Help with reloading 45 Colt with Pyrodex

[mr_whaley]

Hi, I've been scouring the internet for days and found myself referred here. Maybe some of you can help me or offer some advice. My father just retired and one of the hobbies he's been putting off for years is reloading. With the price of ammo these days, the only way to afford to shoot is to reload. We've both enjoyed target shooting and hunting together for years, but we are both new at this.
Long story short, I have a 1858 Remington replica (the Pietta model, steel frame of course) with an R&D conversion cylinder. I'm looking to reload 45 Colt with black powder. I understand you can only fire cowboy loads with the R&D, 850 FPS or less. I have Pyrodex P, FFFG on hand along with some Winchester Magnum pistol primers. I also have a Lee Precision 45 Colt Loader. Brass is on the way, and the local gun store stocks a small selection of 45 lead bullets.
With what I have on hand, can anyone make some suggestions as to how load my own cowboy ammo? I'd appreciate any help with bullet selection or powder weight. (Yes, I do know black powder and substitutes are measured by volume and not weight.) The data I've been able to find so far isn't helping me keep the FPS to 850 or below.
Thanks in advance!

[mr_whaley]

Oh, forgot to add: 8 inch barrel on the 1858 replica.

[stephenj]

Fill the case up to where the base of the bullet will be ... seat the bullet and enjoy .
Its realy that simple with bp and bp subsitutes .

[johnson1942]

stepheni is correct in his advice. be aware that pyrodex is very very corrosive, i believe far more than black powder. make sure you really clean that gun when your done.

[Grapeshot]

Pyrodex is always getting a bad rap. It sucks moisture out of the air after it is fired and, yes, it will rust up your firearms. However, like my drill sergeant always preached, clean your weapon after you finish shooting. With Pyrodex it is best to use HOT water and liquid detergent. After you dry the firearm, lube and coat with Ballistol or any other good gun oil. Drop your fired cases into a jug with Hotwater/Detergent mix with a shot of white vinegar; shake vigorously and drain. Add clean water and rinse two or three times and lay out on a paper towels to dry. Once dry, drop in tumbler and tumble in crushed walnut with whatever polishing agent you want to use and tumble until nice and bright.

Most important is that Pyrodex likes to be compressed. Not like fill the case to the top and seat bullet. Compression should be no less than 1/8th inch and no more than 1/4 inch. Bullets should be soft; not the hard cast commercial type. Notice that the 1858 in its percussion mode uses pure lead balls and conical slugs, there is a reason for that.

I had an A.Uberti that I fitted a Conversion Cylinder to and found that I needed to use 165 grain cast bullets to get the revolver to shoot anywhere near point of aim. The 250 grain bullets were hitting around 12 inches high and the 185 grain bullets were hitting around 6 - 7 inches high. The 165 bullet hit 2 inches high. I was considering using just a round ball on top of the powder charge and the mouth crimped over the ogive on the ball. I also stopped using .45 Colt brass and began using .45 Schofield sized brass; these worked a whole lot better with a black powder or Pyrodex charge.

[bigted]

in my experience ... you will not be able to cram enough real blackpowder in the case and still seat your projectile to fit in the cylinder to do harm to your revolver [considering it is in fact a steel frame revolver]. the pressure developed is not going to be excessive using real black powder in F size above 4F. never use the 4F size as this will give excessive fouling as well as an energetic accuracy dissolving slam that is not needed nor advisable.

I use either cartridge or 2F powder from GOEX and it does very well in my '60' with a conversion cylinder. I also use the colt cases as I like the chamber filling brass along with not having to use those little schofield cases. they work ok but I like the longer cases for my uses.

don't know about the Pyrodex. I have some but I have only used it in my muzzleloaders and to be honest ... it is much more work to ensure a clean firearm with then the real deal. it is possible to clean and do a correct job of ... however ... blackpowder is way easier to clean up after and once it is clean ... it is clean! with the Pyrodex I find that I need to clean a couple hours later and re oil ... then the next day if I check the bore ... I find rust beginning to develop. my real blackpowder cleaning is simple with my ballistol water mix and swabbing with 2 or 3 patch's [sometimes this takes a bit longer and more patch's when I develop a bit of leading that needs scrubbed out] ... dry the bore completely ... oil with rem oil and put away. I have checked and rechecked these firearms shot with real blackpowder and after a thorough cleaning and oiling ... they never develop rust ever ... I check periodically and walla ... if cleaned proper after the shooting ... and properly oiled ... no rust nor fouling later.

at any rate I doubt that the above system of loading would ever give anything but a good load in your revolver ... using real black ... or ... your Pyrodex. volume will be tha same with either powder type.

[mr_whaley]

Thanks for the advice, everyone. I really appreciate the help.

[geargnasher]

Keep an eye out for gas-cutting of the topstrap with Pyrodex.

Gear

[bigted]

gear ... is this a thing to watch out for in the Remington or just general in any top strap revolver? my ruger has no such cutting happening on the top strap is the reason for the question.

[doc1876]

bigted, all revolvers get a gas cutting, just bp are worse, due to most lack of cleaning in this elusive place, and the high degree of flame coming from the cylinder. You should not have any real problems with it unless you are 12, and plan on living to about 125 while shooting it 5x a month.

[junkbug]

I tried that years ago with a Navy Arms Schofield replica I have, in 44-40. I used both Hornady dry lubed swaged bullets and commercial cast bullets with standard lube, and Pyrodex Pistol powder.

I was not satisfying. The revolver fouled very quickly, and was soon heavily leaded also.

To make a long story short, make sure your cast boolits have a proper black powder quality lube. Eventually, just to shoot up the remaining ammo I had, I put Crisco in front of the loaded cartridges, in the cylinder, before I snapped the revolver shut, just like a cap and ball revolver. That helped a lot. One day, I will get a proper mold for a 44-40, and load some up again with some back powder, and pyrodex, but will make sure the lube is beeswax and olive oil.

[Wayne Smith]

Junkbug, there is a reason why S&W didn't chamber their revolvers for the 44-40 and 45 Colt and Uberti did. Uberti extended the cylinder and left out a shield that S&W had in theirs that protected the cylinder pin from fouling. You will always have a problem shooting the Uberti with BP over the originals.

[SSGOldfart]

Humm good timing on this thread I just got 3 pounds of pyrodex given to me thinking I might now finish that 45 ML pistol I started a few years ago...

[Nobade]

Junkbug, there is a reason why S&W didn't chamber their revolvers for the 44-40 and 45 Colt and Uberti did. Uberti extended the cylinder and left out a shield that S&W had in theirs that protected the cylinder pin from fouling. You will always have a problem shooting the Uberti with BP over the originals.

This is exactly why I don't own one of those revolvers. I really want one, but they went and messed up the design so maybe someday I'll have the bucks for an original but until then I won't go there.

Dick Dastardly says his boolits will work with them, since they carry so much lube, but I'll still hold out. Funny thing too, they make those guns to handle 45 Colt since the correct length brass wasn't available. Now you can get the brass but the gun's already designed and they're not going to change it.

-Nobade

[Dan Cash]

I have the same Uberti Schofield and have tried black powder in it. Using my lube and proper fitting bullets, leading was not a problem but the cylinder pin siezed up after a dozen rounds. Only fix I can see for it is to sleeve the barrel and create a longer stub to go with a shortened cylinder that has the flash ring machined in to it. BP works lots better in my 25-5 than the Schofield