 22. No rifling in it. Went back asap.

[warf73]

Sad is just a single word that just scratches the surface when you buy a high dollar lemon. Glance at this post of my lemon http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?236428-Short-Story-of-a-S-amp-W-627Pro

Something I did forget to post in my thread, the gun was final inspected(fired and QA'ed)2-25-14.

[Green Frog]

It seems that the end user is expected to provide QC... if it's not bad enough for him to notice something's wrong, it's good enough. Or if the CS Operator can convince him it's "within spec" it's... GOOD ENOUGH! And then they wonder why folks aren't remaining loyal customers like in the old days. :roll:

Froggie

[pietro]

.


The bean counters hath decreed:

It's cheaper to fix however many dozens, under warranty; than spend more time/money, detailing many thousands during production.



:violin:



.

[FergusonTO35]

I thought S&W had parted ways with Walther a couple of years ago?

[Dan Cash]

The Missionary has it right about the decline in the quality of many American manufactured products. I have been an advocate of Russell Moccasin boots but that is likely to change after the overhaul of my most recent pair.

[TCLouis]

My Charter SS Bulldog looked like it was threaded. Wa show a friend and he aske why it was pitted. big ol chunks called out of barrel. Sent it back explaining that it also on fired occasionally.

Came back still firing occasionally and the hammer drop bar broke off and jammed the action.

BACK to the factory again and it came back firing almost every chamber in the cylinder on the 1st through third strike.

THREW it to the rear of the safe a year or two ago cussing all the way.

Taurus 431 is heavy, but accurate and goes BANG every time!

[Frank46]

Local gun shop had a rem 700 in 25/06 that wouldn't hit the broad side of a ban from the inside. Had it on sale for $125, should have bought it and stuck a '06 bbl on it. Frank

[enfieldphile]

Yep!

9 out of 10 Savage Bmags are returned to the factory! The 10 ones are bought by casual shooters who think if it goes "bang", it's good-to-go :lol:


.
The bean counters hath decreed:

It's cheaper to fix however many dozens, under warranty; than spend more time/money, detailing many thousands during production.



:violin:



.

[singleshotman]

I once bought a Ruger no 1 in 45-70, it was one of the first made in that caliber, looked lovely, but the barrel was crooked, it would "walk" all the way up the target, it did not matter what load I tried, either. I sold it of course, maybe some hunter liked it, you know the type that fired three shots in a year, my grandfather was like that, I am a target shooter who never went hunting in my life.

[Crash_Corrigan]

I bought a new Taurus 1911 when they first came out years ago. With a box of federal .45 ACP FMJ ammo I went to the firing line. Shot one and two were good. Three, four and five marched up the target face as they all fired off with one pull of the trigger. I ran thru another 15 rounds of this ammo and I got sequences of two, three and four shots fired like the gun was a full automatic firearm. I took the gun to my dealer and he immediately gave me a new gun and sent the old back to Taurus. It came back three weeks later with all new trigger and sear parts.

In the meantime I had not fired the pristine Taurus. I brought it in and took the original 1911. After I had about 4,000 rounds thru it one day the safety decided to unassemble itself and left parts all over the sand. It brought it back and my gunny replaced what was lost and checked over the entire gun.

It was perfect and the trigger pull had gone down from 3 3/4# when new to a mite over 3# at 4,000 rounds. The finish was showing serious signs of wear and I had it reblued and the ambi safety removed and some fibre optic sights installed with a new set of Camel Bone grips.

It has never looked so good and shot so well. With my handloaded 200 gr LSWC boolits over a mite of Clay's I am getting 1.25" groups at 25 yds from a rest. With full bore factory Cor Bon Powr' Ball 185 gr I am getting 2" groups at 25 yds with terrifying energy and ridiculous terminal performance.

I only wish that they had come out with a Commander Sized version at that would be the bomb.

Yes the Taurus screwed the pooch on the sear etc but they made good on their error. This may not be the best finished or fanciest 1911 out there but for about $500 you get a lot for your oney. I have fired full race .45's and other high end custom 1911's but this one is my favorite. I know this trigger and with the sculpted Bone grips on this weapon it fits my hand and shooting style perfectly. It ain't broke and I am not going to mess with it anymore.

It continues to provide excellent accuracy. It digests anything that fits into the chamber without any fussing and the barrel does not lead up at all. Plus now that it is gussied up a bunch it looks like a Bar B Q gun my El Paso leather holster. Something that good looking should cost more than mine does.

[gwpercle]

My son has a Taurus 92 in 9mm semi-auto , stainless and I have a model 455, a five shot, 45 acp revolver , 2 inch ported barrel with fixed sights. Shot both extensively and no problems. That 45 snub is scary accurate and is now my favorite 45 acp. If they come out with a 3 incher with adjustable Hi-Viz sights I'll mortgage the farm to get one.
These days every maker has *****s. no one has a handle on perfection. I don't have any complaints with Taurus and would buy another if a deal comes along.
Gary

[9.3X62AL]

Just more of the gunmaker--ammomaker--and component maker bull excreta that is driving me away from this hobby field.

[KCSO]

I now have the replacment gun in hand from Davidson's... The bore is WORSE than the other one! Both bores lok like the reamer slipped during chambering and the pilot ate out the rifling. I call S and W and was on hold for an hour no response. Then I E Mailed them and was told they have a 5 day response time to complaints. Meanwhile my customer has given up on Smith all together and I had to give him his money back. This is getting crazy.

[paul s]

I saw a factory new S&W 642 smooth bore, no rifling.

[rintinglen]

Bad as they are now, you shoulda seen the Bangor Punta stuff--there was absolutely no telling whether you'd get a good'un or a disaster waiting to happen.

The two instances that stand out in my mind were a Model 57 with a model 29 cylinder, and a batch of Model 28's that only two of 9 were not sent back to the factory. I was working at the sporting goods counter of a Hardware store then, and in 1976 it seemed as though about every fourth gun had something wrong with it.

Funny thing was that it was the High dollar guns that seemed to give the most trouble. I'd have thought the cheaper, fixed sight guns would have been given less attention, but I honestly can't recall a Model 10 coming back.
Anybody can make a bad gun--it's the customer service to make it right that matters.

[tazman]

In the late 1970's I purchased a brand new Winchester model 70 African grade rifle in 458 winchester magnum.
Had to wait some time to get it as it was semi-custom at the time and was Winchester's finest and most expensive rifle that didn't come straight from their custom shop.
When it came in, the box was pristine and the rifle looked great, right up until you looked down the sights. I had to lift my cheek well off the stock in order to line up the sights.
I pulled the bolt out of the rifle and looked down the barrel. The barrel was bent so badly you could not see the hole in the other end. Brand new and bent over 1/2 inch at the factory. I decided to get my money back on that one.