Barrel Lenght

[smokemjoe]

I have a 40 cal., x 1-48 twist round gr. rifle barrel that is 1 in. X 36 long, Its to heavy , I am making a 1/2 stock gun, Whats the shorts I can cut it down to before I lose accurtize. Thanks- Joe

[Rattus58]

Oh... maybe 2 or 3 inches...... Barrel length doesn't equate to accuracy in ways we would normally consider. It equates to stability; ability to see the front sight for us older guys, sight plane etc.

Accuracy is going to come from your barrel condition and the load you develop more than barrel length, which might address velocity more than accuracy.

If I was going to experiment with cutting down a barrel, I'd mount it, shoulder it and if not comfortable, cut it some, re-mount it, see if its comfortable, and continue on down the barrel. I've had one custom barrel made for a T/C I had cut to 22" and I've had a 20" White as well as a 22" White 98. These shorter barrels are just as accurate as is any longer barrel by virtue of the barrel itself and your load.

Whatever is comfortable... or as we'd say here in the monsoons we're experiencing right now.... whatever floats your boat.... :grin:

Aloha... :cool:

[northmn]

Most 40's do well at 7/8 inch or 13/16. If you are reproducing an original copy some were up to 1 1/8They were heavy. Balance is just as important as weight. Often muzzle loaders are quite front heavy and tend to be harder to hold. I knew one person that made and sold a few who would drill and put lead under the butt-plate to get them to hold better. I never did that but often used heavier design and hardware behind the lock. As Rattus58 stated you won't lose accuracy cut down to any reasonable length, but you do tend to lose style. Some sawed off muzzle loaders have a definite lack of aesthetics which may or may not bother you. I never liked real heavy guns for competition as they wore me out. But I did gain a lot by balancing them as there is less effort in holding a balanced firearm. I am talking about offhand guns. Before you get too ambitious with the hacksaw look at balance. You likely need both.

Northmn

[Guido4198]

You can probably go as low as 28" and still have a good shooter. Personally...I'd try real hard not to go less than 32". If the rifle still felt muzzle-heavy, I'd add weight in the butt to balance her out. As to overall weight...I've never found the change in total weight due to a few inches of bbl. length (more or less) to be significant...but the change is balance definitely is.

[Rattus58]

Gentlemen.... what is your take on accuracy with shorter barrel lengths... ?

Aloha... :cool:

[mooman76]

I used to think the longer the barrel the better a gun would shoot but I've come around to thinking that there is a lot more to it, Some guns shoot better with shorter barrels. There are just allotof variables to what makes a gun a shooter!

[Scrounger]

The accuracy is in the barrel. The length of the barrel chosen is a function of other factors.

1. Shooters who use iron sights prefer longer barrels because that gives them a longer sight radius and allows THEM to aim better.

2. Bench rest shooters prefer shorter barrels because the bullet leaves the barrel quicker before recoil has much effect on it.

3. Varmint hunters prefer longer barrels because they want as much velocity as possible to help trajectory at longer ranges.

I'm sure there are other reasons.

[dubber123]

Unfortunately you won't be able to tell for sure how it will shoot until you have shortened it. I have a 21" barreled .54 cal side lock that averages 3/4" at 50 yards with a T/C Maxi-ball for 3 shots, starting with a clean barrel. Considering the recoil, and the fat bead up front, I think thats excellent. Cutting yours might change nothing, make a tack driver, or a real ***, and it is awful hard to put that barrel material back on if it goes poorly!

[mooman76]

I had a CVA with a 24" barrel.Allot of guys made fun of me at the club until they saw it shoot. It was like a tack driver with those Lee REAL's!

[northmn]

To me barrel length is part aesthics in a muzzle loader such that I do not like to shorten them too much. Barrel length will affect velocity to some degree, more than in a smokeless gun. Considering the uses for a 40, I doubt if it would matter. They wil definitely harvest deer, but would not be my choice for that purpose. Acccuracy is dependent upon twist and to some extent barrel stiffness. The 13/16 45's and the 7/8 50's have a reputation of not liking the heavier loads in longer barrel guns. Shorten them and they stiffen up a little. A one inch barrel is plenty stiff. I have seen top pistol shooters nail the ten ring at 50 yards pretty regular. Their misses are not due to the pistols. We are dealing with muzzleloaders and often get confused with cartridge concerns and techniques. Yours does not take a cartridge such that you are not limited in case capacity and other considerations. I cannot remember seeing a decent muzzleloading barrel (ie good rifling and good bore) that cannot be made to shoot. I always liked smaller sharges of 3-f in my 40 as it burns cleaner and performs better than 2-f. Your 40 barrel sounds like a Green Mountain with its 48" twist as is mine. Mine is 42 inches long 13/16 and shoots quite well with anything between 30 and 50 grains of powder and a 395 ball. As a rule I have found smaller bores a little more fussy than the 50's and larger but a lot of fun. Good shooting have fun.

Northmn

[waksupi]

I believe Forsyth, in his book, "The Sporting Rifle and It's Projectiles", says you can go down to 24 inches and maintain all the performance you need. I will try to remember to locate my copy, and check to be sure.

[Ricochet]

The Dixie Gun Works catalog used to have a table of velocities with the old .40 caliber Dixie Pennsylvania Rifle cut down progressively from 40" to 12" or so. Didn't lose much velocity till it got really short.

[JeffinNZ]

I took my .40cal on my percussion from 39 down to 33 and it shoots just the same. Cloverleaf. Oh, and the velocities went UP. No bull. Light charges (25-35gr) went up and the top end charges (40-45gr) stayed the same. Go fiure. Swiss powder by the way.

The single most important factor is that YOU shoot well with a rifle that fits YOU and YOU have confidence in the rig and your ability to shoot it.

What happens on the days that you don't feel 100% about your ability? You shoot less than 100%.

Of course you could consider putting some lead in the butt to move the point of balance backwards too.

[madcaster]

I know it's not a .40,but the T/C Cherokee has a 24" barrel and shoot good.There's just SO MANY variables...

[miestro_jerry]

I shoot a T/C Grey Hawk and a CVA Wold Magnum, too vastly different front stuffers, both shoot well. barrel length is more a weight and accuracy issue. Which shoots better, the M16 or a Model 70 in 223? Thats really up to the shooter.

Jerry

[mazo kid]

Joe, you don't say which kind of rifle you will be building, but have you considered making an octagon to round barrel of it? That should get rid of some up front weight for you. Emery

[Rattus58]

I took my .40cal on my percussion from 39 down to 33 and it shoots just the same. Cloverleaf. Oh, and the velocities went UP. No bull. Light charges (25-35gr) went up and the top end charges (40-45gr) stayed the same. Go fiure. Swiss powder by the way.

The single most important factor is that YOU shoot well with a rifle that fits YOU and YOU have confidence in the rig and your ability to shoot it.

What happens on the days that you don't feel 100% about your ability? You shoot less than 100%.

Of course you could consider putting some lead in the butt to move the point of balance backwards too.

Velocities on a shorter barrel with light charges easily can go up if the powder is consumed well within the barrel, a longer barrel with spent charges will drag the bullet till it exits, a shorter one sets it free.... :)

Heavier charges have extra weight to start with and may take longer to consume, so the shorter barrel in your case might have been cut just long enough to even things out some.

Aloha... :cool:

[smokemjoe]

Okey Fellows: Here is what I done. I made a Lemans 1/2 stocl. Perc. 1 in barrel,40 Cal. with deep round groove rifleing. I called Mark de hass whom made the barrel.He said cut it to 30 in. and wouldnt lose anything, Well I have made 35 rifles now all with 42 and mostly 48 in. barrels in 40 cal x 3/4 in barrels in my stlye of Souhtern Mt. rifles using Bill Large and de hass barrels, I never felt so sick when I put it back in the stock and it looked so short.But it is still heavy and the balance is nice, 40 Cal. I have shot a good number of deer with them. Hit them in a good vital zone and let them lay down or shoot between the eyes. I have taken many squirrrels with the 40 cal. all head shots, but last winter made a 30 cal. for hunting squirrels. Thanks for the help. Joe

[JeffinNZ]

I dropped this little girl with my .40cal RB percussion Wesson the other week.

http://nzrifle.angelfire.com/images/xmas_shoot_07/target_hair.jpg

[JeffinNZ]

I dropped this little girl with my .40cal RB percussion Wesson the other week.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v505/JeffinNZ/Shooting%20stuff/Hare.jpg

[northmn]

Lot of folks like the 40 it seems. I have used a lot of small bores in both competitions and hunting. Started out with the 32 and moved to the 40 for targets. On small game, even with the lighter charges of 15 grains, you best shoot them in the head as the 32 hits about like a 22 mag hollowpoint. Generally accuracy was best with about 20 grains. The 32 was a fun little gun but really failed at longer ranges for targets, especially with any wind. The 40 was a lot better for targets and just as good on small game and better on some of the larger critters. However, based on my experiences, were I for some reason to pick an all around bore for small game, competitions and deer, it would be the 45 as it will hold up better at 100 yards, doesnt blow up a squirrel more than the 32 and is fair on deer. I do not like to head shoot deer as you can blow their jaw off and never find them, yet they will die slow. I also like a good blood trail as it can be a SOB to track one otherwise, I know because I have done so. Also if you look at the ballistics of any round ball you will see that they lose a lot downrange fairly quickly, even at 50 yards. I have shot a lot of deer in my past 40+ years of hunting them with a lot of different calibers and even longbows and recurves. I will be the first to admit that you really do not need a large gun to bring them down, but a little bigger than needed is better than a little less. That is why I grab the 50 percussion or 54 flintlock when hunting deer and not my 40. By the way Jeff, what do those rabbits weigh, as that is either a darn small rifle or a big rabbit?

Northmn

[Rattus58]

I have a neato little 40 as well. Very accurate and virtually no recoil.

Aloha... :cool:

[piwo]

By the way Jeff, what do those rabbits weigh, as that is either a darn small rifle or a big rabbit?


She is a big girl isn't she?? I don't know about New Zealand, but the rabbits I saw in the Czech Republic were the size of freakin beagles. I don't know if dogs would chase em!

Little exaggeration of course, but biggest darn rabbit/hares I'd ever seen! :Fire:

[JeffinNZ]

I reckon she would have been a good 10lb.

It's a European hare and yes, prolly about the size of a "freaking beagle". :-D

They are great sport and much smarter than bunnies.