Single Shot Bench Shooting Technique

[catmandu]

Most bench shooting I've done so far is with bolt or semi auto. I want to do more load workup and accuracy on my single shots. But to load, it has to be picked up off the bags and handled and that affects allowing the rifle to settle in on the rest/bags and shooting good groups. SO how do you do it? Shooting a single shot would be like shooting a string of first shots with a bolt action.
If this has been asked or covered before point me to the reference and I will read it.

Thanks,

Paul in WNY

[357Mag]

Catman -

Howdy !

If I understand your concern(s) correctly, might I suggest.....

- If your rifle has a fwd sling swivel stud, you can use a longer " stud/screw "; and attach a piece of flat stock ( metal, plastic, wood ) in-order to make the normally rounded fore ends of single shots be more stable on a front bag.

- You should be able to cycle the action to load and/or extract fired cases, and th erifle stay steady & stable on the front and rear bags. Or, whenusing a front sandbag or something similar.


Just a thought.


With regards,
357Mag

[montana_charlie]

But to load, it has to be picked up off the bags and handled
What are you doing (between shots) that requires you to pick up the rifle?

CM

[M-Tecs]

Probably a break action Like a Contender or Encore. Make sure the bag is in the same spot every time. Try to be as consistent as possible in positioning the gun.

[catmandu]

Correct, I was asking about a break action, (Encore and NEF) I have heard mention to get a bag as near the hinge pin as possible also. I just wanted to find out what others have done to be successful.

Paul

[YunGun]

I've been eyeballing a nice H&R break-barrel recently, & had been giving some thought to this very subject...
Can't speak from experience as I don't yet own one, but it looks like placing the front bag right behind the hinge pin would be the way to go. If you can move forward enough that the barrel doesn't hit the bench when it swings open, I'd think you could get a pretty solid rest & wouldn't have to pick up/reposition the rifle between loadings. I'd be interested to hear from someone who actually owns/shoots one though....

[montana_charlie]

Well, it is a common thing to shoot singleshot rifles off of cross stix. With them, there is no 'settling in' to be done.
So, a set of 'bench stix' or a simulation of them could be used.

But, to something simpler ...
When 'developing' my reloads for modern (smokeless) rifles, I always point the muzzle upward to settle the powder to the rear before shooting each shot for group. This simulates carrying the rifle in the field, and adds another smidgeon of consistency to the overall scene.

But, I lay the forearm gently into the hollow in the sandbag, so that the shot is launched from the same 'bed' as the one before it.

Can you not lift, and replace, your rifle that carefully?

CM

[Doc Highwall]

What I do with my Encore is hold it by the forend just like I was just shooting off hand, and rest the back of my hand on the bag to steady everything and it works great with point of impact the same as off hand. This is no different then resting the back of my hand on a fallen tree that I might be using for cover when hunting.

[NSB]

Paul, the single biggest thing I've learned about shooting single shots vs. bolt guns is this: The single shots have some "flex" in them due to not having a solid, one piece stock. I've found that one of the biggest influences I have on grouping is how much pressure I put on the gun between the front bag and the rear bag. I've found that the higher up I sit the better I group. I try to not put any pressure anywhere between the rear bag and front bag. Don't know if I'm explaining this very well? I can easily influence my groups by putting any "downward" pressure on the gun. My best groups are shot when I'm sitting up just about straight and just let the gun sit on the bags. Taking it off the bags to reload doesn't seem to be much of a problem as long as I get it back in the same spot each time. My lever guns do the same thing more or less.

[35 shooter]

#1 NSB no downward pressure. ALso i have found a couple of spots to rest my Encore for best results. One is just in front of the receiver and the other is at the fourth rib back from the forend(i have the synthetic flex stock with the rubber ribs on the side). Also when repositioning on the bags after reloading, i adjust only the rear bag with my off hand to get the cross hairs back just under the x ring and then just a light squeeze on the rear bag puts the cross hairs on the x. I even shoot my 35 whelen this way with just my shooting hand on the rifle and let it free recoil. Nothing adjusts the rifle on target but my off hand on the base on the rear bag. Of course i stiffen my shoulder for the recoil and there comes a point for two hands on the rifle on heavy kickers,but even then i adjust the rifle with one hand on the rear bag first then go to the two hand hold while trying not to move anything.
Get everything set same same each shot and that break open action will show accuracy even though it does have to be reset so to speak for each shot. My Encore shoots as well as any rifle i've ever had EXCEPT on a hot barrel.......then you can forget it. Got to let it cool a bit. I know that's true of any rifle but i believe the break opens are a little more sensitive to it.

[EDG]

>>>"What I do with my Encore is hold it by the forend just like I was just shooting off hand"<<<

I shoot all rifles (except a real benchrest rifle) like Doc Highwall.

The advantage was mentioned in another post above. You do not want to put a lot of downward force on the rifle with your cheek/face. If you put 15- or 20 lbs of hard head on the butt stock you will never get it the same if the bags are supporting both ends of the rifle.
With your forward hand between the forend and front bag you will be able to feel when you are resting your head too heavily on the rifle. Your forward hand can tell a few OZ of difference so you can let up with your cheek. Trying to steer a more flexible rifle with your face just does not work.
An added bonus is the forward hand can grip the forend and slow down the recoil and jump a little.

Try it a few rounds and see what you think. It costs nothing but a few rounds to shoot a few groups.

[.22-10-45]

You could rig up a stand-up rest like the Brits use for testing their dbl. rifle heavy kickers.

[Clay M]

As with most rifles the consistency of where you place the forearm on the rest from shot to shot will effect your groups.Sometime it takes experimenting with what position works best.

[catmandu]

Thank you gentlemen for all the answeres. There are some good tips mentioned and now I have a much better idea of some of the particulars I need to be aware of. I knew the group would have this information and would share what hard knocks has taught. I also know its like being married, you have to learn what works for you and your mate, each have their own quirks.

Thanks for sharing and I'll be reviewing and thinking about what was shared.

Paul in WNY

[nanuk]

so... how does one keep a bolt action rifle in the bags during recoil??

seems to me, EVERY gun needs to be reseated for the follow up shot, so realistically, ALL rifles are shot "First Shot" groups.

[catmandu]

[QUOTE=montana_charlie;2706949]Well, it is a common thing to shoot singleshot rifles off of cross stix. With them, there is no 'settling in' to be done.
So, a set of 'bench stix' or a simulation of them could be used.

100741
100742

[catmandu]

so... how does one keep a bolt action rifle in the bags during recoil??

seems to me, EVERY gun needs to be reseated for the follow up shot, so realistically, ALL rifles are shot "First Shot" groups.

By my thinking - a bolt/semi can stay in place on the bags and find a "happy place" and be moved as needed to work the bolt or change mags. A break action has to be opened to load which requires more movement. If I am wrong about this please enlighten me. I asked this to get some talk going about what works for others. I have already learned a few things to ponder that I haden't thought about. So by all means lets keep talking.

Paul in WNY

[bigted]

nope your rite with the "string of first shots" thing. to one degree or another it is what happens with all but the most heavy rifles weighing in at more then 15 pounds. these heavy's can stay pretty well in 1 spot but even they move about a bit.

the break open rifles will benefit from your hand between the rifle and the rest with every shot. what with having to disturb the complete rifle with every shot ... there is really no way to resettle the rifle into the rests the exact same with every shot ... but with your hand ... you can ... as has been mentioned above ... settle the rifle back into the same grip and then place your hand in the same comfort spot as the position attained before.

the only rifle I know of that can be pretty stationary with a shooting position is a 25 pound rolling block set in a barrel clamp. these require no movement of the rifle and the rolling block action requires no movement to open and close and swab or clean and go rite back to your shooting. everything else ... including your bolt guns ... will be molested with the action of opening and closing the action.

your best advice has already been given above by these gentlemen.

welcome to the forum and enjoy that shootin iron.

[ErnieBishop]

The best/most accurate rest I have seen for the TC platform is the Bower style rest. It requires a different forend and a modification to the bottom of the buttstock or pistol grip (Depending on handgun or rifle set-up).
Not everyone will be interested in this kind of a set-up, but it is the best I have ever used for this purpose. I am in to high tech rests, no doubt, but this is an old school type set-up. While at the same time sort of out-of-the-box

[Doc Highwall]

Ernie, do you have a link to the Bower style rest or a picture of one?

[ErnieBishop]

http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/5326Ernie_shooting_contenders.jpg
http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/5326MOA_LR_Set-up.jpg
http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/5326MOA_w50moa_mount.jpg
http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/5326Marc_BRS_222_Rm_Mg_Imp.jpg
If this interests you I will be glad to give you Marc Sheehan's contact info. Marc makes the Bower Rest

[catmandu]

Bellm has some info and pics. I haven't read it yet, but I will.

http://www.bellmtcs.com/store/index.php?cid=583

Thanks,

Paul in WNY

[ErnieBishop]

Good info.
I met Mike at one of Bower's clinics back in the day

[Doc Highwall]

I have seen pictures of that style rest before, but I did not know that it had a name associated with it.

I like the idea of moving the front rest up or down in the slots to change elevation.

[M-Tecs]

Sometimes you see them with a wedge for the back also (think large door stop). The couple I have seen didn't have slots for the front just the angle and friction.

[ErnieBishop]

Marc Sheehan modified and improved the system

[M-Tecs]

Marc Sheehan modified and improved the system

Does Marc have a web site?

[ErnieBishop]

Here is his email address: Marc Sheehan sheehan93@hotmail.com

[M-Tecs]

Thanks!!!!!!

[ErnieBishop]

Marc is really a great guy

[kbstenberg]

Thank you to all who have posted to this thread! I did not realize that additional pressure on a firearm during aiming could cause so much difference in where a bullet impacts the target.
Could one of you gentlemen volunteer to PM with me for more of my education.

[ErnieBishop]

It would take a lot of time to write it out, but grip tension can be huge.
Some guns need (to be accurate) a firmer grip.
Depending on the type of weapon I try a lighter hold at first (taking myself out of the shot, and let the gun do the work).
What it comes down to is consistency, consistency, consistency.:Bright idea: (In grip, trigger pull, placement of the finger on the trigger, placement of the gun on the rest, Natural point of aim, breathing, etc..)
Also, a good number of folks have flinching and or trigger jerking issues which they are not aware of, which only adds to the problem.

[country gent]

I dont shoot the hinged single shots. Randolph S, Wright has a very good section on bench shooting the single shots (Sharps and such) discusses flex and other issues in Loading and shooting Paper Patched Bullets A beginners Guide. I have getting up higher off the bench so I have a more upright position and paying attention to the pressures exerted on the rifle helps alot. Flex and barrel harmonics can be tricky to deal with. Experimant with diffrent techniques and see what works for you.

[Ed in North Texas]

I agree with Doc Highwall, for bench shooting I rest the rifle (any rifle) forearm on my left hand and the back of the left hand on the bag. I'm planning on setting up a rest to put on the bench so I can shoot heavy recoiling rifles while standing, as the Brits do. Even the .50-70 Rollers can get to be tiresome sitting at the bench (yeah, I'm getting to be a wimp. In my defense I'm closing in on 70, don't remember the problem when I was 50s or younger).