Long range boolit performance.

[Catshooter]

Interesting the people you can connect up with the internet that you never would have met before it.

One of our members lives a few hundred miles from me in North Dakota. Let's call him J if he wants to chime in he can.

He and some friends like to shoot long range and they have the space to do so. They've been doing it for quite some time and have even taken videos. I have done a little, not much really, just enough to know that it can be done and that Elmer wasn't lying.

Under the right conditions, say the sun behind you and low you can see the light reflecting from the base of the boolit/bullet. It helps if it's jacketed. I first saw this in the late seventies. Forty four magnum with jacketed and the sun low behind me. The base of the bullet shined like crazy and was very easy to see.

Well J and friends also saw their bullets in flight but they were smarter than me and videoed them.

The results are very interesting. Some fly straight and true out past 500 yards. Some veer off to the side after 100 yards, some make it further before veering. Is this what a golfer calls slicing? :)

So some projectiles that are touted as 'long range' aren't. And some that you'd think would hardly make 50 yards are stable as all get out. They've had a hard time really pining down a formula of what works and what doesn't but they've figured out a few things. Winds from any direction really magnify any issues with the bullet.

Anyway here's a pic J sent me showing five examples of the RCBS 270 SAA boolit.

http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo235/Catshooter45/IMG95201403169512122395045_zps3fa9ad47.jpg (http://s379.photobucket.com/user/Catshooter45/media/IMG95201403169512122395045_zps3fa9ad47.jpg.html)

The two on the right will shoot well past 200 yards. The other three won't hit your house at 300.

Another point of interest is the differences in moulds. Of course Lyman is famous for changing design details over the years. RCBS is about as bad, if not worse, they just haven't been building moulds as long as Lyman. Obviously some changes make sense but some are just sloppiness? Laziness? Of course both companies are filled with non shooters. I'm sure there are some who shoot, but the majority aren't shooters. Or so I think. They don't sound it when I talk to them.

Anyway I'm encouraging J to see if we can get his video which is in an older format copies onto something that we can post to this board. It's a little scary to mail the only copy you have of a video that wasn't easy to make off to some stranger, hope he doesn't screw it up and then it makes it back through the mail. We'll see.


Cat

[WARD O]

Since there are obviously not 5 bullets in the picture, are the two on the right the good ones anyway?

[jhalcott]

GEE! Maybe it's me but I only SEE 4 slugs!

[Catshooter]

Oh man. You'd think an electrician could count!

I edited my post to attach the correct photo, that might help. :lol: I can't find that embarrassed face smiley dang it.


Cat

[Dale53]

Catshooter;
Here it is (I'm always ready to help a buddy out):oops:

Dale53

[44man]

Everyone knows how I feel about a Keith but it is nothing to do with it's accuracy, only how it reacts with the certain gun.
There is nothing about those boolits shown (five by the way) that will make one perform and another not.
I do see a chunk of lube missing from one, lube too hard and chunks leaving a boolit while some stays in?
Were the boolits tested shot from the same gun?
How do you watch or video a boolit past 200 yards? They get lost after so far even with a good spotting scope. It would take a tremendous camera to see them.
Big slow boolits can be seen farther or the shiny base but there are still limits for distance. The boolit will climb so high mid range that it will be lost or is so small way out there it will be lost.
I have watched thousands and thousands of boolits in flight and after so far you look for impact.
Not saying it can't be done or wasn't done and I would love to see a video.
But other things enter into stability.

[Changeling]

This is one of the things that has always held a high interest for me. Long range to me is a variable type thing, meaning (.45 for example) I want a bullet that will shoot accurately to at least 125 yd. I have already found that is dependent on speed one is intending to use(velocity), meplat diameter, length of projectile. These things are all a function of the barrel twist, not just the length of the bullet.

An accurate bullet at 300 gr for 50 yd might fall out of the ballance equation at 100 yd. But if one increases the velocity it will probably/maybe increase it's range of accuracy. This is about as simple an explanation you could get. There are hundreds of posibilities.

I would really be interested in seeing your friends video, it might very well give some insight into "WHY" some of these variables are so detrementable to long range revolver bullets. However you should start with some good castings, the above ones are not to hot.
Really looking forward to seeing the video.

[44man]

I agree Changeling because we don't know if all were the same loads either.
After shooting the WFN to 547 yards so much when it just can't, I have questions too.
It is only cylinder to bore alignment that buggers a Keith or too soft so it slumps.
I was shooting 400 yards all the time and once in a while to 550 yards with the 429421 back in 1956-57 with a flat top Ruger and open sights. I hit stuff. 22 gr of 2400.
Yeah guys, I loved Elmer and still do. I still love the looks of a Keith but there really is no reason for the shoulder. It was made for a paper cutter and the meplat was for game.
Here I was, a young punk with the .44 on my hip and never thought the .44 had a range limit.

[Catshooter]

A lot of these questions I can't answer boys. I do know that they've shot lots of loads through lots of different guns. Forty fours, forty fives, fifties.

Twenty two grains! That's a great load 44man. I chronoed that load out of my three inch 629 at just about 1350 fps years ago. :)

I agree too about there really being no need for the shoulder. I know Keith loved it but it really is good for paper and maybe bones? The meplat seems to do the real work. It is a great looking boolit though, ain't it?

Thanks Dale, yer a peach! :)




Cat

[44man]

Yeah, the Keith will never go away and that is fine.
But you do see what we say, too many other things can ruin stability to blame a boolit.

[Catshooter]

Oh sure. But when you run twenty or so different bullets through the same gun a bunch of which are roughly the same weight, and some shoot and some don't, then the variable is the bullet.

I have no idea of what makes a bullet shoot or not. I started with some long range shooting years ago but then didn't keep it up.

Interesting stuff.


Cat

[taco650]

Cat,

Did your friend find any correlation between long range accuracy and minor weight differences or alloy type?

[Catshooter]

Nope, neither one. As long as it didn't lead, of course.


Cat

[35 Whelen]

There is nothing about those boolits shown (five by the way) that will make one perform and another not.


Oh? I beg to differ. I took the liberty of saving the above photo and noting why these bullets won't shoot accurately.

100699

35W

[Catshooter]

Well, this thread certainly didn't go well.

The pics were sent to me on my phone. I failed to really look closely at them and as 35Whelan points out, them boolits ain't gonna shoot and it ain't no mystery.

I got a PM from J and in it he said that the other chap in this sent me the wrong photos. :(

So never mind. This is so full of screw ups that I'll just lock it. Maybe if I ever get some video I'll try again.


Cat