How Much Oversized Boolits?

[Laredo]

How much can a rifle or pistol be oversized to groove diameters and still get accuracy with no lead-ing?

[Mk42gunner]

As long as it is larger than the bore, but small enough to allow the neck of the cartridge room to expand in the chamber when fired.

For example, I mostly use .311" diameter boolits in my .30 caliber rifles (nominal .308" groove diameter). If that doesn't work to my satisfaction, then I try different sizing diameters.

Robert

[Laredo]

Thanks Robert.
At what point does the excess lead from the oversized bullet start to effect the bullet base and have the same effect as a bad barrel crown?
It seems like it would go to the rear of the boolit, would it not?
This question would relate to pistol boolits for me since I gas check, size and paper wrap my rifle boolits. But I guess if I had a .308 grooves and sized to say .310 or larger it could possibly do the same in a rifle. ????

[Iowa Fox]

Throat fit is everything.

[Walter Laich]

I'll address how I do my pistols:
stug the barrel--it will tell you exactly what your diameter is
I go .001 to .002 over that diameter and no leading, good accuracy.
I'm doing cowboy (light) loads with mine.
this for .32, .38, .45 ACP and .45 Colt
I am using lube on bare lead bullets as well as powder coated bullets. Same results

[MtGun44]

As long as it will chamber, you should be good. Oversized has never been a source
of leading in my experience. Undersized is a BIG cause of leading.

Bill

[runfiverun]

you do have to have a place for the displaced lead to go.
the boolit either has to get longer or the excess lead is pushed towards the back of the boolit.
the lube grooves do help with displacement but at some point you distort the boolit causing issues in the open air.
you know like some of the lead flinging off and stuff.

[oldfart1956]

As long as it will chamber, you should be good. Oversized has never been a source
of leading in my experience. Undersized is a BIG cause of leading.

Bill MtGun got that right. As an example while working on loads for an 1884 trapdoor I took the boolit size up to .465 in a .461/.462 barrel. The boolits were a slip fit in a fired case and chambered without issue. Firing produced no more leading and in the same place as always. My trapdoor has no leade/taper going into the rifling....so it has minor leading issues there. Softer lead helps. I'd imagine by the time the boolit exited it was a smidge longer than when packaged. :) Audie...the Oldfart..

[Laredo]

Thanks for the replies guys.
I was not only thinking about lead-ing but also accuracy.

One of the reasons I ask this is I don't have a sizer for .258" nor .265/6.5" but I have moulds for those rifles. I prefer Lee's push through sizer, however Lee doesn't not make one for any .25 cal. or 6.5. So I thought about loading the bullets in belled mouth cases and purchasing some of Redding's Form and Trim dies for these caliber cartridges as the dies are cut to outside SAAMI spec. chamber dimensions. These dies should size the boolits down enough to chamber the case. The only problem is installing the gas checks.
I will have to figure something out for that.
I have a 250 Sav. and 6.5 Svede itching for some cast lead.

As far as pistol cast lead, I tried some non-sized Lyman BOOLITS yesterday. The only thing I did to those was run the cases through Lee's Carbide Tapered crimp die. Again this ensured clambering the round. That is except for the gooey Lee Alox that built up on the case mouth during boolit seating and wouldn't let the cartridge chamber properly. Live and learn and wipe clean. Once I did that the accuracy was great!

Oh, by the way I tried calling Lee Precision to see about some custom builds and the phone is constantly busy. I emailed them and get a automated reply instantly saying they are swamped with work.

Any more thoughts on my idea?

[slumlord44]

Looking for bullets to use in my .25 Stevens Rimfire with .27 nail gun loads for power. Can I safely use .258 bullets with the .251 bore in the .25 Stevens?

[MtGun44]

If you mean the Lee Factory Crimp Die - watch out for that die sizing down the boolits in
the case. We have had a number of members with serious leading issues that were finally
traced to the FCD sizing down their previously correctly sized boolits while in the
cases.

Bill

[Laredo]

My apologies MtGun44,
I'm probably being a little confusing since I have referred to two different methods of sizing both my straight wall pistol boolits AND rifle boolits. I am trying to improvise a way to size my .25" & .26" rifle boolits so the cases will chamber (and the boolits shoot accurately) until I can get Lee to make some custom sizing dies for me. Again installing the gas checks for these would be the problem.

The Lee Factory Crimp Die is for rifle cartridges and uses a collet set up to "squash" the case mouth against or in to the bullet. It is some what similar in design as their Lee Collet Dies ....sort of.

In my last post I was referring to The Lee Carbide Factory Crimp Die for straight wall pistols (my error in naming) which uses an entirely different set up. It has a carbide ring at the base that sizes the case to outside SAAMI specs. Then has a adjustable internal tapered die-ring to perform the "tapered" crimp.
I believe the only way one could (over) under-size their boolits with this die would be just through carelessness since the crimping die can be totally backed out to not even touch the case mouth. In this case only the carbide sizing ring would contact the brass and size it to insure chambering.

Any ideas for a improvised gas check installer?

[6bg6ga]

As long as it will chamber, you should be good. Oversized has never been a source
of leading in my experience. Undersized is a BIG cause of leading.

Bill

I will agree also. Undersized leaded for me. Sized correctly or oversized and I had no leading.

[runfiverun]

just p.m. buck shot.
he will make you a correct sized sizer and punch that is better than lee's.
give him a diameter and you'll get that diameter.
you can then seat your gas checks in these dies too.

as far as the alox being an issue goes you are using too much.
cut the alox in half with some mineral spirits.
use about 1/3 the amount you think you need.
heat both the boolits and the alox mix before application.
heat lube dry size/check heat lube dry....done.
a fine gold colored wash is all you need.

[MtGun44]

Yes - Lee has two products that they call Factory Crimp Dies - which use totally unrelated
technologies. Rifle uses collet to crimp and is a great device. Pistol version is IMO totally
useless, offering the opportunity to ruin your carefully crafted ammo by smashing the
bullet/boolit inside the case, but some folks love it. This discussion has been beaten to
death, just be advised that the pistol die has caused problems for many - so be aware
if you seem to mysteriously have undersized boolits.

It is the carbide ring that does the mischief. Some brass, with some boolits and some
pistol FCDs - ruin the ammo. IMO if you size the brass in a normal full length sizer,
and seat a normal boolit, the round should chamber. If not - there is a problem with
the brass, die, boolit or chamber dimensions that smashing it with a carbide ring
does not properly address.

Bill

[DougGuy]

Lee does have a bunch of uncatalogued collet style custom factory crimp dies, they have them for .41 magnum, .44 magnum, and .45 colt pistol calibers. They have 4 fingers in them and work same way as the collet style rifle dies.

http://leeprecision.com/custom-factory-crimp-die-overruns/

[slumlord44]

Anyone on my question?

[rhead]

Accuracy will also improve as size increases. In my experience at least, I have never experience a decrease in accuracy with a Boolit that will chamber easily and release cleanly. Sometimes getting a Boolit up to that size is not worth the trouble. Make a dummy round with the boolits at "as cast" diameter and see if they will chamber. Also check out the sticky on chamber casting. find out what size you need.