Pre-"HoneyMoon" Jitters(My Intro into PP Muzzleloaders)

[Themoose]

I'm getting more "fuzzy" as the timeclock winds down to receiving my mold for my venture in paper patching muzzleloaders... I've read and re-read many posts in this and other subforums on paper patching.. I guess I just want someone to see if I am on the right track, or have already vectored off course.

1. I slugged my bore and found it to be .452-.453. (Probably should do again to re-verify)

2. The mold I "won" on EBay is a Shiloh casting a .445 hollow base bullet...(should get here in 2 days)

3. I have ample supply of "soft" lead and casting tools(have cast for muzzleloaders and centerfire
for years)

4. I went on scavenger hunt in the area for suitable paper for wrapping... could only find some tracing
Paper mic's out to .0015 by my measurement.

5. Played today with another mz bullet in learning how to make template and paper wrap.

6. Ran wrapped thru push thru lubesizer and made confetti.(Bullet was not sized before running thru
the sizer and may be oversized(it does go thru sizer very easily, without paper).

7. Once I cast and weight sort bullets, I plan on letting them sit for about a week to harden before
attempting to patch and size for shooting to not deform " soft" bullets.

8. Will try to load patched bullets in rifle first without sizing to see how tight they are to load.

9. If too tight, I will have to run thru sizer..(I only have .451 now and don't want to buy another sizer
that may not be the right size).

10. Plan on making some felt wads to try in range tests.

11. Will use On Target program to record and score all loads tested.



What do I have out of whack or missing? I will likely carry my micrometer around with me to test the thickness of other papers I find to add to my testing list without coughing up $25 just to try one.



Thanks for your help folks. It is greatly appreciated.

TheMoose

[Boz330]

You don't say what you are going to shoot these things in.
You don't have to shoot pure lead, I use a 25-1 lead/tin mix. For paper you want a cotton rag paper if you can find it. I don't think that they make it anymore but Buffalo Arms has it or use to.

Bob

[johnson1942]

you dont have to let them sit a week to wrap and shoot, i have soft pp bullets and hard ones, 20 to 1 and they both shoot good. the .451 reduceing die i bet will be perfect. also about the tails, buy a curved cuticle sissors at a pharmacy and use that to clip the tails next to the base of the bullet. the curved blade lets you cut closer to the base than a reg. sissors. iv read that ron said he lubes the paper with chapstick. that sounds very good as it is waxey without being oiley. you could also use some of your case lube mixed with wax to stiffen it up a little and that would work and go a long way. some of my bullets are sized before i wrap and some after wrapped. thay both shoot perfectly. im not sure what ron does but i dry wrap all my paperpatch bullets even my 45/70 ones. some one posted a while back that the paper comes off of the bullet easier when dry wrapped and he maybe right. it works good for me. again im not fussy about the hardness of the bullet, i dont use wheel weights but the lead i use varies with the tin in it. the bullets all shoot the same. remember resizeing a bullet before or after wrapping makes it perfectly round by going through the sizer. that makes for better groups. your going to really enjoy pp bullets. have fun.

[idahoron]

I will try to answer some of your questions.

#1 sounds about right. What is the twist of your guns?

#2 That should be a good size. I am using the RCBS 11 mm rifle bullet. It is .446

#3 For my 45 I use harder lead. My gun show well with soft but it really started to shine with harder lead. I like my 45 cal bullets to be 8 to 9 BHN.

#4 I use 25% cotton but if you can't find it the paper mill store has wood pulp onion skin that works well.

#5 Good

#6 If your .445 bullet wrapped two times tears the paper off something is wrong. Either your lead is much harder than you think or the paper is not good. I wrap my .446 bullets and size them with my .446 sizer dry and hey push through like they were made of butter.

#7 If you bullets are soft they are not going to harden by waiting. And no amount of sitting is going to keep them from deforming.

#8 If you bullets are .445 and your wrapping two wraps of 9# ONION skin they might fit and slide down pretty good. It depends on the barrel.

#9 It they won't go down the .451 might not size them enough. Your just going to have to see how they fit.

#10 Felt wads are a must in my opinion. Add a pinch of lube like Bore butter and make them over sized. I like .52" to .53" in diameter. I like the to pucker a bit as you enter them into the barrel.

What do you have out of whack? I think I covered it with the paper and the hardness of your lead. I don't like lube on paper at all. If I must use it like was said I use chapstick right at the time of loading. I have only seen one barrel that I needed to do that with. I don't cut the tail off of mine. With my 50 I don't think my paper would stay on if I did that. They would likely push right through the paper they are that tight. The Paper mill store paper will work. I wouldn't pay for other paper that might work. The 25% cotton paper from Buffalo would also be a good choice. I am very curious about the bullets that stripped the paper off. That don't sound right. If you need to test your lead you can send me a couple bullets and I will test them. Ron

[Themoose]

Thanks to all for your responses... The rifle that I plan to try first is a 45 Knight Disc Rifle and I think the twist is 1:28, but not sure... The paper I have is most likely the issue with the sizing... it feels more like thin tissue paper that comes with some shoes or clothing when bought new... I do have a lead hardness tester and various alloys and BHN's to choose from.. I guess I honed in on soft lead from reading the many posts about the subject. I still have some black powder lube I made from beeswax, Murphy's oil soap, and Neatsfoot oil (from a Paul Matthews book) that I used when I had a 74 Sharp's. The mold was waiting on me when I got home from work.. looks to be in very good condition and hardly used...doesn't look like any mold I have ever had, but will clean it up and try to mold up some bullets on my next day off.

Once again, thanks to all for your help.

TheMoose

[Themoose]

Houston, We Have A Problem!!! After eating I took the mold to the reloading/casting area to clean... when cleaning I noticed it looked exceedingly small.... I put on handles and fired up the pot with the lead in it... didn't want to melt, empty and put in alloy I was going to use... just wanted to see what I really had... looks to be a 45 Minie... not what I was expecting... The description on EBAY was:

"This is an shiloh 45 caliber hollow base bullet mold 445 E #B2374. This mold uses Lyman double cavity handles and it has self aligning core pin."

I could not find a better description for the mold on this site and the web... and "***"umed that it was for a hollow base mold running around 400 grains... NOPE... it is only 0.785" long.. cast @ .446 weighing only 233grains... has a very deep and thin hollow base...

Can this be used for paper patching??? or just use as regular Minie in 45 and chalk this up to a rookie mistake?

TheMoose

[idahoron]

You can still paper patch it but as short as those are I would be surprised if they shoot that good. The RCBS 11 mm bullet I think would work great in your knight. My barrel is a Green Mountain and they make the knight barrels. They are .446"
Ron

[johnson1942]

the moose, i apologise for telling you to get it as in the photo and discription it didnt look as to what you got. if it was mine and ive done this before on some moulds, carefully flatten the hollow makeing base of the mould so you have a flat base. it really isnt hard to do, also if you have a good vice and a good drill press and can center the mould you can get a new sharp drill bit and give the bullet mould a new nose shape and slightly deeper. if you cant go deeper you can get that bullet over 300 grains. a flat base and a kieth type nose will add weight. if you dont want to do that i think it was around a 35 dollar investment and if it was ill buy it from you so you dont have a loss. the picture didnt look the way it discribed, sorry again. it would shoot very well in my .45 1/30 twist im building but it may in your 1/28 also.

[Themoose]

Roger,
I'll PM you later today, but bottom don't hold responsible in any way....I'm over 18(way over) and l know sometimes you get a curve ball thrown at you. You don't need to buy the mold...I ended up paying about $52 with shipping included. If you really want the mold we can talk about it.

Thanks for stepping up...but again not necessary.

TheMoose

[johnson1942]

thanks, i really think the mould can be made to work and work real well. maybe just as is. im so used to doing things with out a lot of money that i just make things work as they are or tweak them. that mould really looks good on the ebay picture. can you show a picture of the base as maybe the hollow base and skirt are ok. i always use a .60 thousands fiber wad behind my hollow base bullets as when it slams against the base the hollow base this helps bump up the bullet faster by collasping the hollow base in a uniform way.

[deep creek]

ive been paper patching my 500 sw 450 gr boolits withvellum paper 25% rag cotton its made by helix found in the drafting section in stores like staples etc .it works really well.www.helixusa.com .i all so use a felt over powder wad.