1868 spencer rifle.

[Ibgreen]

I have been on a quest for a good BP substitute load for this rifle. It is an 1868 Spencer repeating New Model Rifle. Chambered in 56-50. I replaced the original rimfire block with an S&S centerfire block. The gun slugs to .515. The sights are horrendous.101214101215101216101218101219

The target was shot from a rest at 50 yards.

Best load so far has been

360 gr .517 sized Boolit 9-1 lead -alloy
Starline 56-50 brass
26 gr (weight) 777 2f
50/50 beeswax/coconut fat lube
Large magnum PP

[RPRNY]

Interesting rifle. Not very run of the mill! I bet that would be hell on hogs over bait ;-)

That's a pretty handy group, especially given your description of the sights. Are you using a wad and lube cookie? I shoot some 777 in the 444 Marlin and while the fouling is less than with BP, I find it wants more lube to stay moist and pliable. Mind you, I use beeswax/crisco/jojoba oil and that coconut fat sounds like an excellent component.

[Ibgreen]

It is nice having 7 follow up shots in a 50 cal rifle. It does make the 100 yard steel target sing rather nicely. This particular rifle is believed to be 1 of 1000 made. It was shipped to France during the Franco-Prussian unpleasantries in the 1870's.

No wad or cookie. Just generous lube grooves in a lubrisizer.http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/04/03/y6urugas.jpg

[DaveInFloweryBranchGA]

With a group like that, is there not a way to adjust front sight (drift in dovetail) to bring group to center, perhaps fix the elevation by adding some metal (welding/file/cold blue) to get elevation lower? Really neat rifle, btw. Love to have one.

[Ibgreen]

I drifted the rear sight back to zero (still 8" high at 50 yards). Gets better at 100 yards.

[DaveInFloweryBranchGA]

Probably the key at this point is to figure out where the original cartridges were meant to be zeroed to, assuming you're fairly closely duplicating the original load. Might be tough information to find though. What distances are the rear sight marked to?

[Ibgreen]

The original load were copper cased rimfire 56-50. Modern centerfire cases cannot hold as much powder thus my inclination to use 777 substitute due to it being 15% hotter than black powder. I am also getting ready to convert 32ga brass shot shells for cases. The rear sight is a civil war period sharps sight with a very narrow window. The front sight is a typical bayonet lug front sight that is soldiered on. Due to the rarity of this particular model, I will not damage the original components.

[elk hunter]

New 56-50 CF cases are available, but the rim is smaller than on the original round and wont extract when used in original rifles and carbines. I found that out after buying 50 of them at over $1.00 each. I ended up making cases from 50-70 brass and they work well in my carbine. I recently talked with a guy that stated he had several hundred rounds of original commercial ammunition for the 56-50 and considered buying some just to say I had shot mine with original ammo, but decided against it.

[Ibgreen]

I am lucky that my original uses the short side blade extractor. It handles 56-50 starline brass wonderfully. I am switching to 32ga brass because it will hold up to 45 gr of powder (30 gr for starline.). If you want to sell your 56-50 brass I may be interested in them.

[missionary5155]

Greetings
I would recommend you try 3F. In my 50-95 there was no way to get close to old published velocities until I switched. BINGO !! Right on the mark. Plus fouling is not there as with 2F and no blow back into the action.
Where did you get your Center fire Block ? ( Found it ) I have a carbine that could be fun with some affordable ammo.
Mike in Peru

[Ibgreen]

S&S, Buffalo Arms and Dixie Gun Works sell them. I do not know the legalities regarding export from the USA?

[Ibgreen]

Made up a front sight cover with a blade insert to go over my horrible original front sight.101942

[mikeym1a]

Made up a front sight cover with a blade insert to go over my horrible original front sight.101942

Field Expedient improvement!!!! :bigsmyl2::bigsmyl2::bigsmyl2:

[Ibgreen]

I did not get any pictures, but the front sight was at the perfect 50 yard elevation right from the get go. I was shooting a mixed bag of BH209 2f, 777 3f and 2f. I will say that 3f did burn cleaner. I was able to make the 24" steel plate sing 40 out of 49 times at 120 yards.

[Ibgreen]

Got some time at the range today. 103301

[RPRNY]

Not too shabby! I see you're using water quenched wheel weights. Do you know BHN? I'm guessing 14-16 BHN. That may be much harder than ideal for Black Powder and Subs. 20:1 to 30:1 seems the sweet spot for BP. Try something softer and see if it helps tighten up, although with open suboptimal sights, that's a great group.

[Ibgreen]

Ohh, I have not even addressed trigger pull yet. 100% of others that shoot it for the first time, look back at me and ask me if this hard of a trigger is normal. 15lb pull would be my guess. Yep, I have more work to do.

[herbert buckland]

New 56-50 CF cases are available, but the rim is smaller than on the original round and wont extract when used in original rifles and carbines. I found that out after buying 50 of them at over $1.00 each. I ended up making cases from 50-70 brass and they work well in my carbine. I recently talked with a guy that stated he had several hundred rounds of original commercial ammunition for the 56-50 and considered buying some just to say I had shot mine with original ammo, but decided against it.Useing Bp to load the 56-50 Spencer round it is very important to use a compression die if you want to duplicate original loads,even than 40 gr off FF in the Starline brass and 45 grs in the cutt down 32ga brass is maximum under heavy compression.My best load by far is 45grs Wano PP heavley compressed in cut down 32ga CCI large pistol primers with under primer wad and a NEI 395 Spencer bullet sized to .516, this is in a 1 in 36 inch twist barrel with a groove size off .514 ,very close to your rifles barrel spects

[Ibgreen]

Useing Bp to load the 56-50 Spencer round it is very important to use a compression die if you want to duplicate original loads,even than 40 gr off FF in the Starline brass and 45 grs in the cutt down 32ga brass is maximum under heavy compression.My best load by far is 45grs Wano PP heavley compressed in cut down 32ga CCI large pistol primers with under primer wad and a NEI 395 Spencer bullet sized to .516, this is in a 1 in 36 inch twist barrel with a groove size off .514 ,very close to your rifles barrel spects

Hi Herbert,
With the NEI mold, are you loosing much of the lube groove sizing down from .52?

[herbert buckland]

I loose a bit but there is still enough for my 26 inch sporter barrel,The lube is olive oil and bees wax which seems to be the best BP lube here