Martini Cadet guru needed

[Thundermaker]

I just got a pretty good deal on a cadet action. It's just an action, so I'm trying to decide what caliber to put it in. I was thinking .41 mag or 22 hornet. However, it occurs to me that there is a question that needs to be answered before I can do anything. How can I tell if my action is a centerfire or rimfire?

Also, can anyone recommend me a gunsmith? I know a lot of good smiths, but none who know these actions.

[Reg]

If you have just the action only, close the breech block and just look in the front. If the firing pin is centered, you have the center fire action ( 310 ), if off set, it's the rimfire.
You might want to reconsider that .41 Mag. When folks first started playing with these little actions in the late 50's many were converted to the .44 Mag. The barrel extension is only 3/4" on these and did not support the pressures that the .44 produced and would swell under the upper loads. My bet is you would have the same problem here.
Best to keep them for the smaller calibers. .218 Bee, the Hornet, 25-20. 222 Rimed 32-20 etc. Some were redone in the .32 Winchester Special and while they were more than safe, that big of a cartridge just beat the heck out of the shooter with severe recoil. You like pain you will really like that number. I know, I had 2.
Many were also rebored to the .357 Mag and they worked very well many also into the .357 Max and these also seem to work out well.
They are a great little action and make into really neat little rifles.

[Stephen Cohen]

Reg hit it on the head in all regards. I just took delivery of a Martini I had done in 357 Maximum. Now I want one in 30 cal based on Maximum shell.

[Goatwhiskers]

Reg hit all the important points squarely. IMHO the Max is about the most that should be put in the Cadet action, and let me tell you it's a blast. Mine sports an original barrel bored out and given a 1 in 16" twist, very accurate. The traditional varmint calibers such as the Bee, Hornet and the like make a perfect light weight rifle. GW

[Crank]

Thundermaker,
+1 for Reg. I have owned several over the years and the one I have currently is in .256 Win Mag. It isn't limited to stubby little 60gr. pills and loves 75gr. spitzers. Brass is easy enough to form and there are lots of great barrels that could be a donor. A .357Mag/Max is also another great choice. The other calibers mentioned are great, but the novelty of the rifle coupled with a novel caliber makes it that much more fun. One thing that isn't so much a warning, but rather a recommendation, is to bush the firing pin and reduce the tip size a bit for the higher pressure stuff. Mine was originally a .310 Greener, I forgot to bush it when I rebarreled and chambered it, so once in a while the primer has enough room to bind the action, I need to put that on the to-do list before I go play with it again. The key to making the choice will not be limited by the strength of the action itself, but as mentioned, what will fit and how much recoil you are willing to stand. The triggers on the Cadet are not the best, but with some careful work they will clean up nicely.

As for a smith, as these little guys have slowly disappeared from the mainstream over the last few decades, your best bet is to find those that have been in the field 25+ years, that way you stand a better chance of finding someone that has prior experience. That isn't to say there isn't a younger guy that has experience, but unless they advertise the fact, the pickings will be slim. Other than cutting the extractor relief cuts, any smith that knows how to cut threads, chamber and headspace should be able to handle the job. Triggers might raise an eyebrow to some, but the simple fact is, that it's a sear and the principals remain the same. Replacement wood is readily available in whatever grade your budget allows. Scoping is best handled with blocks mounted to the barrel, I have seen side mounts, but they look awkward and aren't any better.
My two cents worth.

Mark

[John Taylor]

The 357 Max can be a problem, it's long strait sides make it hart to get in and out of the chamber. The top of the breach block needs to be relieved in some cases. A cartridge with a taper and bottle neck will work best. Even the 22 mag has a problem ejecting, not that it hits anything but the long strait case can not be thrown clear with the standard extractor.

[Bad Ass Wallace]

There is enough metal in the action to recut the barrel thread to the same as a Winchester 92. This eliminates to old problem of the barrel shank being too thin. I have newly rebarrellid a Cadet to 25/35 Win by this method

[wch]

I have one in 7-30 Waters, shoots well, but I keep the loads mild.

[Thundermaker]

I'm thinkinking about .357 herett. Lots of gator hunters use it around here. .218 bee seems a likely candidate. I'd use a 1:7 twist barrel to handle the 60 grain RN and 75 grain a-max bullets that slay hogs so well. That'll give me something to handle bobcats to buck deer and everything in between. I can do the bushing myself on a drill press. The only thing I can't do is thread a barrel, since I don't have a lathe. I'll go woth some manner of peep sight or low-powered scope.

It's funny, I went to a gun auction last month and saw a cadet done in .219 donaldson wasp. It was a beautiful gun, fitted with a unertl scope. I thought to myself, "I'll never be able to afford one of these". I thought no more of it. One month later, this action falls in my lap. Funny how life works sometimes.

[Jeff Michel]

.30 Reece

[Thundermaker]

.30 reece looks a lot like a rimmed 300 whisper.

[kopperl]

You folks are right about the 32 Winchester. They KICK! Mine became a K Hornet. Sweet little rifle.

[kopperl]

Forgot to say mine was converted by the gunsmith at Star arms in Stevensville, Texas. Nice job at a reasonable price.

[seaboltm]

The 357 Max can be a problem, it's long strait sides make it hart to get in and out of the chamber. The top of the breach block needs to be relieved in some cases. A cartridge with a taper and bottle neck will work best. Even the 22 mag has a problem ejecting, not that it hits anything but the long strait case can not be thrown clear with the standard extractor.

Found a website that addressed this issue in the cadets, and you are right. The maximum is a problem with traditional pistol bullets, but this cat was using .358 rifle bullets, spire point, so he had some built in taper if you will, in the projectile. He claimed it ejected fine.

[Thundermaker]

The more I look at it, the more I like that .256 win mag. It looks like just the ticket in terms of versatility, brass availability, and ease of reloading.

[heathydee]

I have three Cadets.
One in 357 Magnum necked down to .30 . It manages to push a 150 gn CBE boolit to about 1650 fps with about 1.5 moa accuracy .
The second is 357 Maximum necked down to .30 . It can get over 1900 fps with the same boolit .
The last is an unaltered original in .310 Greener Rook .

[Thundermaker]

That's a neat concept healthydee. I have to say, I've never seen a cartridge with as many names as the .310. .310 cadet, .310 rook, .310 greener, .310 greener rook, .310 trainer. I'm sure there are others.

[Jeff Michel]

Basically as .357 necked and shortened to 1.165. I use .38 Special and they work great. There was a thread a while back describing the 30 Badger, ostensibly the same thing, based on the .38 Special case. That thread sold me on the concept, Carson Reece sold me the dies and MGM sold me the (carbine) barrel. Modest charge of Herco with a Mihec 311410 GC is clocking at 1500. If I was rebarreling a cadet and couldn't find the original barrel, this would be my next choice.



.30 reece looks a lot like a rimmed 300 whisper.

[Goatwhiskers]

Re: what John said. I found with mine that the RD359175 boolit needed to be seated deeper in the case than the RD359190 which is a longer boolit. Reason is the nose curvature, the lighter boolit has a fatter nose and caused interference in chambering. I don't have any trouble chambering or ejecting either round, did not modify the block in any way. I just hold the lever down and shove 'er in there, normal for a Martini. Just my experience. GW

[Boz330]

Vic Samuels is an excellent Martini Smith. He has done 2 for me in 357 and 7MM Waters, both are great rifles.

Bob

[Janoosh]

+1 John Taylor....I have a 22 mag and a 357 mag cadet that both have problems extracting and ejecting those rounds. I have an action that I'd like to be 25 hornet....

[TCLouis]

30X357 Max as provided by Jim Rock

[windy]

mine's a 32 special, but for deer/coyote loads i just load it to 32-40 specs; it does fine with 28 grains of 3031 behind a 170gr hornady flatnose, and recoil is pretty mild. i have an arthritic shoulder, so no full-deck 32 special loads for me. most of my shooting is plinker/small game loads; i have trail boss loads for the 100gr nambu pistol bullets (copper clad) and tb and 4759 loads for the two boolits i cast; a 32359 120gr and a 120gr cadet boolit from cbe in oz. it took me awhile to discover that i had to shoot a fine bead with the little critter; everything shot high out past 50 yards using a full bead, and the deer loads were nearly off the top of the paper at 100 with the rear sight still on zero. since i got this little carbine 3 months or so ago, the rest of my arsenal'sbeen gathering dust--this is one fun firearm, even with my 68 yr-old eyes. think i'll be packin' it come deer season.
mind yer topknots! windy

[cwheel]

Crank issued a warning about the firing pin on these. I've owned one for more than 40 years in .357, and he is right. Without bushing the bolt with a smaller firing pin, or welding the bolt hole with a smaller pin, the action will lock up on higher pressure rounds punching a hole in the primer. We have used ours for load developing on 38/.357 rounds and found it was fine with the 38's, about half the time on hot .357's it would punch the primer and lock up the action. I have a tig welder, welded up the bolt face, drilled smaller and turned down the firing pin, problem solved. Barrel in mine is a original .310 rebored and chambered to .357. I think someone re-barreling to 30:30 or 32 Winchester is pressing it some, barrel thickness at the chamber is getting thin and I don't think the action was intended for a round that long. That Martini turned out to be money well spent, a good buy.
Chris