44-40 cylinder in a 44 Mag Vaquero

[WBH]

Has anyone swapped a 44-40 cylinder vaquero cylinder to a 44 mag vaquero frame? I realize that the bullet diameter of the 44-40 is about .002: smaller than the 44 mag.....but for plinking and shooting .429 bullets in both I should be able to do OK.

I would like to have a SAA to match my 1st gen '73 in 44-40, but the originals are just out of sight in price.

Any thoughts or suggestions?

[MtGun44]

It will probably be safe, but check the throat (front end of the cylinder) inside diameter
on the .44-40. You may be surprised at the size. Also, slug the barrel to see what you
have. Matching the cyl throat to the groove diameter is important for good accy. If the
bullets are significantly undersized by the throat, the best way to try to get this to
work is to use very soft bullets and hot enough loads to bump the undersized bullets
back up to the groove diameter. Tricky, can be done, many have failed, a few have
gotten good results. Hollow based bullets can work in this situation too.

I reamed out my .45 Colt BH throats from .450 to .453" and improved the accuracy
noticably for my .452" groove diameter barrel. So - I can tell you from experience that
.002" undersized throats will hurt your accuracy quite a bit. I was usually getting 4-6"
groups at 25 yds, now they are more like 2-3", not spectacular but much more pleasing.
I have a couple of loads that do about 1.5" for 5 shots at 25 yds, but haven't shot those
enough repititions to be sure they weren't a fluke.

Good luck

Bill

[9.3X62AL]

WBH--

Like you, I have a 1897-vintage '73 in 44-40 I'd like to match up with a wheelgun. I thought about doing a swap cylinder in a Super Blackhawk, but one of the repro SAA Spaghetti Colts in 44-40 is just about the same cost as having the cylinder made up.

Having zero experience with the 44-40 in revolvers, I don't know how well the one cartridge/two gun combo would work out. In 32-20, it doesn't fly worth a damn. Loads that work well in the revo are unspectacular in the rifle--loads that shoot well in the rifle (and are safe in the revolvers) shoot patterns rather than groups. I don't know whether black powder results were better between rifle and revolver, but from the 32-20 I can say with lots of unproductive attempts involving 2 rifles and 4 revolvers that long guns speak English and short guns speak Spanish with smokeless powder on board. Or Russian, maybe.

My advice would be to find a revolver load that works and use it in both, because the rifle results with revo loads are less disappointing than are the rifle-positive loads in the revolvers--which range from dismal to unbelievable. In short--something got lost in translation in the transition from The Holy Black to the smokeless fuel. That has been my experience, in 32-20 at least.

[45 2.1]

I thought about doing a swap cylinder in a Super Blackhawk.

I read a gun magazine article back in the 70s where a guy reamed a SBH 44 mag cylinder to 44-40. The article said he got very good accuracy.

[S.R.Custom]

Ruger typically cuts its barrels to .431". (Or should I say, I've never seen one smaller.) Nominal size of a 44-40 is what, .427"? And I have YET to see a spaghetti repro made with a caliber specific dimensioned barrel in the .44-40. That is to say, I've never seen one with a groove dimension smaller than .430".

So unless you go through the exercise of hogging out the 44-40 cylinder throats to .431" or more, and seating bullets in the 44-40 case of appropriate diameter, accuracy WILL suck. Problem is, if you do that you will frequently find the manufacturer has cut the chamber such that cartridges loaded with fat bullets will not chamber. :roll:

Which is why, despite the fact that I love the 44-40, I've quit fooling with it.

[lastmanout]

When Ruger first introduced the Vaquero model is was offered in 44/40(discontinued), 44 mag,45 colt and 357 mag. My friend had a 44/40. The barrel was a Ruger standard .44 bore and twist (.430-+) but the cylinder throats where definately .427. It shot Jacketed .427 Remington bullets fine but was terrible with cast lead. the SASS boys where on to this early and a few gunsmiths would ream the cylinder to match the barrel. Accuracy improved immediately, matching IMHO the .44 mag and 44 special. The fragile brass can be a pain to reload, but I had been getting "luckier". I never had a pistol, but have a Uberti '73 rifle and a Marlin Cowboy in 44/40. They both shoot well. The Marlin is exceptional- I have some 1"five shot groups hanging on the wall shot at 50 Yards-open sights. YAhoo. :Fire:

[Lloyd Smale]

One of the gun smiths i deal with donated to me a 4440 cylinder for my 4 5/8s super and i had the throats opened to 4305 on it and it dropped right in and the guns a tack driver with that cylinder in it. If anything it actually shoots better then the mag cylinder. I size bullets to 430 for it.

[Four Fingers of Death]

Getting a spare cylinder would be expensive. I'd buy some 44Special Brass and pocket the rest. If you want it for authencity's sake, the Ruger isn't going to cut it, I'd just go to a clone. I have a rifle (1866 Uberti) and a Colt clone (NIB Armi San Marco picked up recently)in 44/40, so I'm not against the calibre, but buying a spare cylinder is one hell of a way to do it.

[9.3X62AL]

In my case, the conversion has some chance of success. The current '73 has grooves @ .429", and its chamber will swallow cartridges with .431" boolits seated. That leaves only 2 issues--whether (or not) the revolver chamber will swallow such a cartridge--and whether the same loading will work well in both platforms. My thought were along the lines of 45-2.1's text, and I think I recall that same article.

I've set the project aside for the present time, and may not re-visit the idea again. I got lucky enough to have 2 revolvers in 32-20 that shoot the same load and boolit accurately, and that is more good fortune than one 32-20 short gun owner probably deserves. It's not like there is a shortage of guns or their related projects around here already.

[lathesmith]

It looks like to me that finding a spare Ruger cylinder at a reasonable price would be the main problem here, since Ruger won't sell you one. Either a 357, 41, or 44 could easily be re-chambered to 44-40, and you should be able to match your barrel this way.
lathesmith

[lastmanout]

If the Original Vaquero is acceptable to your eyes and hands, I would look for a Ruger 44/40, sometimes they go cheap. 44/40 is not a real popular item. The clones can be real crap and I have seen too many with real problems at the cowboy shoots . The United States Patent Firearms Compnay makes GREAT stuff, and could be cheaper in the long run. Taking working firearms, adding parts and labor, ending up with an item worth less than the original is not good logic. I know, because I have done it a few times:roll:... but no more.:Fire:

[Lloyd Smale]

Check with the linebaughs, bowen, clements, harton ect I went looking a year ago and came up with two and got them for free but the people i got them from owed me favors. 2dogs has the other one so dont bother asking but some of those 4440 rugers were used in conversion projects and cylinders can be found. Like i said it dropped right in my gun and with a little throat opening is a very accurate shooter. It really doesnt do anything a 44 special wont but its still cool to have a convertable 44mag 4440. Makes a good combo to to pair up with a lever gun. I still havent killed anything with the 4440 cylinder but maybe next year. I was shooting the 225 swcgc lyman out of it with 10 grains of herco and it shot into an inch and that load has plenty of snort for whitetail.

[WBH]

Great idea on contacting the "super" six-shooter boys for their "spare" take-off cylinders. Just maybe one has a 44-40 in the shop to sell.

I already shoot the light 44 spc loads in the 44 mag. I am just looking for another project to pair up with the '73.

I also have a 32-20 original '73.........but have no interest in getting a revolver to go with that. Unless, of course, I find a "cheap" old SAA at the gun shows.

[Four Fingers of Death]

You could remove the cylinder and send the gun to Ruger to 'get it going' :) Then rechamber the most appropriate one. A second hand 44/40 would be easier. or a convertible and then sell your one.

I remember a site I looked at that customised ruger and the guy (the son from memory) said they had a huge stock of removed cylinders that they didn't use as they fitted new cylinders. I would have th elink, but it would be buried along with hundreds of other sites that have caught my eye over the past few years.

[WBH]

It's getting complicated. Maybe I'll just sellthe Vaquero.........it's mint as new. And,then buy a 44-40. I have other 44 Mags so it won'y be a big loss. BUT, it is a pretty gun. 2 sets of grips (one is imitation checkered bone), stainless, etc. Maybe I'll take it to a show to trade. That would make life much easier.

[Lloyd Smale]

I believe your only bet is a 41 mag cyl. The 357 cylinders are shorter and the 44 mag cylinders wont clean up to 4440. At least thats what i was told. 41 mag stainless cylinders are going to be tough to find. Especially flutted ones.
It looks like to me that finding a spare Ruger cylinder at a reasonable price would be the main problem here, since Ruger won't sell you one. Either a 357, 41, or 44 could easily be re-chambered to 44-40, and you should be able to match your barrel this way.
lathesmith

[EDK]

Dunns Sporting Goods in Pevely MO has had a blue/cch 44/40 Vaquero loitering in the display case for a long time; I think its 4 5/8, but don't remember.

Ruger did some Supers in dual cylinder 44 magnum and 44/40. Hamilton Bowen does some explaining in his book and web site on reaming 44/40 out to .430 throat diameter for Ruger barrels. You could watch the internet for another 44 magnum cylinder and have Bowen (or the gunsmith of your choice) ream and fit it.

Just for grins, what barrel length is your gun? Bisley or XR3-red grip frame? And how much do you want out of it? Subtlety isn't one of my weaknesses...and I actually have some money for a change!

:redneck: :cbpour: :Fire:

[WBH]

It is a Red Grip, polished stainless, 5 1/2" barrel, as new in the box with papers, lock, checkered faux ivory grips.

I'll probably keep it, on second thought, (shipping from dealer to dealer out of state only makes the dealers and the shippers money), and trade an Italian .45LC I have to get a 44-40 SAA clone.

I have spent way too much $$$ in the past creating something I want, only to have it worth less than half of what I have into it.

Even if I get a .41 Mag cylinder and have it reamed to the Ruger barrel, it won't be interchangable ammo (bullet sizing) to shoot in my '73.

It was just a thought............got way to complicated.

But thanks for all the input.