Loading Help please - Euroarms pistol

[offshore44]

I have this Euroarms Navy pistol "replica" in .44 cal that the wife got for me probably 30+ years ago, and I've never shot it. I'm getting the itch...

It's brass framed and has never been shot.

Sooo... What do I need to get and how do I go about safely loading and shooting this thing? Black powder substitutes are a lot easier to get a-hold of around here than black powder, if that makes a difference.

Thanks for the advice in advance.

[Pb2au]

The odds are on you will need a .454" ball for that shooter.
As for powder, if the real stuff isn't available, pyrodex P powder will do. Just remember, that stuff makes some pretty corrosive residue after firing. Keep your loads at around 20 grains and with some cornmeal on top for a filler. Remember, no airspace between the ball and powder. Being that it is a brass frame, I wouldn't load it any heavier than that. At 20 grains it should be a nice shooting arrangement.
Caps, it will take a size ten or 11, not sure which. You will just have to figure out which one fits snugly.

Report back if you have any other questions.

[Buffalo Arms Co]

Caps, powder, wads, projectiles and lube will get you started with a nipple wrench and capper coming in handy. With the brass frame, you may want to think about getting some real black powder. Hope that helps.

[offshore44]

Thanks Pb2au.

I"m guessing that the loading order is something like this: Dump 20 grns of powder into chamber, add corn meal to bring ball even with top of chamber, rinse and repeat four times, add caps to the nipples on the five loaded chambers, cock, aim, shoot. Repeat as necessary... Scrub out with warm water and soap, oil. Is that about right?

[offshore44]

Caps, powder, wads, projectiles and lube will get you started with a nipple wrench and capper coming in handy. With the brass frame, you may want to think about getting some real black powder. Hope that helps.

Nice! Since I'm starting out with zero BP knowledge and zero BP experience, that helps a lot! Wads and Lube. I'm guessing that the wads and lube go under the ball. As in, powder, wad, lube (lube cookie?) and then the ball? If I can locate some black powder, what granulation am I looking for? Sorry for the basic questions, but I'm really starting out from zero here and want to do it right.

[Buffalo Arms Co]

I actually prefer a lubed wad, bullet then top off the cylinder with bore butter, but there a few ways to skin that cat. If you ever have black powder questions, don't hesitate to call, we do have two 1,000 yard Creedmoor BPCR national champions in house.

[offshore44]

Thanks Buffalo Arms Co. Good stuff. Why am I getting this feeling that I'll need to rearrange the safe to make more room in it? ...and the powder magazine and reloading room? lol

[Pb2au]

Thanks Pb2au.

I"m guessing that the loading order is something like this: Dump 20 grns of powder into chamber, add corn meal to bring ball even with top of chamber, rinse and repeat four times, add caps to the nipples on the five loaded chambers, cock, aim, shoot. Repeat as necessary... Scrub out with warm water and soap, oil. Is that about right?

Pretty much that is it.
As Buffalo Arms said, a lubed felt wad is a definite substitution for the cornmeal. I use them quite a bit. I mentioned it in this case to account for a "reduced" charge of powder. The short game again, no air space between the powder and the ball.
Bore butter over the cylinder mouths is also a go to idea. It helps keep the fouling soft in the bore.

Have fun

[Omnivore]

Pyrodex P (for Pistol), or black powder in 3F granulation is what you want. Hodgdon triple seven in 3F (though reduce your charge slightly for 777) and there are others. Buffalo Arms and others sell black powder via mail order, so in that sense it's available anywhere. BP substitutes are used in the same volume as BP, though their weight may actually be much less. The substitutes are designed that way so you can generally use the same volumetric powder measure for both BP and substitute powders.

The cornmeal filler is only to have the ball close the front cylinder face once it's rammed home in the chamber. That's generally considered to be the way to best accuracy when shooting lighter loads. With a full chamber of powder and ball you wouldn't use a filler of course, but in a brasser you do NOT want to use full house loads, as it will peen the frame's recoil ring and loosen the cylinder arbor in the frame. It can get very ugly. Watch your cylinder-to-barrel gap-- it should not get to be more than about 0.005". The larger the gap, the more brutal the peening of the frame.

If you decide you like percussion revolvers, you'll want to get a steel frame gun at some stage.

The lube is mainly to help keep the powder fouling soft so you don't get an accumulation of hard fouling build-up in the gun, and so it's also easier to clean. Lube behind the ball using a lubed felt wad, helps soften the fouling in the barrel bore. Some people add a small amount of additional lube over the felt and under the ball. Too much and you're forcing grease into the powder, changing its properties.

Lube over the ball, though messy, can help keep the cylinder rotating more freely after several reloads--Fouling gets forced into the cylinder arbor and can tie up the cylinder after 18 shots or so and the grease helps mitigate that problem somewhat. The idea there is to use an over ball lube of the right consistency for the weather, such that it doesn't get blown out from adjacent chambers right away with the first shot. So a softer lube in cold weather and a harder lube for hot weather. The Bore Butter can even become liquid in hot weather, and so mixing in some bee's wax or paraffin wax will help there. Generally animal fats and vegetable oils are used, because some petroleum derivatives can react with the fouling and make it into a hard tar that's a real pain to deal with. As a hardener, paraffin wax is safe, and bee's wax has been used for a long, long time.

Actually lubricating the ball itself is not the point, as it is when shooting high pressure rifle loads. So the lube type is not important. Many use Crisco. It doesn't have to be expensive.

If you're using enough lube, the barrel will wipe clean with two or three dry patches, but still you may have to clean it and the rest of the gun with water. I never use soap, as I don't want to cut the grease off of the steel completely. Just me I guess-- I think the soap is pointless, if not counterproductive. Use HOT water, so the metal ends up hot and dries much faster.

Back in the 1860s the Colt's loading instructions said nothing of lube or fillers, just powder, ball and cap. We tend to make things more complicated as we go along, sometimes going back to the simpler methods after many years, and finding simpler sometimes works better after all. But when you want to shoot a lot in one day without your gun freezing up from fouling, the lube does help.

Them that wants to keep a pistol loaded for extended periods of time will NOT use a greased wad against the powder, as it contaminates the powder, resulting in an incomplete burn and sometimes VERY light shots. In that case just lube over the ball. You can leave a gun loaded for months or even years that way. If you're going to shoot right away it doesn't matter, and so a lubed wad is good. You will find that shooting wads are sold un-lubed, dry-lubed, and greased. The greased wads are best for keeping fouling soft, which is the main reason for using wads in this application.

NEVER shoot with any part of your body, or anyone else's body parts, in front of the cylinder face. That is if you like your fingers and other parts and prefer to keep them intact.

[dikman]

I use wax pills (or cookies, if you prefer) over the powder, then the ball. Works for me, and no need to lube over the ball. I've shot 50 rounds and the cylinder rotation was stiffening slightly but still going strong. Lubed felt wads would probably be as good, but felt is expensive where I live and wax pills are cheap to make.

Good luck with the shooting - I still have trouble getting the holes into the black bit of the target, but, hey, it's good fun trying :D.

[swathdiver]

Don't forget the lubrication. The cylinder pin/arbor needs to be lubricated as well as the internals. Take it apart and clean it, get all the 30 year old guck out and lube with bore butter or ballistol.

Two methods of shot lubrication, a lubed wad under the ball or grease over the ball as the fellas have said.

Find a friend with real BP or buy some from Grafs (3lbs will about equal 3lbs of substitute bought locally).

[retread]

The real challenge lately is finding caps. Online suppliers have been out of stock for quite a while. Some of your sporting goods stores, such as Cabelas, Sportman's Warhouse, etc. is your best bet right now.

[offshore44]

I Love This Place! Seriously, you can scrounge up more actual expertise in 24 hours here than any other place on the planet.

Thanks Guys!

(oh, and I didn't think about mail order black powder...duh! I order smokeless whenever I can, so why not.)

[Pb2au]

Real BP can be a bit challenging to find nowadays. I finally found a supplier on my way to Indianapolis. Stopped in, bought about 15#, went on my merry way.
Mail order is definitely an option. The real stuff is way better than Pyrodex.
Or,,,,
You could make your own,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
just sayin. http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?103852-My-homemade-black-powder

[offshore44]

Hmmm... I'm a do it yourself kinda guy. That's a thought.

[Dframe]

I was going to mention being sure to lubricate the cylinder arbor, then realised someone else already had. I will mention one thing not talked about so far. Bring some wet wipes with you. They're great for getting lube and black powder residue off your hands in the field. They also work very nicely for field cleanup of the gun particularly the cylinder face. Of course they're not a substitute for proper cleaning at home later.

[swathdiver]

Grafs has Winchester (CCI) #11s in stock now.

[Pb2au]

And chicks dig the aroma of burnt real black powder.

[GREENCOUNTYPETE]

And chicks dig the aroma of burnt real black powder.


funny that isn't what my wife says as i am cleaning a cap and ball at the dining room table , it is more like , "Does the dog have gas or is that you ?"

but in all seriousness , nipples out and scrubbed , dried , and back in with anti seize every time