Paper patch a 58 cal minie in 12ga?

[HiVelocity]

Folks, I handload 12ga slugs and buckshot. For some unknown reason, I want to try loading a 58 cal minie in a 12S3 wad and load with a charge of Blue Dot. With "fit" being key, I'm thinking about paper-patching the slug to fit. Im not sure if it will work, but, in theory, appears feesible. Ideas? Comments? Suggestions? Has anyone else tried this, or something similar?

HV

[hubel458]

Easier to use our 12ga super sabot which uses
58cal minie slugs, it is a regular discarding sabot.
Minies of .575" -.577" work best.Ed

[bikerbeans]

I don't know squat about PP but it sounds like a fun experiment to me.

BB

[Janoosh]

Paper patching the minie...how will the paper release.??
You really need a sabot/wad that grips the minie without patching. Or use the hubel sabot.
You could try making the inside, or outside, of the wad thicker.

[Hogtamer]

Ed, since you've posted on this thread how about saving me a little reading....I've got a modern minie mold that drops .576 @ 464 grns. I got a few of your sabots from cpileri. Loading 2 3/4" federal hulls. Looks like I can load these using 1 1/8 oz. and looks like a lot of possibilities with Longshot. There's a lot of variance in the charges using different wads. I will be star crimping as I have no roll crimp tool. My question is that since I will be loading with no cushion wad (1 OP wad, a hard card or 2 then the sabot), how will this effect pressure vs. a cushioned wad? Looks like 1400 - 1580 fps is doable but I 'spect that will hurt some. Any advice appreciated. oh, and one more....the skirt looks very thin on this slug....hot glue in the cavity?

[cpileri]

Hogtamer,
2.75" hull w star crimp, the HubelSbaot, plus a OP wad and HCW will fit, but not leave much room for powder.
VDOmemorie (Ajay) did a pictorial of powders from least to most bulky. I'll see if I can find it.
C-

[hubel458]

Best to use a plastic over powder wad and at the most thin felt cushion
wad with our sabot if using 58cal Minies, as the sabot base is
tough enough so it doesn't need hard cards.The white felt
works good that BPI has. Using more ofslower powders eliminates
extra stugff that may affect acuracy.

Going with slower powders negates problems ofpeak pressure
going too high. That why I prefer 4759 or Alliant Steel and in
2.75" cases with slower powder really only need seal.
I posted in 12ga fH thread how the guy with Abolt
tight barrel solved accuracy problems by going to
4759 powder from a faster powder.

The base of the sabot is strong enough so that skirt on the
slugs won't bother it,.I don't know how accurate they will be
star crimped, we only roll crimped over the top edge of sabot,
as the sabot holds slug ok without needing a star crimp
down on the slug. Ed

[Hogtamer]

I loaded and shot a few of the lee modern minies, .576" - 464 grns in a federal hull, the base off a trap commander for an OP wad, then the sabot. This seated way too low for a normal crimp, but the 8pt star actually folded down over the sabot like a roll crimp with the big meplat exposed. Looked like a good deal to me but it was WAAAY too much pressure, hulls wouldn't eject, kicked like a mule and the fourth shot did my scope mount in....not a bad group though! So the slower burning Alliant Steel is also bulkier and takes up more room? I will try to find some - no more LSHT to be had - along with some BPI x12x OP wads and felt cushions....what kind of load w/alliant steel in the 2 3/4 hull are you talking for a moderate load?

[cpileri]

Here is from Ed Hubel's Loooooong thread:

For most of you in 2.75" and 3" cases Alliant Steel is best.
FOR 440GR SLUGS IN SABOT---For 2.75" start at 40gr and go up to about 50.

and here is my own summary of his loads:

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?199731-Safety-of-hubel-Sabot-in-875-muzzle-thickness-barrel&p=2301410&viewfull=1#post2301410

[cpileri]

And here is Ajay's powder pictorial. Might not perfectly answer your question, but here it is anyway.
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?153045-VdoMemories-Blazing-Buck-amp-Ball-or-Buck-amp-Slugs&p=1872371&viewfull=1#post1872371
C-

[Hogtamer]

thanks for doing my homework for me!!! 40 grns of Steel is where I'll go.....gotta find some first, will start on that tomorrow. gotta retap my scope base with larger screws too. We have a little golf tournament in Augusta next week, the Masters, and I am engaged cooking from Sunday to Sunday. Gotta order some OP wads too. Lots to do!

[cpileri]

No prob.
The only pressure/velocity comparitive data i can give you is what i found to be "kinda close":
1&3/8oz load (610gr) w 45gr Steel gives 1555fps/9.5kpsi (CAVEAT: with some other wad and some other hull)
vs
34-35gr longshot = 1430fps/9.9-10.3kpsi (same caveat)
vs
64gr 4759=1550fps/11.4kpsi (same caveat)

So these i just had for 'reassurance' that 40-50gr of steel w the 440gr slug plus 40-ish gr sabot was a safe load. I do not know exactly what the pressures/velocities are w the hubel sabots.