Vertical stringing in an Encore. Help solve my problem

[wlc]

I'm relatively new to the Encore platform, but just got everything together to shoot my new 357 max barrel. Worked up the load I wanted, rested on an adjustable sandbag rest I made in the shop. Horizontal dispersal is less than 3/4 inch at 50 yards. Vertical spread approaching 5 inches. I know I'm not that bad a shot.... What causes vertical stringing in an Encore? Solutions??? Thanks!!!

[pkie44]

Shape and angle of the Buttstock requires a consistent hold. Placement of forend on rest also will affect horizontal stringing. Be sure you are consistent on both.

[Nobade]

I find all my guns with two piece stocks do that off a rest if I try to shoot them like a bolt gun. I finally learned to hold the rifle in my hand and rest the hand on the front rest. The vertical went away and I have been doing it like that ever since.

-Nobade

[uscra112]

If your headspace is too tight, the gun won't close and lock up the same each time. Or your boolit may be seated so far out that it's jamming into the lands, which does the same thing. If changing your hold doesn't do it, or doesn't do enough, that's the next place I'd look.

[Iowa Fox]

If your headspace is too tight, the gun won't close and lock up the same each time. Or your boolit may be seated so far out that it's jamming into the lands, which does the same thing. If changing your hold doesn't do it, or doesn't do enough, that's the next place I'd look.

Headspace is really fussy on the Contenders and Encores. Also made sure the end of the barrel does not touch the firing pin breech block when closed. I have a couple barrels that are tight (touch) on a particular frame and fine on another. Just hold it up to a light with the barrel closed or use a feeler gage to check clearance.

[35 shooter]

I keep reading about resting the beak open actions on the hand on the front rest so i've got to try that one too. Other than that though with my encore i found two sweet spots for the front rest. One is 4 to 5" back from the end of fore end and the other spot is 1 to 2" in front of the receiver on the front bag. Then i try to be very careful to put no downward pressure with my cheek or shoulder on the rifle when rested on the bags, or at least no more than neccessary. I had to experiment a bit with the encore.

[Goatwhiskers]

Unless a SS rifle has a forend support that keeps the wood away from the barrel you will have vertical stringing when resting the forend on a rest. This is why supporting the rifle at or very close to the front of the receiver is usually best. Actually I haven't tried putting my hand in between the rest and forend in all these years, but will when all this rain passes and I can go outside to shoot again.

[quilbilly]

Several of my T/C barrels have done that. One factor was shooting loads that heated the barrel rather quickly so one I backed off on the loads, problem started to go away.

[Pinsnscrews]

All the information your going to want regarding Contender and Encore tuning can be found at http://www.bellmtcs.com

Everything from proper headspacing, issues with stock TC barrel throats, springs, trigger tuning, etc.

[BCRider]

I got away from the issue by opening up the barrel channel a little and then using two leather washers as makeshift pillar bedding points. The issue was gone when I shot it the first time after this fix. I think it has something to do with the multiple contact points and heating when the wood is just screwed tight to the barrel.

[montana_charlie]

Unless a SS rifle has a forend support that keeps the wood away from the barrel you will have vertical stringing when resting the forend on a rest.

Many rest the barrel or their SS rifle directly on the support, like this, and still avoid vertical stringing.

http://catshootingsticks.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/8-269x269.jpg

[Parson]

I don't think this is your problem but too much pressure can flex the lockup and cause vertical. I have an Encore in 25-06 Imp. That can crack four grand with 90 gr. Blitz-kings but with about 6 in. Of vertical. Slow it down to about 3600 and it's a tack driver

[wlc]

I know (or strongly suspect) its not a barrel heating problem. I'm shooting 250gr boolits at +-1050fps with American Select powder through a suppressor. It strings vertical with or without the suppressor. The barrel is not even warm after firing five shots about as fast as I can load, shoot, reload, and fire again. I think I'll try changing the way I rest it and see if that helps. The load could be a good one. +-1/2-3/4 inch horizontal difference, but 4-6 inch vertical. What about resting it directly on the barrel??? Doesn't sound "kosher" to me, but..... I'll first try resting it as close to the receiver as I can and work out from there. Any other suggestions?? Could/would headspace cause it?? Like I said, I'm new to the Encore platform.

[Nobade]

Often you will find rifles like that shoot better offhand than they do from a rest. Then you know it is the hold.

-Nobade

[FLHTC]

If you're shooting a 357 Max, that headspaces on the rim so you can rule that issue out. I'd be willing to bet that it's barrel harmonics. Shoot it while resting it under the frame. I use my left hand to hold the stock comb and rest my cheek on my hand. That way it's easier to steady the gun with so much barrel hanging out over the pivot point. I also shoot it initially without a forend to see how it shoots. Forend screws are never torqued the same way twice so that can effect stringing and put you on a hunt for a problem you're causing.

[bigted]

so try this with your rifle ...

- get your PLASTIC hammer or inertia bullet puller.
- take your rifle ...{which ever rifle you have in mind}... and grab hold of the wrist of the butt stock and allow the rifle to hang down in a neutral position where it will just hang natural with only your hand holding the rifle at the wrist in the same fashion you do when shooting it.
- now take your PLASTIC hammer and begin tapping the barrel about 6 inch's in front of the hinge. do this WITH the forend attached.
- note ... with every inch that you move forward ... the amount of vibration that you feel in your holding hand.
- now take note of the place ...{sometimes 2 or 3}... that there seems to be no vibration felt with the tap on the barrel.
- this will be the spot to rest your rifle on ... as Charlie above suggests ... this is called a "vibration NODE".
- these NODEs are set up when all the machining is done and after the barrel is mounted on the rifle.

you will note that the top BPCR shots NEVER never fire their rifles while resting on the wood stock. the reason for this is partly because of the changing amount of water in the air ... the ever changing way the forfend is impacting the barrel ... the amounts of pressure thrown [inadvertently] on the rifle when sighted with a check weld ... the changing [exact] spot the rifle is rested after each shot.

these all effect the vertical string ... also another thing that dramatically effects the vertical is the ignition effect ... ignition is effected with a couple variables ... primers, powder type, powder charge, powder position in the case shot to shot, hammer fall consistency so on and so on. there are many things to consider but my first problem solving is always in the rest spot on the BARREL for consistent hold and pressure on the rifle as well as the node position ... I put a piece of scotch tape on the NODE that creates NO vibration ... this allows me to position the BARREL on the same contact point with each shot ... again as Charlie above mentions ... so each shot is the same with a rifle I want the best accuracy out of on paper.

good luck on your quest.

[wlc]

Thanks for all the tips. Next shooting day I will be trying them. Bigted, Thanks. I'll report back on my "findings".

[country gent]

Alot is the amount of down put on the frame barrel joint not being consistent. Getting a little higher of the bench may help some allowing a more upright position and less down force on the rifle. Holding the forend and using the front rest to support the hand will help also, but be sure there is only contact with padded areas on the hand. The english with the big double rifles found that point of impact wasnt the same between a bench and hand held so they came up with the shooting post, a 6x6 or 8x8 with a padded top to rest support the back of the off hand with. this allowed for several benifits. It didnt flex the rifle at the joint near as bad, It steady a good shooter to zero the rifle, and it allowed for better managment of recoil by the shooter ( imagine firing the big stopping rifles daily to zero regulate them from a bench) A solid bench and upright position rifle being pulled straight back into the shoulder with very light cheek pressure. Otherwise the post mentioned above.

[wlc]

Took bigteds and others suggestions. Found the "sweet spot" on the forearm, tried to be more consistent in my hold, not put much if any down pressure on the rig, etc. and got decent groups instead of the stringing. Not great groups, but I imagine the load needs tweaking a bit. THANKS!!!!!!!!

[selmerfan]

One question not asked, or something I missed while skimming - is this a rifle setup or pistol setup? If it's a pistol, I'd get the front bag close to the frame, then have consistent hold. Actually, same goes for the rifle, but it's easy to get vertical stringing with a pistol barrel if your grip and follow through is inconsistent because the barrel "flip" changes if your hold and follow through changes. It's actually MORE noticeable with heavy bullets and slow loads - such as you describe using.

[wlc]

Selmerfan, it is a 16.5 inch barreled carbine/rifle.

[quilbilly]

I don't think this is your problem but too much pressure can flex the lockup and cause vertical. I have an Encore in 25-06 Imp. That can crack four grand with 90 gr. Blitz-kings but with about 6 in. Of vertical. Slow it down to about 3600 and it's a tack driver
I have a 9mm TC carbine that did the same when the MV was 1350+fps. The first shot would be dead on at 50 yards then a quick second would be 3-4" high then the third would be 8" high but if I waited a minute or two between shots, all would be dead on. When I dropped the MV to 1150-1200, the problem disappeared.

[selmerfan]

I'd try resting it as close to the frame as possible and see what happens.

[wlc]

Just an update on my "problem". I think I have it figured out. Got rid of the sandbag type rest and rested both the front and rear on old rolled up bath towels. I did rest the front where most of the weight was at the hinge area. No stringing and good groups. Thanks for all the tips.

[35 shooter]

lol i've been shooting mine as i described before and doing fine(so i thought). I was getting very good groups all along, but every once in a while i'd have one flyer. Since it was only every so often i thought it was lube purging. Anyway i rested it about 3 or 4" in front of reciever, shot another 4 or 5 groups....perfect. Even if i leaned on it a bit it was stable.
Moral of all that is i found a better spot to rest mine at too. And i found out my lube isn't purging to boot. Guess you never stop learning things in this sport. The only thing i've changed lately was sizing to .360 rather than .359" so maybe that added a bit of pressure on the bbl. and changed my rest point? Anyway it's all back to normal now.