Consistent Crimp Handle

[PatMarlin]

Anybody using this tool here? Couldn't find any posts in a search.

Let me know how you like it. Looks like a great idea.

http://www.bulkreloadingsupply.com/reloaders-consistent-crimp-products/

[texassako]

I might need one of those. I use a regular torque wrench for a few calibers on the bolt head opposite the handle on a Lee press. It is a great way to increase the consistency of Lee FCD's and collect neck dies.

[Walter Laich]

Interesting idea but out of my price range right now.
see it for folks like benchrest shooters

[ubetcha]

I believe Titan Reloading has something similar on their website. I think it's a torque wrench made to fit the press handle.

[tomme boy]

Lee make one. Another gimmick if you ask me.

[Pepe Ray]

The kits that are included are designed to attach the instrument to your press on the port side.
BUT there is no adapter to attach it to a Rock Chucker. A call to RCBS looking for a knuckle with both port & starb'd handle holes got me a big "no dice"! I have reservations about that but I keep notes.
Come good weather I'll truck up the road to my friendly neighborhood machine shop and have the problem rectified.
Pepe Ray

[seanhagerty]

I have one. I use it for AR reloads when I cant vary the OAL past mag length. It works much the same as adjusting neck tension does.

Some folks have called it snake oil, but I use it as another tool in my reloading toolbox.

Sean

[William Yanda]

Not sure I understand the concept. Could the same thing be accomplished by pulling on the handle with a spring calibrated appropriately? One could buy a lot of springs for $100.

[PatMarlin]

I think it's definitely a nice tool if you're into improving accuracy, with a firearm that can take you there. Any edge you can get specially with something like a consistent crimp is important. Be real interesting on my 550B to try out. But unless you've got the patience for things like weighing your cases and boolits, and the whole consistent process for bench, it's not for everyone. I'm surprised more guys haven't tried it here on CB.

These are all from the same manufacturer. His name is Scott and he does have a version for the Rockchucker.

I'm still thinking it would be killer for the Dillon presses, cause you will have consistency with every stroke of the process. AND I use the 550B more for bulk and fast reloading, so if the handle will give you an overall edge with your Dillon press, that would be very cool indeed.

[Doc Highwall]

I am not sure how well it will work as crimp dies as well as all dies should be adjusted at the rams top most travel and the variable of the crimp if the bullets are the same diameter will be case length and case wall thickness only.

People who neck turn and trim case length do not usually crimp match bullets.

[mdi]

I understand how a torque wrench works with torque applied perpendicular to the handle, but how would that tool work with force applied in line/parallel with the handle?

[PatMarlin]

I've gotten my best accuracy with crimping. I always crimp. I like LEE factory crimps as well. Depends on the type of torque wrench, and the position of it. Being able to rotate the handle should fix that. I don't think being parallel with the handle would make a difference (if) you can measure and repeat consistent pressure/force. I'm building a monster heavy bench 30'06 1903 Springfield. Probably going to be at least 25lbs with scope just for cast. Testing stuff like this will be fun.

[W.R.Buchanan]

I personally think that this is a pointless device. Here's my reasons why.

If you set up your crimping die so that the press cams over center at the end of the travel, (which is what you should be doing anyway) it will insure that the case is going into the die the same amount everytime. In other words you are in essence setting up a mechanical stop. The case goes in to the die until the press "cams over center" after which the case actually comes back out a little. IN other words the motion of the press toggle links are thru a "radiused path" and the high point of that path is where the maximum travel of the press' ram is achieved. It is also where the press achieves it's maximum amount of force when sizing a case.

Then the only variations that could exist with the crimp would be caused by inconsistent case mouth wall thickness or variations in case length, both of which you would have been standardized during your case preparation.

In the case of the case mouth wall thickness, the variations between different cases of the same headstamp are going to be pretty minute, and unless they vary more than .001-2 thruout the batch the small differences will have no significant effect on anything.. If they do vary that much then you need to cull out the offending cases and load them separately or recycle them.

The OAL of the cases is the one thing that would affect your crimp more than any other single factor and that should have been dealt with when you trimmed your cases.

The only place that I see this tool making any discernible difference is if you were loading for Benchrest Competition,,, But then nobody crimps for that, and they mostly use Wilson hand dies so there is no place to put a torque wrench.

On bottleneck cases if the bullet has a nice roll crimp that is placed at the lower edge of the bullet's cannelure then that will prevent the bullet from being dislodged forward and provide the extra bullet "Pull" to insure good ignition and more complete powder burn.

I roll crimp all of my high power and revolver cartridges. I taper crimp all Auto Pistol rounds and some boolits, but that is another subject entirely.

I use a Lee FCD to crimp my .223/5.56's for the simple reason that I don't trim these because they are once fired and each one of the cases that I fire will most likely never be found for a second trip thru the process since they are all fired in Semi-Autos and get sent winging into the surrounding area.

The Lee Die Collet Style Crimp Die copes with small variations in seating depth and case length better than roll crimping does, and locks the bullet in place very well. Once again, the amount of crimp is set up by the press stopping at the end of travel and the adjustment of the die governs the "amount" of crimp. The position of the crimp with respect to the case neck is built into the die and cannot be changed other than by the length of the case neck itself.

I set the bullet seating depth so that the top edge of the case mouth is about 2/3 the way up the cannelure, that way any small variations in the length of the cases or position of the cannelure on the bullets themselves will still result in a decent crimp somewhere in the cannelure. This is good for about +/- .005 variance. IN other words when producing 400 rounds per hour there is going to be some variation in the individual rounds, however all of them will be within a certain range that will function in all of my guns.

This is why I do what I do and is not meant to dissuade anyone from doing anything. Reloading can be made as simple or as complicated as the individual wants and that is one of the beauties of the hobby.

There's an **** for every seat.

Randy

[country gent]

I see several things with this tool. First off when working to a measured force applied then brass thickness, hardness is going to be a variable. Consistently annealed necks will produce good results range brass, brass fired uneven number of times, reformned brass will all vary in hardness / springiness. Necks varying in thickness also will have a varience working to force applied. Cases trimed, annealed, and consistent crimped to over center top of stroke should be very consistent as dead lentgh is the same everytime. When stamping parts in manufactuing the dies work to a depth of stroke very seldom force applied. I have found varying neck tension is better than crimps when possible. But this also requires consistent necks to work. On several of my match rifles neck tension can make the diffrence between xs and 10s.

[tomme boy]

Here is the other thing I can see on a progressive press. If you stop the stroke because of the 'Click" or whatever it does, what is going to happen to that crimp on a hard to size case. It will signal to stop before the case is all the way sized.

[seanhagerty]

Not designed for a progressive. Should only be used on a single stage. Look, I know a lot of you don't like the idea. I saw how it moved my groups around, and made smaller or larger group size based on the amount of crimp. Lee's Factory Crimp die literature talks about different crimps (light, medium of heavy). This gives you a way to quantify the amount of crimp.

Use it or dont use it. Like or don't. Try it or don't I look at it as just another tool in my toolbox.

[PatMarlin]

Here's the design for the Dillon 550 with an interesting video on groups vs. crimp pressure:

http://www.bulkreloadingsupply.com/dillon-universal-consistent-crimp-starter-kit-includes-dillon-adapter/

I want one.

[William Yanda]

It's getting clearer. Linear motion is limited by the torque wrench concept. Harbor Freight showed a choice of torque wrenches for about $12 in the flyer I got recently. shouldn't be a big step to adapt one of them to any single stage press.
Lot's of handy guys here.
Bill

[r1kk1]

Pat

I'm thinking of one too, not sure which press I would use at this point.

I noticed his website changed.

Take care

r1kk1

[mdi]

Mebbe I'm just dense, but I have used torque wrenches on everything from 6-40 nuts to 1 1/8-7 nuts and even a hydraulically operated wrench to tighten crane turrets. But with a torque wrench torque is applied in a perpendicular manner to the handle. The illustrations/pics show a torque wrench pointing to a press, and from the implications, the "torque handle" replaces the original press handle. I was wondering how the wrench can measure force in parallel to the wrench handle?

[PatMarlin]

I don't mean to be argumentative, but it's hard for my brain to understand how it couldn't measure the same forces used with the press handle. Now my brain is not the sharpest tool in the box, granted... :mrgreen:

With his adaptor, it's just like putting a torque wrench on a nut of the axis of the handle base.

[PatMarlin]

I personally think that this is a pointless device. Here's my reasons why.

If you set up your crimping die so that the press cams over center at the end of the travel, (which is what you should be doing anyway) it will insure that the case is going into the die the same amount everytime. In other words you are in essence setting up a mechanical stop. The case goes in to the die until the press "cams over center" after which the case actually comes back out a little. IN other words the motion of the press toggle links are thru a "radiused path" and the high point of that path is where the maximum travel of the press' ram is achieved. It is also where the press achieves it's maximum amount of force when sizing a case.



Randy

Yes but Randy, what if you don't want the same amount of pressure every time? The wrench will let you select the sweet spot pressure for a particular load.

Mind you folks, Randy invented the CNC machines I run in my shop, so he's a few levels above me in pay grade for sure... :mrgreen:

[W.R.Buchanan]

Here's the deal; Once the press handle goes over center the cartridge is coming back out of the die. When you hit the lower stop before the torque wrench lets off, you are past the point where all the work has been done to the case, and the tool is pointless.

I order to get this thing to work you would have to have your die adjusted down so that the torque wrench was letting off long before the handle cams over center, in which case you would rely on the accuracy of the torque wrench repeating it's let off to control the process.

This "could" benefit you if your cases were not consistently trimmed to length or there was significant variance in case wall thickness at the necks. In that case using the torque wrench would in fact produce a consistent crimp. But so would sorting your cases, and sorting your cases is much cheaper. I guess this could be of use for loading volumes of cases for shooting in a Garand or M14 for competition.

The problem arises when you don't stop pushing down on the torque wrench after it lets off. Any of you who have used a torque wrench when assembling an engine or other place where consistency of bolt torque actually matters, would have noticed that you can continue applying torque "After the tool lets off." It is a misuse of the tool, but it can be done, and this scenario would completely defeat the purpose of the tool in the first place.

When you set up a sizing die, it is standard practice to run the ram up until the shell holder contacts the bottom of the die and then add a little more so that you can feel the press handle "cam over center." This insures that the cartridge case has been driven as far into the die as possible which generally insures that the shoulder of the case has been set back enough so that the loaded cartridge will chamber. It also acts as a mechanical stop insuring that the case isn't driven into the die "Too far."

Similarly,,, When you set up your crimp die, the crimp needs to be set so that when the press cams over, the die yields the desired amount of crimp every time. You are essentially setting a mechanical stop. It doesn't matter how hard you push on the handle, once it contacts the stop you are done, and this setting will repeat every single time unless something moves. Then the only variations you will get in the crimp will be caused by case length or case wall thickness because the press is doing the same thing everytime..

You can control all of this with case preparation.

If you feel that this tool can benefit you then by all means use it. However this is a case where you need to 'understand all you know about the subject." Only then can you actually extract the benefit from this tool that you paid for. I'm sure they come with really good instructions, so reading over and over until you completely understand them might be a good place to start.

Randy

[PatMarlin]

I don't totally agree Randy, but that's OK, and I appreciate your input.

I think I fully understand the reloading process including cam over. I don't necessarily agree with all your comments on standard settings and use of dies, but I'm here to get opinions, and so far no one's commented on using the product.

[PatMarlin]

I sent an invite to Scott, the manufacturer to chime in here and give us more insight on his product.

Hopefully, he'll jump in sometime.

[W.R.Buchanan]

Pat: Call the company and ask them how many they've sold. They have been advertising in "Handloader Magazine" for several years, so you'd think if it was that great an idea that they would have sold a couple of thousand any way?

Randy

[PatMarlin]

I think we posted at the same time Randy, and hopefully he'll chime in.

I have always welcomed these discussions on my products as it gave me an opportunity to explain how they work.

Speaking of work, I'm in the shop hard at it. I stop and take a short breather by posting. All machines are running great and on spec. Life is good today.

[mdi]

A normal torque wrench measures how much "twist" is applied to a nut or bolt, or sumpin". The "twist" is being applied at a right angle to the handle. This "crimp measurement tool" is replacing the handle of the press (at least that is what the video shows) and applies a linear force, as a lever, on the press, but no "twist". That's all, I was just wondering how a tool designed to measure "twist" was adapted to a "leverage" pull measurement...

I'm done...

[PatMarlin]

You're askin' me..? ..:mrgreen:

Hey I just want to get rich quick and get to the range. I want to put Checkmaker dies on Shark Tank and QVC, and live happily after ever... :mrgreen:

Come on guys...

I don't want this thread to be so damn serious and no fun like so many threads have become these days. I don't mean any offense to anyone. I don't like to get into arguments.

[PatMarlin]

I would really like to hook up with Lori on Shark Tank, but you didn't hear that from me in case my girl asks.

[PatMarlin]

If you look at your handle movement on most presses- yes it's not a concentric twist at the top motion of the handle, but the linkage pivot point below, and the ram linkage pivot point does twist without lateral movement.

I just want to improve my cast shooting scores so I can beat Curmudgeon Bill at NCBS this year with my rifle... :mrgreen:

[seanhagerty]

... and so far no one's commented on using the product.

I have used it. I think it has made a difference in the accuracy of my loads I use the CC on. I particularly use it on my Precision AR loads. When I did my OCW load development, I found the best charge weight, then instead of varying OAL, I adjusted the crimp in 5 ft-lb increments. I can generally find one increment that will shoot significant smaller groups than the others by using this tool.

The way this works is, you adjust your lee factory crimp die significantly lower than normal so your press does not cam over (as earlier described). When you raise the round, you do not use the regular handle, you use the torque wrench. Set it to what ever ft-lb setting you desire, then raise the round until the wrench clicks over, indicating you have met the amount of force needed for the setting. Lower the round, and thats it.

I agree, one could find a torque wrench cheaper, and fashion an adapter. As I have said, this is another tool for your tool box, not for every round you load.

I posted on another site, the process I used during my AR load development. If it is allowable to post links to other sites, I will share it with you.

[Pepe Ray]

To one and all.
As you should have concluded from my first post, I have NOT used the device. Won't be able to until I fab an adapter to use on my Rock Chucker. That needs a rountoit. AAMOF the thing that prompted my purchase of the CC had more to do with swaging .22LRRF ammo using my Paco Kelly Nasty Nose tool. 'Though the tool was intended to be impact operated I have queasy feelings when I swing a mallet onto the tool. Also I'm not confident of my consistency of swing. The CC offers a great improvement ,safely, in my small game ammo.

Thanks Randy for the great explanation. I 'd never have the patience to type all that.
Pepe Ray

[dudel]

Not sure I get the point of the product. What are you trying to measure, and where are you trying to improve? This tool will measure the force put on the crimp. Which can be very different than bullet pull or neck tension (which I *think* is what you are trying to set consistently).

The tool does not account for case length, thickness of the neck brass, variations in projectile diameter, brass hardness, and a likely a number of other factors which affect neck tension. As Randy said, case prep is the key. To me, this tool ignores all these factors and tries to give you a "feel good" just because you are pulling the handle consistently.

What might be more useful, but would be destructive testing, would be something to measure the force required to move the projectile in a completed round. Ideally while pulling the projectile out; but possibly by trying to push it in. Of course the round is useless after testing (but so is one shot over a chronograph).

If the results were consistent, it would tell you that your components AND technique were consistent (as with a chromo). However, if the results are inconsistent (and assuming your case prep was meticulous), then perhaps your technique is flawed. Sometimes technique is to blame for wide variations in powder drop for example.

[PatMarlin]

I never assumed using this product means one would ignore all the details in case prep.

I plan as I always do to continue with my case prep and reloading, but I think the tool may add to consistency and repeatability of some of these functions I use in reloading. One being LEE factory crimp dies which I never cam over.

Thanks for your post Sean. Please post a link to your AR work.

So I will post findings if I buy one.

[WallyM3]

Not as precise, I suppose, but Wally's Torque Limiter, Mk XXXVII works for me:

101197

Still, I'm a tool junkie, so page bookmarked.

[PatMarlin]

Sean just sent me a link on his shooting and all I can say is WOW...!

Please post the link Sean.

I will definitely use this handle with my Lee factory crimp dies.

[seanhagerty]

http://ar15armory.com/forums/topic/121627-load-development-win/?hl=crimp

If this is against the forum rules, please delete this post. I checked the rules and could not find anything that spoke to this.

Sean

[W.R.Buchanan]

The way a torque wrench works is.... (Not referring to an old torque wrench with a pointer, but a more modern release type Torque Wrench.)

There is a ball socket,,,, IE: a round piece with a hole in it, inside a tube.. The tube fits over the round piece and is larger than the OD of the round piece so there is plenty of clearance.

The tube is the handle of the wrench.

The round piece is the part that transmits the torque to whatever you are twisting,,, however that piece could also just go into a hole in something and that force would be transmitted to that piece. It doesn't have to turn something, It can simply apply a force in a direction. Like the "crimp limiter tool" we are discussing.

Further down the round piece is a cross pin which the tube/handle pivots on, and it will rotate around that pin to the limits of what the round piece inside the tube will allow. Usually there is only a few degrees of travel allowed.

There is a Ball Bearing that is preloaded with a large spring into the hole in the round piece. How much it is preloaded is what you have set the wrench to when you adjusted the torque wrench.

When the torque is met, the ball pops out of the hole and the tube is allowed to go to it's limit. (only a few degrees off center.)

When you release the handle the ball pops back into the hole, and the handle centers up back in it's starting position,,, and you start over.

I have made hundreds of these devices in my shop.

I hope explanation clarifies how this type of torque wrench works. It is pretty simple.

Randy

[Tuckerp229]

Greetings all. After tracing the sudden activity from Castboolits through Google analytics I decided to make myself available to answer any questions you may have. I am the inventor, patent holder, and manufacturer of the Consistent Crimp. Ask away.


PS. Greetings Sean, it has been a long time!

[seanhagerty]

Good day sir. It has been a day or three.

I stand corrected, I saw there is a CC set up for the dillon. I guess I should pay attention before I talk.

Sean


Greetings all. After tracing the sudden activity from Castboolits through Google analytics I decided to make myself available to answer any questions you may have. I am the inventor, patent holder, and manufacturer of the Consistent Crimp. Ask away.


PS. Greetings Sean, it has been a long time!

[Tuckerp229]

A few questions and assertions made on page one:

"Ubetcha"
I believe Titan Reloading has something similar on their website. I think it's a torque wrench made to fit the press handle.

Titan is one of our dealers. He does a great job over the span of his whole product line, check him out! What he offers is the Consistent Crimp. The CC utilizes tried and true technology. Most of us have a micro click torque wrench in our tool box and trust it completely. While the CC uses this same technology, it is a bit special in two ways:
1. You may note that torque wrench companies, (Sears, Snap On, Maco), seek to force you into the purchase of multiple wrenches to span the probable usage range. Ex: 1-25Ftlbs and 25-75 ftlbs, and so on. When we had these wrenches manufactured we had them re calibrated to span the entire range needed for load development for all civilian calibers, 218 Bee thro' the mighty 50BMG. To scientifically arrive at the optimal crimping force, you need the full input range of 5-75 ft lbs. The CC does this with ONE torque wrench not two wrenches, thus lowering the cost to the reloader.
2. We changed the business end of the torque wrench because we are "levering not twisting". The CC becomes an "active" handle that turns your press into a measuring device. (Quite simply, if one controls the input force, he controls the output force-(after the mechanical advantage of the press)). Our quick release adapter design also allows the reloader to use the CC on multiple presses by the small addition of adapters which may be purchased separately for very little money. Additionally, this quick release adapter allows the reloader to eliminate the "swing weight" of the CC when not crimping or neck sizing.

Yes, one can "do this this at home", but I assure you it will cost you more money, time, and hassle scaring up the parts, torque wrenches and machinist friend. The CC comes ready to use for under 100 bucks with one starter adapter of your choice. In the case of the Lee presses the "Dual Handle Conversion kit is also included."

The main point is that for the first time, the reloader is able to end the scientific process of reloading....with science. The downrange results are quite amazing.

I hope this clears things up a bit.

[WallyM3]

In thinking this through, it seems to me that it wouldn't matter at all whether or not the press was a so called "cam-over" or not. The trigger is a torque level irrespective of the design of the press.

I realize that's a statement, but I'm really looking for is confirmation or refutation.

[Tuckerp229]

Yanda:
Not sure I understand the concept. Could the same thing be accomplished by pulling on the handle with a spring calibrated appropriately? One could buy a lot of springs for $100.

I am not sure what you mean exactly, but the way people question new ideas, I thing spring tension and position would be doubted by many. Plus to properly optimize a load recipe, one must test crimping force in a similar way to testing powder...incrementally. The Micro Clcik torque wrench makes these incremental adjustments a breeze.

As for the cost, I can appreciate the value of 100.00- I still pick up pennies I find on the ground. Torque wrench retail; prices run from 39.95 for some very dubious Harbor Freight products to $350-500 hundred from Snap On. The CC is very high quality, and there is only one step between manufacture and retail which keeps the price down, adjustment range calibrated so that one torque wrench is all the reloader needs for all civilian calibers and finally the quick release adapter to mount it to your press is included.

You may even discover that that box of 5k bullets you shelved 3 years ago because your "gun wouldn't group them", will suddenly become tack drivers when the optimal crimp force has been discovered. This alone would offset the cost of a new tool for you.

[Pepe Ray]

Thank you Tuckerp229.
Do you have an answer to my problem of using the CC with an RCBS Rock Chucker?
Pepe Ray

[PatMarlin]

Thanks for stopping by Tucker.

Like your product. Hopefully we will generate more interest for you here and help accuracy for cast shooters.

Pat


Greetings all. After tracing the sudden activity from Castboolits through Google analytics I decided to make myself available to answer any questions you may have. I am the inventor, patent holder, and manufacturer of the Consistent Crimp. Ask away.


PS. Greetings Sean, it has been a long time!

[PatMarlin]

In thinking this through, it seems to me that it wouldn't matter at all whether or not the press was a so called "cam-over" or not. The trigger is a torque level irrespective of the design of the press.

I realize that's a statement, but I'm really looking for is confirmation or refutation.

I think that once your dies are set to cam-over, the torque measurement will not help. Dies have already done their job, and past the point of setting the press handle force/pressure. Camover is in the setting of your dies. Any press can be set so dies camover.

Maybe I can get a CC for my birthday. Got to start dropping hints around... lol :mrgreen:

[Tuckerp229]

In thinking this through, it seems to me that it wouldn't matter at all whether or not the press was a so called "cam-over" or not. The trigger is a torque level irrespective of the design of the press.

I realize that's a statement, but I'm really looking for is confirmation or refutation.

you may notice when inspecting a Lee press, that they have eliminated the "overcam". In a conversation I had with Mr. Lee himself, he told me he doesn't believe overcam capability is necessary and in fact causes a great deal of reloader pain/ trouble. An engineer could better describe the linakge set up of modern double hinged press but in layman's terms, the mechanical advantage reaches theoretical infinity after the cam over. This means that each thousands of ram movement represents 100's maybe thousands of pounds of force acting on what ever is between it and the press bridge. This means that crimping in the cam over stage is completely a guess.

In a world where crimping force will never exceed 365 ft lbs, (after the mechanical advantage of the press), over cam power is simply not needed nor advisable.

By engaging the crimping die before cam over one can be in control of the output after the mechanical advantage by virtue of controlling the input force with the torque wrench. By combining the CC with a Lee Factory Crimp die one maximizes control over the crimping process. The LFCD is in fact why this tool was "born" After purchasing my first FCD I could watch the "work",(scientific def.) being done by the collets as they moved from relaxed to closed, (by the way more work is done after they close as well). I knew a range of "work" was being done here but "how much work". It was odd to me that we as reloaders are asked to be scientific about every step of the reloading process until crimping. At this point we are instructed by the die companies to "put a good crimp on it." What pray tell is a "good crimp" and if I discovered, how could it be returned to after a die swap or a die adjustment? I looked for a way, any way to measure this force knowing that if I could measure it, I could test it at the range just like with grains of powder. This is how we optimize grains of powder for our final load recipe. The CC allows one to optimize crimping force. Once discovered this force can be returned to at will in seconds.

[Tuckerp229]

Interesting idea but out of my price range right now.
see it for folks like benchrest shooters


I love this one. Benchresters will not even talk to me. Apparently they know it all already. You may find it noteworthy that I recommend to all of my CC owners to always use zero crimp for the first row of reloads in a 50 round tray. This I consider the "placebo" group. I have yet to have anyone claim that "zero crimp" out performed some amount of crimp.
A chemical engineer I spoke with at a Gun show explained to me this was true because the crimp...any crimp when compared to zero crimp tends to hold the bullet in the case until a more uniform case pressure after ignition builds up. The bullets are "released from the case at a more uniform pressure and micro second.

Also keep in mind that the Benchrester often used the lands as his "crimp" and they never unload their weapon, they load one and fire one. The rest of us that make up the 98 percent of shooters and hunters often load and unload while hunting or at least load multiple rounds in our gun. Both events can cause bullet/ OAL changes that are not good for safety or accuracy. Remember, all commercial ammo is crimped for a reason. They happen to have million dollar automated machined to dial in what ever crimping force they desire for a given load.

The reality is that the CC is very useful for the average John Q. Reloader who must pull the best results out of less or medium priced components. You will acheive aboce average results even from below average components.

[Tuckerp229]

Thank you Tuckerp229.
Do you have an answer to my problem of using the CC with an RCBS Rock Chucker?
Pepe Ray


My first answer seems to have repeated a different answer to Pat. Here we go again.

Measure your RCBS cast ID where the handle enters the cast linkage. if it is 5/8's click here:

http://www.bulkreloadingsupply.com/rcbs-style-2-consistent-crimp-handle-starter-kit-fits-the-turret-and-reloaders-special-5-press-models-includes-the-rcbs-style-2-adapter/

By the way the CC may be mounted left or right on any press that has or is converted by us to have two handles.

if is 9/16's click here:

http://www.bulkreloadingsupply.com/rcbs-style-2-consistent-crimp-handle-starter-kit-fits-the-turret-and-reloaders-special-5-press-models-includes-the-rcbs-style-2-adapter/

[Tuckerp229]

Lee make one. Another gimmick if you ask me.

Well I respectfully disagree that being able to measure instead of guessing is a "gimmick." I view this in the category of "knowledge is power", akin to being able to measure grains of powder.

As for Lee, Mr John Lee actually contacted me personally to inform me of two things:
1. I quote because it was funny: "Sonny, you are missing half of your audience." He then digressed: saying that "he makes the best collet neck sizing die in the world and he prescribes 25 ft lbs of force into the handle to achieve the best neck tension." He then told me "you have the only tool that he knows of that will do just that."
2. Then he stated matter of factly that I should sell his Lee products.

[seanhagerty]

Tucker's product has helped me workup several loads. I would say he has the science all figured out. I just get to use the fruit of his labor.

Here is a link to another load workup I did using the CC. http://ar15armory.com/forums/topic/96867-consistent-crimp-load-work-up/?hl=crimp

The pictures are lost somewhere, but the data is all there.

Sean

[WallyM3]

"I think that once your dies are set to cam-over, the torque measurement will not help. Dies have already done their job, and past the point of setting the press handle force/pressure. Camover is in the setting of your dies. Any press can be set so dies camover."

I see your point.

Whether intended or not, my Co:Ax's travel stopped at TDC as it came from the factory due to the limit of travel in the linkage. I suspected it in use and checked it with an indicator...I'll be.... My Lyman Jr. shows the same limit stop (at least the one with the 2 piece linkage. So there is at least a small basis for my musings, though upon reflection, it seems that, in any case, the torque handle would be set to break before TDC.

I'm just trying to envision the mechanics involved. I must admit, I'm interested in the notion.

[Love Life]

very interesting indeed.

[Pepe Ray]

Tuckerp229;
Thank you for responding. Evidently you don't know what a "Rock Chucker Press" is.
Your response does make it clear that I'm looking for a solution in the wrong place.
I will find a way to attach the CC to my press because I understand its worth. Since RCBS isn't interested in assisting me I'll need to void any warranty in my press and rely on the skill of my local machinest.
Thanks again for responding.
Pepe Ray

[Tuckerp229]

Tuckerp229;
Thank you for responding. Evidently you don't know what a "Rock Chucker Press" is.
Your response does make it clear that I'm looking for a solution in the wrong place.
I will find a way to attach the CC to my press because I understand its worth. Since RCBS isn't interested in assisting me I'll need to void any warranty in my press and rely on the skill of my local machinest.
Thanks again for responding.
Pepe Ray

Now you really have my interest. Are you able to post a picture of you press?

[Pepe Ray]

Tuckerp;
Here is a link to the only picture I found .
All others are of the RC Supreme.
javascript:;javascript:;Nope Excuse my PC ignorance.
Will try again.
Pepe Ray
http://www.ebay.com/itm/RCBS-Rock-Chucker-Reloading-Press/121310383359?_trksid=p2045573.c100033.m2042&_trkp

[WallyM3]

Pepe, does it look like this:
101506

or this? (far one)

101508

[Doc Highwall]

Mine look like the one that Pepe posted or the first picture that WallyM3 posted but my handles look more like bicycle handle bar grips with the finger grooves.

[WallyM3]

Doc, apologies for not mentioning that virtually none of my presses have their original handles. The "handlebar (great characterization, BTW)" grip was used during my RC press's time (1972-3), but I didn't find it comfortable in use.

Pepe's posting is of a recent RC with the glossy (I think they call that finish "dormant" in the powder coating trade) finish.

So, you can't rely on pics of my handles to tell anything but that I've been out in the shop turning O-1.

The A2 in the second photo still retains its original handle simply because I haven't gotten to it yet.

[Tuckerp229]

Tuckerp;
Here is a link to the only picture I found .
All others are of the RC Supreme.
javascript:;javascript:;Nope Excuse my PC ignorance.
Will try again.
Pepe Ray
http://www.ebay.com/itm/RCBS-Rock-Chucker-Reloading-Press/121310383359?_trksid=p2045573.c100033.m2042&_trkp

What you have pictured is a RockChucker II. This picture also shows this name cast into the press frame on the left side. The handle shaft of the RockChucker II is a 5/8's diameter. This means you would use the RCBS Style One adapter. In other words we can fit your press, no fuss, no muss. Here is the link:http://www.bulkreloadingsupply.com/rcbs-style-1-consistent-crimp-handle-starter-kit-style-fits-the-rockchucker-i-ii-rockchucker-supreme-ammomaster-i-ii/

As a side note: Through the many years, RCBS has really only used two sizes, 5/8's and 9/16's handle OD. Most are threaded, some old models are not. We we include an extra lock nut with all RCBS adapters anyway. This allows for the mounting and lock down of the quick release adapter anyway, using one nut on top of the cast and one below effectively "sandwiching" the casting linkage between the nuts.

If your goal is to have a new linkage piece machined or cast to allow for a right and left handle position, I can assure you that the time, hassle and expense of creating this new "one off" part will far out out way the cost of buying a second press. Let me suggest you spend your money a different way and while you save some money, you will avoid the hassles for free. I have found having an extra press to be invaluable for convenience and speed. From our testing, a reloader will never exceed 365 ft lbs of force ....after the mechanical advantage of the press linkage-(in other words at the ram head, to crimp or neck size). This "could" be done with a plastic framed press...which of course no-one would buy. The point being , one does not need a heavy duty press-(read expensive), to crimp or neck size.

There is a "but".... an accurate press is important. Which brings me to the new Breech Lock Technology from Lee or the Lock and Load Tech' from Hornady. Lee's is the least expensive being lower than $75.00 which usually is within the "wife allowed" discretionary buying power of most reloaders.;-) This press is shown here:http://www.bulkreloadingsupply.com/breech-lock-challenger-press
Breech Lock tech' while being very fast and convenient for die swaps, more importantly eliminates two nagging variables,

1. depth variance
2. "radial tolerance"

Each time a die swap is made on a traditional press, there is the potential for variance in die "depth" and the lesser known "radial tolerance." This is the "slop" between the male die threads and the female press head nut threads, (without this tolerance/slop, nuts and bolts would not thread together). Your die threads actually "float" within this thread tolerance before you lock it down. This "float" represents "radial variance" which can and will affect your reloads. When cost assessing, keep in mind a separate bushing must be purchased for each die.

I hope this helps.

[Pepe Ray]

Gentlemen all, thank you for taking an interest in my plight. For the most part all have been productive and I'll surely benefit from this.

Doc was correct on all counts. Wally's first (top) picture was a dead ringer for my press. There is NO RC II cast in it anywhere. Only RC bracketed with hyphens and powder coated. Also the handle is threaded only far enough to accommodate the locking nut.
I figure that by extending the threads on the handle I'll have room to add a piece of 1/4" steel plate with appropriate mods to fab a CC attachment.

Of the several adapters offered by Titan nothing will work without mods. I think your collective assistance will get me through this.
Thanks all.
Pepe Ray

[shoebox56]

Over time does the Consist Crimp require recalibration? If so what is required to do so? Thanks.

[Tuckerp229]

Over time does the Consist Crimp require recalibration? If so what is required to do so? Thanks.

Shoebox, All torque wrenches can "wear" and /or suffer from shop abuse. I think we could say that a CC used at the reloading bench will probable not or never see the floor, sand, oil etc... that an auto mechanic's tools see every day. Various mechanical disciplines, industries have specific "recalibration" rules for businesses regarding such things. I believe they are governed by "ISO 9000-2014" or something like that. I know that airplane mechanics are specifically required to have their torque wrenches "certified" on a periodic schedule. What percentage of them actually need adjustment is another question.

There are companies in most every large city and of course on the internet one could that will certify and if necessary, adjust a torque wrench should the need arise.