Tula Primers Range Report

[azrednek]

I first griped about being unable to use Tula primers in my Lock N Load. They jam the primer slider. Being that I became part of the problem by hoarding a bunch. Ordering them apx 10 minutes after Fox News gave it to Obama. For better or worse I'm stuck with them.

I took apx 500 rds of 38 special and 9MM all loaded with Tula primers to the desert yesterday and had some pretty dismal results. Small pistol in particular. The 100 rds of 45AR loaded with LP I had one dud that went bang on the second strike. 9MM and 38 Special out of 400 rds I had 6 duds, 3 fired on second strike and one on the third strike. I carried home and into the garbage one 9MM and one 38. The dead 38 I struck numerous times playing down range Russian Roulette to test myself for flinching in the light weight Charter Arms revolver.

Being unable to use the Tula primers in my Lock N Load they were all loaded with a Lee hand primer. It is possible but highly unlikely operator error may be the cause. If anybody has used the Lee priming tool know it is pretty easy to feel the primers bottom out. I doubt any of the duds were caused by failing to fully seat the primers.

I can't be totally critical as I shot up 100+ 45 Colts, all loaded with Tula primers in a Ruger Blackhawk about 30 or so days ago and didn't have any duds. Also had some 357's along on the previous outing. No duds in 357 but I can't say for sure they were all loaded with Tula primers. The recent outing I used a S&W Model 15, a Charter Arms and five rds only in a Taurus Titanium (my everyday carry gun) for the 38's. The 9's were shot in two Canik pistols. A Model TP-9 and a 55 Stingray. I also ran apx 15, 9's through a Taurus Model 92.

In summary, I'm stuck with the Tula primers. Can't sell them with a straight face and sleep nights. I would only consider parting company with the understanding of possible duds with an experienced shooter. The possibility of a hang-fire with an inexperienced shooter is simply to much to worry about. I will eventually shoot them all up but will avoid putting my life on the line or risking the loss of a trophy buck with Tula primers.

[Outpost75]

I tested some of the PMC primers which were made in Russia in .38 Special. The PMC Russian primers were sold widely several years ago before they started selling them under the Tula brand, but while the individual boxes were of normal PMC packaging, the outer 5000 carton quantity and the overpack container for the 20,000 case lot all said Made In Russia.

Ruger SP101, Police Service Six, GP100 and Blackhawk revolvers with stock actions, and Colt Official police with stock actions, which all produced 0.011" copper indent with the "C" size .225x400 copper crusher, held in the government gage, would set the Russian PMC primers off with no issues. They also ran fine in 9mm ammo fired in Berettas and Glocks.

Revolvers having after-market spring kits, bobbed hammers, or DA-only conversions which reduced hammer throw would not set them off reliably 100 times out of 100 unless driven firing pin protrusion was sufficient to produce 0.0105" indent on the coppers, using the government gage. Revolvers with 0.010" copper indent would produce typically 3 to 5 misfires out of 100. Revolvers having 0.009" copper indent produced as many as 20% misfires. Less than 0.009" indent no cigar.

Worst offenders were S&W J-frames with concealed hammers and coil spring actions. We did not test Taurus or Charter Arms, only S&W and Ruger and old Colts in the training gun vault.

While the government holders for the copper cylinder are readily available, the coppers are not. The last time I bought coppers for use in QA audits, Olin was the sole manufacturer, the coppers had to be bought in minimum lots of 1000 and cost about $1 each. We had to wait until the government was buying some and then piggyback on the order, furnishing written authorization provided by our government customer.

The coppers are not sold to the gunsmith trade, but are available only to the manufacturers to test their products which must meet the government contract specifications for striker indent, and to the independent or private government labs tasked with performing quality audits to determine lot acceptance of contracted weapons.

When the government was still buying .38 Special revolvers, they had to produce 0.010" copper indent in the DA mode. .357s had to do 0.011", and 9mm M9 pistols 0.012".

An M4 carbine must do 0.018".

These Tula primers are constructed very similarly to military 9mm primers used for loading SMG ammunition intended for use in open-bolt weapons with a solid fixed firing pin.

Your Beretta M92 or Glock should set them off, but most .38/.357 revolvers other than Rugers will not.

[alamogunr]

I tested some of the PMC primers which were made in Russia in .38 Special. The PMC Russian primers were sold widely several years ago before they started selling them under the Tula brand, but while the individual boxes were of normal PMC packaging, the outer 5000 carton quantity and the overpack container for the 20,000 case lot all said Made In Russia.

Ruger SP101, Police Service Six, GP100 and Blackhawk revolvers with stock actions, and Colt Official police with stock actions, which all produced 0.011" copper indent with the "C" size .225x400 copper crusher, held in the government gage, would set the Russian PMC primers off with no issues.

Revolvers having after-market spring kits, bobbed hammers, or DA-only conversions which reduced hammer throw would not set them off reliably 100 out of 100 unless driven protrusion was sufficient to produce 0.0105" indent using the government gage. Revolvers with 0.010" copper indent would produce typically 3 to 5 misfires out of 100. Revolvers having 0.009" copper indent produced as many as 20% misfires. Less than 0.009" indent no cigar.

Worst offenders were S&W J-frames with concealed hammers and coil spring actions.

We did not test Taurus or Charter Arms, only S&W and Ruger and old Colts in the training gun vault.

While the government holders for the copper cylinder are readily available, the coppers are not. The last time I bought coppers for use in QA audits, Olin was the sole manufacturer, the coppers had to be bought in minimum lots of 1000 and cost about $1 each. We had to wait until the government was buying some and then piggyback on the order, with authorization provided by our government customer.

The coppers are not sold to the gunsmith trade, but are available only to the manufacturers to test their products which must meet the government contract specifications for striker indent, and to the independent or private government labs tasked with performing quality audits to determine lot acceptance of contracted weapons.

When the government was still buying .38 Special revolvers, they had to produce 0.010" copper indent in the DA mode. .357s had to do 0.011", and 9mm M9 pistols 0.012".

An M4 carbine must do 0.018".

These Tula primers are constructed very similarly to military 9mm primers used for loading SMG ammunition intended for use in open-bolt weapons with a solid fixed firing pin.

Your Beretta M92 or Glock should set them off, but most .38 revolvers will not.

Same thing w/Wolf primers. I've got a bunch and a S&W Model 65 has the bobbed hammer. I was getting 2-3 misfires in every cylinder last week. Put those same loads in the Highway Patrolman and every one fired. I know where those primers will get used

[462]

Wolf/Tula primers are a bit bigger than American manufactured primers. Thus, they require more force to seat, and to a greater depth, and my Lee hand primer was not up to the task. (I've read, here, that some press mounted systems have been problematic, too.)

My solution was to change to a ram prime system, which allows for seating depth adjustment, and seat them .006" to .007" deep.

Been reloading for close to 20 years, and have had two primer failures, one Wolf, one Winchester. The Wolf was missing its primer mixture, but forgot to check the Winchester.

[zomby woof]

you have to make sure they are seated good, almost what you would think of over seated. I'm having really good results with them.

[ACrowe25]

I'll pay good money for your Tula primers. Shoot better or as good then anything else I've shot. Taken a few deer with them in a 44 mag load also. Haven't had a dud in... Idk lost count after the 10-12th brick.

[ACrowe25]

I'll agree, they're harder to seat due to the actual make up (forget who explained it or actually what the actual explanation was but it had to do with Winchester for example pre sets the anvil or something where tula you set it during the seating process? Don't quote me...)

Harder to seat, but 1/2 the cost of Winchester. I'll take the extra pressure during the loaded process. I'm in no hurry.

[Chuck Walla]

I bought some Wolf small rifle recently that were copper colored. Never seen that before. Anyway, had problems with delayed fire. Pull the trigger, and click and slightly later they'd go off. Weird, never had any problems with Wolf before. My Mini 14 hits the primer good and hard and no other primers ever did that in that rifle.

[freebullet]

I've had no problems with tula at all. Even the berdans have been 100%.

Brush the primer slide out and brush in a dash of motor mica on yer lnl primer slide, keeps it working real slick. Only time i have problems with it is if its dirty or I hit a crimped case that I didn't catch.

[Jagdhund]

I'm down to 200 Murom No Heavy Metal Large Pistol primers made in Russia. Have had no problems with the other 800. The only thing I can say, is they do require a little more pressure on my RCBS bench primer seater to get them fully seated and they must be thin metal, because they always flatten.

[M-Tecs]

The Tula primers are slightly larger so they tend to seat harder. Then anvil is also flush and not proud like on the US primers. If they are not fully seated misfires are common. On a US primer if it is flush or slightly below flush you don't have issues. With the Tula if the primer is not fully seated you may have issues. I am at about 25K without a misfire.

[engineer401]

Same thing w/Wolf primers. I've got a bunch and a S&W Model 65 has the bobbed hammer. I was getting 2-3 misfires in every cylinder last week. Put those same loads in the Highway Patrolman and every one fired. I know where those primers will get used

I've used Wolf primers in the past. I thought I'd save some money and give them a try. Never again will I buy them. They are harder to load and they misfire considerably more often than CCI, Remington and Winchester.

[gtgeorge]

No problems with Wolf and Tula for me either. Many packs of 5K have been shot.

[DaveInFloweryBranchGA]

I've never, ever had any problems using the Russian manufactured primers in anything. That said, if you use them, you should think of them as milspec primers that require a deep, hard pin strike as described wonderfully by Output75 in his excellent post.

They are NOT Federal primers designed for tuned guns with light triggers. They are military primers built in Russian military factories to load military ammo with that's going into a weapon with a bolt that likely has a free floating firing pin, to prevent accidental touch off.

So load them for cartridges that are going in military type firearms. Calling them bad and running them down for not firing in revolvers or pistols that have light springs/light firing pin strikes is blaming the primer for doing what it was designed for when the problem is the end user using them for the wrong application.

If you have a gun with a strong firing pin strike, use them with that firearm. If you don't, either buy one or sell them off to someone that does and needs them. Too big a shortage of primers these days to hoard something you're not using.

Just my .02,

[btroj]

Other than being a snug fit n some cases they are working fine for me. I found the large pistol primers were a tighter fit than the small pistol. Either way, I would buy more.

[Bayou52]

On multiple forums, I've read tons of reviews regarding the Russian primers. I'm guessing that about 70% are favorable and about 30% are unfavorable due to FTF issues and difficulting upon insertion issues.

I've never purchased a Russian primer, so I don't have any personal experience with them. However, just the percentage of negative reviews on all of the forums causes me to shy away from them.

So, I'll continue to add a few bucks and buy different brands to avoid the negatives and, more importantly, to avoid the nagging sense of lack of confidence of whether the thing is going to work when it's called upon for use. No sense in reloading if there's a lack of confidence in the final work product. IMHO, at least..........

[gunoil]

Tula primers are great, no duds here! They run great in dillon 650/550/1050 & 2 loadmasters.

Keep em dry in a place where they should be.

[Beesdad]

5k Tula SPP used in the past 6 months... No problems with them if you seat them to the correct depth. They are a great deal @ $23 - $25 K.

[bear67]

I have ran 20+ K of them through Dillon 550s and never had a dud. Had a few not fire in a Rossi J frame size revolver, but it missed on some factory ammo also. I told the owner he needed a spring kit replacement or revolver replacement one or the other. Don't know what he did. I ran some M-1 Garand loads last week with Russian primers and they all ran great. Was tired after 20 clips or so and the grand sons shot many more.

[azrednek]

Point well taken and thanks. Seems operator error may indeed be the blame. With so many having success with Tula and other Rusky primers. I suspect I may need to seat them a bit harder.

I failed to mention in my original post. The two complete duds, one 9MM and one 38 Spec were both loaded in S&B brass. Between the tight S&B primer pockets and the slightly larger and harder Tula primers. After reading the comments posted here my next batch will be loaded with some additional elbow grease in the primer seating step.

EDIT: I only intended to criticize Tula brand but Wolf came up in a few responses. Previously I have shot up about 500 each of Wolf brand SP and SR and an entire pack of one thousand LP. To the best of my recollection I don't believe I had a single dud with Wolf brand. I can say with 100% certainty no duds with the Wolf LP.

[ph4570]

I have been using Tula primers in LG/SM pistol and rifle for about 3 years. I have never had an issue. I do uniform all primer pockets. That likely helps ensuring the primers are fully seated.

[Recluse]

I failed to mention in my original post. The two complete duds, one 9MM and one 38 Spec were both loaded in S&B brass. Between the tight S&B primer pockets and the slightly larger and harder Tula primers.

I've had FTF with every brand of primer there is at one point or another. Notably, I had a box of Wolf small pistol primers some years back in which I was getting an almost 1:2 ratio of FTF. I searched around until I found a customer service contact number for Wolf and called them up.

The nice lady on the phone asked me for the lot number and I gave it to her. She put me on hold for about five minutes. When she came back, she gave me info to ship the remaining brick of primers back to them at their American distributor on their dime, including hazmat and then told me they would either refund me for the full amount or replace them for me.

At the time, small pistol primers were extremely scarce, so I opted for the replacement. A little less than ten days later, I get a package and it is a SLEEVE of Wolf small pistol primers. That's 5000 primers. I only bought 1000 and sent that brick back.

It seems they'd had an issue with several production lots and they were making good.

I've got a lot of Tula and Wolf primers in my cabinet. I use them exclusively for my plinking/fun ammo which is the majority of what I load. I have a lot of Winchester and CCI and those are used for the more serious "match grade" ammo and all hunting loads.

On the most recent Tula FTF, I also noted that it was with some really offbrand brass. I don't separate by headstamp for plinking/fun ammo, but I do for the serious stuff. However, I have no doubt the Wolf/Tula would perform quite well in the brand-name brass and with no problems.

:coffee:

[462]

Wolf and Tula are same-same.

[azrednek]

Wolf and Tula are same-same.

I'm not sure about that as my Wolf primers were silver in color and the Tula are brass colored.

[ph4570]

Wolf and Tula are same-same.

That is what I have been led to believe as well. I believe Tula is the manufacturer and Wolf is an importer/brander. Wolf seems to import not just Ruskie items. Some Wolf 22LR I have was manufactured in Germany.

[LenH]

I've had FTF with Winchester & CCI, out of 10,000 Wolf or Tula primers I've only had 1 or 2 FTF with large pistol.

A buddy of mine bought 10K small pistol and problems right off the bat. Then he found out about the seating problem, and the FTF went away.

[Mike67]

I loaded 1000 primers in mixed 9mm brass on my hornady lnl ap last winter no problems at all. Fired around 200 last summer in Beretta 92 in PPC matches no failures. These we're Tula primers.

[azrednek]

I loaded 1000 primers in mixed 9mm brass on my hornady lnl ap last winter no problems at all. Fired around 200 last summer in Beretta 92 in PPC matches no failures. These we're Tula primers.

Mike67, were your thousand Tula brand primers brass colored?

The Tula primers I have when stacked vertically the primer on top sits to deeply in the primer in the slider hanging up the slider assembly. I have been able to use the Tulas in my Lock N load by alternating every other one with a Winchester. If I screw up loading the tube and get two Tulas in a row chances are good the slider will jam. It has been suggested either on this board or another that by using shim stock raising the entire slider assembly giving the Tulas a bit more clearance it should work. I haven't tried it yet.

Outside of just normal hang-up from gathering of debris. My slider assembly works perfectly with other primer brands. I have a small paint brush I use to sweep away the debris, usually powder flakes and lubricate it with PB Dry Lube. When I first got it I had to stone away a very small burr on the small slider. It worked perfectly until I foolishly panicked and bought up a bunch of the Tula brand.

At least the Tula primers I have are different, not only in color but in their physical characteristics than the Wolf brand I used previously without any problems whatsoever. I had previously used Wolf large pistol, small rifle and pistol but never tried Wolf large rifle. I don't load rifle calibers with the exception of 223 plinkers on my Lock N Load. Preferring to load rifle calibers one at a time on a single stage.

[km101]

Over the last 6 months I have shot Tula SPP in .38spl (S&W J frame, K frame & L Frame), .357 mag (S&W K & L frame), .40 S&W (Springfield), 9mm (Glock, Kel-tec), and .380 (Beretta). I have shot well over 5K rounds and have had only one fail to fire. This was in .38spl. S&W model 15. I tried to fire it several time in two different revolvers, both single action and double action. It was a dud! But I think that 1 out of 5,000+ is an acceptable number.

I have shot over 2K of the LPP in .45acp in various semi-autos with no misfires.

Haven't used any of their rifle primers.

Over the years, I experienced more misfires with Federal and Winchester than I have with Tula. I agree that Tula is slightly larger than the domestic brands and is therefore not a good candidate for milsurp primer pockets in 9mm and .38spl unless they are swaged and chamfered properly, but the only commercial brass that I have had problems seating them in has been S&B, and I think it has several well documented problems. I don't think the primers were the problem.

If you really don't like the Tula brand primers, I'm sure that you can find someone that will gladly take them off your hands, given the current state of the primer market.

[azrednek]

If you really don't like the Tula brand primers, I'm sure that you can find someone that will gladly take them off your hands, given the current state of the primer market.

With so many here not having issues. As much as I hate to admit it, it appears there was some operator error on my part. Although it is possible I got a bad batch. Before I dump them I'm going to try seating them with some additional elbow grease and see if it doesn't fix my dilemma.

[Mike67]

Mike67, were your thousand Tula brand primers brass colored?

The Tula primers I have when stacked vertically the primer on top sits to deeply in the primer in the slider hanging up the slider assembly. I have been able to use the Tulas in my Lock N load by alternating every other one with a Winchester. If I screw up loading the tube and get two Tulas in a row chances are good the slider will jam. It has been suggested either on this board or another that by using shim stock raising the entire slider assembly giving the Tulas a bit more clearance it should work. I haven't tried it yet.

Outside of just normal hang-up from gathering of debris. My slider assembly works perfectly with other primer brands. I have a small paint brush I use to sweep away the debris, usually powder flakes and lubricate it with PB Dry Lube. When I first got it I had to stone away a very small burr on the small slider. It worked perfectly until I foolishly panicked and bought up a bunch of the Tula brand.

At least the Tula primers I have are different, not only in color but in their physical characteristics than the Wolf brand I used previously without any problems whatsoever. I had previously used Wolf large pistol, small rifle and pistol but never tried Wolf large rifle. I don't load rifle calibers with the exception of 223 plinkers on my Lock N Load. Preferring to load rifle calibers one at a time on a single stage.

No they were silver colored. Sorry for not responding sooner.

[azrednek]

No they were silver colored. Sorry for not responding sooner.

THX!! Mike, possibly Tula like Wolf are simply importers.

I'm going to have to sift through the mess I currently have, dig up the Tulas and see if the have a "Made in ??" on them anywhere. With so many responses of positive results with Tula it has to be either operator error or a bad batch. In other words I some how did a half-assed job seating them or possibly just got a bad batch. I'm leaning more toward the operator error as the cause especially with others mentioning the need to seat them hard. Using a Lee hand tool I pressed the thumb lever until I felt them bottom out. Guess I will do the same then give the lever a bit more pressure after I feel it bottom out and see if it doesn't help.

A few years ago I got a bad batch of Remington SR bench rest. Several of the primer cups were empty of all components, just a shell. Fortunately I caught it on my primer flipper tray before loading any. Sent Remington a few of the empty primer cups, a cardboard sleeve along with some photos. Remington sent me a pack of a thousand along with a very polite, apologetic letter and a catalog. Pretty good deal for me as I only purchased 5, 100 packs and after carefully sifting through the primers I salvaged better than 90%. The salvaged primers shot 100%.

[A pause for the COZ]

I have had a few issues with Wolf and Tula primers. 80% in my two Taurus semi auto pistols. Switched to federal primers in those and I use the wolf and Tula in my revolvers. Never an issue in those.