Gun life expectancy

[silverado]

I have browsed the Web quite a bit like most of you guys seeing what others have to say about their guns. I have noticed a lot of posts by people claiming how they have 1 or 2 thousand rounds thru their gun and how great it is.... I have at least 1k through my gp100 and plan on many many more. Isn't 2k not that many rounds in the grand scheme of things? Like saying a car has 10k miles so it must last forever...

[Ubet]

For a quality built gun 2k rounds is just getting broken in. Should have a long life of use with it.

[btroj]

I am sure there are more than a few here with 50 K or so on a single firearm.

One or two thousand is just broken in in most cases.

[WallyM3]

Typically, a Garand or an M1A is considered a candidate for a rebarrel @5,000 rounds. This is to keep it in top match condition, admittedly, but the action and mechanism can take much more than that.

Used to be guns were over-engineered.

I've wondered how many rounds have been through the last remaining M1919s.

[Love Life]

I know I have shot over 12,000 rds put through my Model 28. I bought it used and it was made in 1972 so it who knows how many rds it really has through it.

[WallyM3]

S&W 27/28 is a special case, so that's not fair! (LOL)

[silverado]

My favorite guy for dealing man toys was explaining to a customer that kimber pistols are broken in at around 4500 rounds. What say you guys to this?

[imashooter2]

I bought my 625 used and I have personally put over 30,000 through it. Compared to a lot of folks, that's not much. Compared to a lot of others, it is an outrageous number. It is all a matter of perspective, but I would wager that reloaders shoot far more than the average shooter and casters shoot more than the average reloader.

[silverado]

Also thanks for input... I spent a summer with a gun collecting uncle, joined the navy only to move to guam, then FINALLY move to virginia to live out my uncles teachings.... (unfortunately after marriage) so I am a little behind the power curve.

[waksupi]

I have guns over 100 years old, that I know I have run my share of rounds through, and suspect previous owners did. No signs of being worn out, just broke in and functioning perfectly. Don't hot rod, and take care of them, they will last for generations.

[silverado]

I use my gp100 for testing before I run a load through my j frame... I stay within published load data and keep things safe. I will say a 158 grain boolit with 16 grains of w296 has a little bit of recoil...

[BruceB]

We did extensive Bullseye match shooting for many years.

Our pair of S&W Model 52-1 .38 Special autoloaders have fired a combined total of well-over 150.000 rounds.... I know this because I went back through my old loading records. I loaded 140,000 or so .38s with my own cast wadcutters, and we also fired thousands of factory-loaded .38s in various important matches.

The pistols show only some finish wear on the grip frames, and continue to work perfectly and shoot with great accuracy. There is no end in sight, apparently.

[silverado]

So as of right now cast boolits is the only forum where any info MAY be considered valid.... I have noticed a bunch of air soft warriors that know every thing... at work we know a guy who shoots 40 mm for competition for his glock that is so custom it's not made by glock anymore....

[imashooter2]

My favorite guy for dealing man toys was explaining to a customer that kimber pistols are broken in at around 4500 rounds. What say you guys to this?

I have a Stainless Target II that was getting 4 - 5,000 a year shooting steel before I took to USPSA revolver in 2007. I still put at least 2K a year through it getting ready for the PSA Shootout. I bought the gun in 2002. The pistol is still tight and I expect it will run at this pace the rest of my life.

[silverado]

I have a Stainless Target II that was getting 4 - 5,000 a year shooting steel before I took to USPSA revolver in 2007. I still put at least 2K a year through it getting ready for the PSA Shootout. I bought the gun in 2002. The pistol is still tight and I expect it will run at this pace the rest of my life.

That is good to know.... my favorite lgs has employees that talk people out of laser sights and other things that don't do a bit of good.... I know lou has talked me out of stuff before that's why I always go to him...can't ask for a better gun shop and that place is ALWAYS my #1 source, just wish they had lyman molds

[Love Life]

My favorite guy for dealing man toys was explaining to a customer that kimber pistols are broken in at around 4500 rounds. What say you guys to this?

Sounds like somebody wants to sell you 4,500 rds.

[WallyM3]

Although the thought occurs to me that I wouldn't feel good about shooting 10,000 .357 Magnums through a Model 13.

All of this depends upon the gun.

[Bullshop]

I have a couple 1884 Trap Doors that have enough life left to keep doing what they were meant to do and do it at quite some distance.

[WallyM3]

I was just thinking about trap guns.

Oi!

[geargnasher]

If you take care of the gun, meaning proper lubrication and no "hot" loads, you aren't likely to wear any of them out using cast boolits. With proper maintenance and lubrication and no hot-rodding, a car engine will run many billions of cycles per cylinder before it wears out. The worst you might see in your guns is with extremely high-pressure loadings in rifles that will erode the throats (same as with jacketed bullets), with muzzle-loaders that get worn 'slick' from the patches, and some typical wear patterns in revolvers from super-duper-whopper-magnum-level loadings.

I'm pretty certain that a stainless-steel GP-100 is THE most durable handgun ever made for normal use, period. For some entertainment, read up on the torture-tests that Ruger put them through.

Gear

[1Shirt]

I believe it is possible to shoot out a bbl with jacketed bullets and hot loads fairly quickly, however, bbls are replaceable if actions have not been stressed or weakened.
I also have a couple of rifles well over 100 years, old, and still going strong, with no reason to not go another hundred with proper loads. I am not sure that you can ever shoot out a bbl with cast bullets at accepted cast loadings. Accordingly, with cast loadings, rifles should last just about indefinitely (what ever that may be)!
Probably the same with handguns, but IMO for sure with rifles.
1Shirt!

[silverado]

If you take care of the gun, meaning proper lubrication and no "hot" loads, you aren't likely to wear any of them out using cast boolits. With proper maintenance and lubrication and no hot-rodding, a car engine will run many billions of cycles per cylinder before it wears out. The worst you might see in your guns is with extremely high-pressure loadings in rifles that will erode the throats (same as with jacketed bullets), with muzzle-loaders that get worn 'slick' from the patches, and some typical wear patterns in revolvers from super-duper-whopper-magnum-level loadings.

I'm pretty certain that a stainless-steel GP-100 is THE most durable handgun ever made for normal use, period. For some entertainment, read up on the torture-tests that Ruger put them through.

Gear

I Will take UR word for it...

[KYShooter73]

For my most fired weapons, I have: Romanian AK - 5000 rds, Oly AR - 4000-5000, and M&P Pro 9mm at about 3000. They are broken in to the point I think they are very reliable. Heck, the paint on the recoil spring on the M&P isn't even worn off yet. I expect I'm probably half way to getting new springs, maybe 1/3 of the way to any significant part. I've had the AK 10 years, The Oly 10 years and I don't use it anymore, and the M&P a little over a year.

I have worn out a barrel in 500 rounds, but was experimenting and hot rodding.

[Love Life]

If you take care of the gun, meaning proper lubrication and no "hot" loads, you aren't likely to wear any of them out using cast boolits. With proper maintenance and lubrication and no hot-rodding, a car engine will run many billions of cycles per cylinder before it wears out. The worst you might see in your guns is with extremely high-pressure loadings in rifles that will erode the throats (same as with jacketed bullets), with muzzle-loaders that get worn 'slick' from the patches, and some typical wear patterns in revolvers from super-duper-whopper-magnum-level loadings.

I'm pretty certain that a stainless-steel GP-100 is THE most durable handgun ever made for normal use, period. For some entertainment, read up on the torture-tests that Ruger put them through.

Gear

Yeah, fast firing rates in over bored cartridges will burn a barrel.

[silverado]

What would you say to 16 grains of w296 with 158 grains of powder coated lead?

[silverado]

I had a pretty impressive flash with good accuracy...

[Love Life]

I wouldn't sweat it too much. At the end of the day barrels are consumables. Shoot it until you see a dramatic decrease in accuracy. That'll probably happen 20 years from now!

[WallyM3]

"At the end of the day barrels are consumables."

Truly.

[runfiverun]

funny the barrel thing I see guy's balk at paying 10 cents instead of 9 cents for bullets, or scream bloody murder at paying 90 cents instead of 40 cents for good [lapua] cases.
then think nothing of dropping 600.00 on a re-barrel.

[WallyM3]

Are you sure you're talking about the same guys?

[Love Life]

They save enough on bullets and low brand cases to buy their new barrel!

[WallyM3]

Ah! All is revealed!

(Shirley, you jest.)

[Love Life]

Don't you call me Shirley!! My rifle barrel food consists entirely of Sierra and Berger bullets followed by uber slow powder. I'll have to change things up once the barrel comes back since it was chopped to 21 inches to get past the 5 inches or so of alligator skin....

[BruceB]

Actually, I have a feeling that it IS possible to wear out a rifle barrel with moderate cast loads.

I base this on my experience with a Ruger Old Model Super Blackhawk, bought new around 66/67.

After thirty years and MANY thousands of full-power cast-bullet loads, there was obvious wear in the barrel throat and rounding of the lands near the cylinder. Pistol pressures are not really all that high, compared to those in rifles....even those in many cast-bullet loads. The vast majority of rounds fired in that were revolver were cast....likely at least 95%.

My M1A, which was the test-bed for that marathon "sticky" thread about the .308, has now fired about six thousand cast loads along with maybe 1500 Matchkings and other jacketed bullets. There seems to be very little visible wear in its barrel so far. That is just the way I like it!

[Lonegun1894]

As per my notes, I have 84K rds of .45acp through my 1911, and 91K through my .357Mag Ruger Security Six. Those two are my highest round count guns, and both still shoot great, actually as well or better than the day I bought them. The 1911 I bought new so the round count is accurate, while the Ruger was made in '86/'87 IIRC, and bought by me used in '02, so no idea of total round count, just what I have fired through it. Like has been said, life-expectancy is affected by load type, bullet type, etc, etc... But for the most part, you take care of it and it will outlast you--unless it's a Taurus. :takinWiz:

[KYShooter73]

What would you say to 16 grains of w296 with 158 grains of powder coated lead?

If it is .300 Blackout, that's almost my go-to load. 15.7 grains w296 with 160ish COWW/ESPC/GC. You don't happen to have any 296 do you? Where do you live? Keep your doors locked?
:kidding:

[FergusonTO35]

Some guns have a limited lifespan due to design or cost constraints. My little Kel-Tec PF9 is one of them, I think the aluminum frame insert and maybe the slide rails would wear out or crack after a few thousand rounds of factory loads. I shoot and carry reduced loads with boolits for this gun, about the level of .38 Special or hot .380. This makes for much easier and accurate shooting and the perfect power level for the gun.

[Silver Jack Hammer]

I believe it was John Plaster who said that a .30-06 barrel's life expectancy is 2 1/2 seconds. He considered the velocity of the boolit, the length of the barrel and calculated the time in milliseconds that boolit is in the barrel, then multiply that time by the number of rounds the barrel should last and he came up with 2 1/2 seconds.

The barrel life expectancy of a belted cartridge rifle is considerably less.

[silverado]

I believe it was John Plaster who said that a .30-06 barrel's life expectancy is 2 1/2 seconds. He considered the velocity of the boolit, the length of the barrel and calculated the time in milliseconds that boolit is in the barrel, then multiply that time by the number of rounds the barrel should last and he came up with 2 1/2 seconds.

The barrel life expectancy of a belted cartridge rifle is considerably less.

Does that mean you can shoot more rounds if they are faster and spend less time in the barrel? :rolleyes:

[Beagle333]

I'm pretty certain that a stainless-steel GP-100 is THE most durable handgun ever made for normal use, period.

But don't tell my wife that! She thinks I need the blued ones for everyday shooting so I don't wear out my "good" stainless GP! ;-)

[Treeman]

"Over bore capacity" rifle cartridges can use up a barrel in a few hundred to a few thousand rounds. Milder cartridges give longer barrel life. Low pressure, low velocity, lubricated lead bullets? Ad Topperwein the trick shooter of a century ago had a couple of .44 Russian revolvers that the S&W factory inspected after 250k and 300k respectively. They were in flawless condition and continued in service for years after the inspection. Some modern guns are very robustly made while others are being made as light and small as possible for concealed carry. I don't expect a little Keltec or Diamondback (or Ruger LCP) to last for tens of thousands of rounds but even the lightly made guns have service lives that will mean spending far far more on ammo than the cost of the gun.

[theperfessor]

I had an original Charter .44 Bulldog that I wore out in about 1000-1200 rounds of fast DA shooting. The parts wore to the point that the cylinder wouldn't rotate into place if I thumb cocked it or used a slow DA pull. No damage to anything else, and I sold it to a guy that knew about the problem and was enough of a gunsmith to be able to get it back in shape. (I would have gotten it fixed myself but was short of cash then and needed the money.)

On the other hand, I have a stainless GP100 and I can't imagine ever wearing it out with anything I could stand to shoot in it.

I've concluded that gun life expectancy is a combination of three things - design, maintenance (cleaning and lubing), and usage. All of those are under the owners control.

[Texantothecore]

Winchester once fired 2 million rounds through a shotgun. Measured it and declared it "As manufactured".

[garym1a2]

I have a Glock 22 that I had to replaced a broke trigger springer and later the firing pin. They do wear out.
It was probally in the 10 to 12K range.

Back in the High power days I had to replace a barrel on an M1A that was wearing out. The hammer on that one broke once.

[220]

I haven't kept accurate round counts but have a couple handguns that would be over 50k, buckmark and 686, the 686 has been feed mainly light target loads and is like new, expect it should see 250k and still be running.
On the other hand I have a swift that hasn't quite reached 1000rds if I get to 2000 without replacing the barrel I will be happy.
Like others have said the barrel on high intensity rifle cartridges is really a consumable, ive heard of rifles on their 5th or 6th barrel that are still mechanically fine.

[rintinglen]

The gun range I used to frequent had a Ruger security Six that had nearly 200,000 rounds though it before requiring barrel work. Erosion had worn down and enlarged the forcing cone until it was about half the original wall thickness. Along the way it had had the rear sight replaced after being dropped on the concrete floor. On the other hand, I had a S&W M-19 that split the forcing cone after about 5,000 rounds of mixed 357 and 38 Special. My 1975 K-22 has lord only knows how many rounds through it.

How many rounds a pistol or revolver can shoot before needing a major overhaul depends largely on the strength of the loads being used and the quality of the workmanship. High pressure loads accelerate wear, low pressure minimizes it. Maintenance also bears a role. I keep reading about these combat commandos who shoot thousands of rounds and "never" clean their guns. Maybe so, but ever notice how the guys with the high mile cars tend to be the ones who change the oil and filters regularly. A little lube and regular, careful cleaning goes a long way to prolonging the life of a handgun.

[Love Life]

Who doesn't clean guns? I can understand not deep cleaning a barrel, but ignoring the rest of the gun? Tom foolery!!

[MtGun44]

I have several 1911s with way north of 60,000 rounds thru them and NOT worn
out by any means. Rifle barrels will go first, maybe 5-10K before they have
"issues" - depends a LOT on the cartridge, loads used and how fast they are
fired (heat in the barrel).

Bill

[BD]

Provided that you maintain them, and replace parts as needed, my experience indicates the following:

-1911s will go 100,000 rounds

-An AR-15 match grade rifle will maintain match grade status for about 3,000 rounds, (a new barrel will provide another 3,000, and on , and on until the pins get so loose that you buy a new upper, (or lower), and up-size the pins)

-A .220 swift, .270 WBY mag or similar "over-bored" necked rifle round barrel will go 2,000 to 2,500 rounds before you need a barrel, the rest of it will last forever.

-Any 6.5x55, loaded to the traditional max pressure, will last forever, longer if you clean it once every 50 years.

-A Ruger Redhawk, or Blackhawk, not abused, will also last forever.

-A S&W lightweight J frame will go 10,000 rounds max, in any chambering. Even if it's just you dry firing it 10,000 times. Pull that trigger 10,000 times, and trigger pull 10,001 will be a loud click with the firing pin hitting somewhere, but not likely on the primer.

-A Ruger .22, .22/45 will last until the next millennium if you don't destroy it by cleaning it.

-Any well maintained decent hunting rifle in a non-magnum chambering will last, and stay accurate, the 5,200 rounds needed to kill a deer once a week for 100 years, if you don't destroy it cleaning it.

-Any muzzle loader will last far longer than you are willing to re-load it, if you clean it every time you shoot it. People can dig it up out of your grave and load it and shoot it 100 years later. This has happened many, many times.
BD

[destrux]

Depends on the gun and how it's used.

My cousin has a Taurus PT111 that has really bad slide wear that's preventing proper striker engagement and the gun only has about 1,000 rounds through it. The gun is, effectively, worn out. Repairable, but worn out. Taurus told him he'd have to ship it to the factory to have it fixed, and the local dealer quoted $200 shipping and handling.

I had a Norinco 213 once (TT33 clone, in 9mm), bought it brand new, and the part of the slide that recocks the hammer was so mushroomed after 500 rounds that I had to replace the slide because I couldn't file it back into shape anymore. Then I noticed the "frame service life" listed in the owners manual was "1000 rounds". I sold the gun to Cabela's shortly after and was happy to get $100 for it. I haven't had any problems with my Norinco SKS's wearing unusually though.

I've heard of Beretta 92's with over 100,000 rounds that are still on the original barrel, and I've heard of a guy with a SMLE that had around 300,000 rounds through it (during his club's ownership of it, not counting it's military usage).

[silverado]

Today at my local shooting range an instructor was really badmouthing beretta 92 pistols saying they last 3000 rounds and then done. Pretty sure he is just some kind of glock or 1911 fanboy. He also said he would not do a session with my wife if she brought my beretta with her. AND that the smith and wesson 69 series was "ok, some good some bad"(paraphrase). Well... He can shoot what he likes but don't trash everything else.

[silverado]

As far as I have read beretta 92 recoil spring has a 3000 round life and the locking block 30,000 rounds.
The first thing I did to my 92 was change the recoil spring when the slide caused the gun to severely flip back as I got it used for $350 plus tax used.

[HollandNut]

had a mid 70's vintage SBH that I documented over 100k from 1975 until 2007 , was still going strong when the house burned up

had a 30/378 ( wildcat before Webby chambered it ) , first barrel went out at 400 , second made 1000 ..

[MtGun44]

A friend was a USMC rangemaster at Camp Pendleton in the early 70s. He said they
sent the Ruger training .22 std auto pistols back to Ruger for refurb at 500,000 rounds
thru them.

Bill

[NavyVet1959]

My favorite guy for dealing man toys was explaining to a customer that kimber pistols are broken in at around 4500 rounds. What say you guys to this?

I guess it depends upon what you mean by "broken in". I have a Kimber and it has a LOT less rounds than that on it and I have NEVER had a jam with it.

I have a Ruger Mk-II and it's had quite a few thousand rounds through it and it is still a tack driver. I hear that the Iranian Air Force used them for pilot training back during the time of the Shah and that they had ones which had over 1M rounds through them without having to replace anything. Although I own a few of the "plastic guns", I don't see them lasting as long as that though.

[Tom Herman]

Yep.... If the gun is QUALITY to begin with, and you run middle of the road cast loadings, properly clean and lube it, the lifetime should be close to infinite. Ditto with the brass: I have casings that have been loaded gosh knows how many times, and they just keep soldiering on... I have several thousand through most of my guns, primarily Rugers and Smiths.




If you take care of the gun, meaning proper lubrication and no "hot" loads, you aren't likely to wear any of them out using cast boolits. With proper maintenance and lubrication and no hot-rodding, a car engine will run many billions of cycles per cylinder before it wears out. The worst you might see in your guns is with extremely high-pressure loadings in rifles that will erode the throats (same as with jacketed bullets), with muzzle-loaders that get worn 'slick' from the patches, and some typical wear patterns in revolvers from super-duper-whopper-magnum-level loadings.

I'm pretty certain that a stainless-steel GP-100 is THE most durable handgun ever made for normal use, period. For some entertainment, read up on the torture-tests that Ruger put them through.

Gear

[Tom Herman]

Not always: The barrels on Webley Mark VI and similar revolvers are part of the frame. Wear the barrel out, and you are severely SOL, as I am with one of mine. A steady diet of J bullets (before I got it!) did the deed.


"At the end of the day barrels are consumables."

Truly.

[Silver Jack Hammer]

We had Beretta 92's and never had a single problem with them. That locking block is made out of the hardest steel on the entire pistol. We never had a slide crack or barrel wear. One armorer retired from Connecticut said they had less problems with the Beretta 92 than they did the Smith K frames. Now the Beretta 96 is a different matter. The Beretta 96 was adopted by a local police department and they had to replace that because of all the problems they had with it. I don't like Glocks but our new dept. issued guns are not breaking or malfunctioning.