Cast in 44m SBH

[Junior1942]

I'm having trouble getting decent accuracy with a 245gr SWC @ ~1000 fps using surplus WC820 in my Ruger 7 1/2" SBH. At 1200+ fps accuracy is fine, i.e., 2 1/2" to 3" 5 shot groups @ 25 yards. I get a squib load occasionally ~1000 fps, so I'm thinking I'll try using mag primers. Poor ignition looks like it's causing my low-speed accuracy problems. I'll get a 4" 4 shot, then shot #5 and #6 will be 6".

Any of you guys been through this? Reckon mag primers will cure the low-speed blues? Reckon I need to buy some Unique?

[Scrounger]

Junior, take this with a grain of salt, 'cause I'm not a WC 820 fan. I don't use the stuff because 3 trys with it all failed, two pistols and 1 rifle. I always ended up with unburned powder getting into places it shouldn't and locking up the action. That being said, if you choose to use it, you have to load it hot enough to get it to burn consistently. Switching to magnum primers may help you there. If not, go up a grain at a time in powder charge until you get consistency. If you want a 1000 FPS load, you're going to have to use a faster powder, like Unique or WW231 or ?. There is some AA#2 and AA#5 on the surplus market that will be far superior to WC820 in lighter loads. AA#2 is close to WW231 in burning speed and AA#5 is close to Unique. IN MY OPINION!

[mike in co]

JR...ME THINKS HE MAYBE CORRECT.
my experience is only with substantial loads.
265 at 1340 fps and the closes to yours is a 280 at 1050 fps,
i use cci 300 primers, just what accurate lists for aa9

what i do find unusual is your poor accuracy,,,,
i shoot well under an inch at 25 yds with these loads.

hate to say this(considering who you are) but did you slug the cylinder ?
i do have to size to about .4316 to fit my cylinder.

[RugerFan]

Try 4227 with CCI 350 primers and a really firm crimp. Worked for me with the same pistol and similar bullet. I was using 18+ grains for full house loads, but I'm sure you could back it down and probably maintain accuracy. IMR 4227 has always worked very well for me with cast.

[Junior1942]

I just made the 32 mile round trip to town and came back with some CCI 350 primers. Maybe this afternoon late or tomorrow morning I'll do some loading and shooting. Mike, the cylinders run ~.432" so that ain't the problem. I need either a faster powder like you guys said or better ignition. My wrist won't take a steady diet of 1200+ fps loads.

I'll post the results here.

[Shuz]

Jr, I get excellent accuracy in several of my .44 mag revolvers with WC820 and 429421 (as well as other boolits.) 17.0g of my lot (BAJ47323),CCI350 mag primer and a .431 dia., Bhn 11, 429421 square groove seated to 1.700 gives a velocity of 1131fps SD 11 and a 25 yd 5 shot group of .75". I think you're on the right track with magnum primers and this powder. This is a great "value" powder. A person just has to be careful because of the tremendous lot to lot variations in burning rates.--Shuz

[Bass Ackward]

I'm having trouble getting decent accuracy with a 245gr SWC @ ~1000 fps using surplus WC820 in my Ruger 7 1/2" SBH. At 1200+ fps accuracy is fine, i.e., 2 1/2" to 3" 5 shot groups @ 25 yards. I get a squib load occasionally ~1000 fps, so I'm thinking I'll try using mag primers. Poor ignition looks like it's causing my low-speed accuracy problems. I'll get a 4" 4 shot, then shot #5 and #6 will be 6".

Any of you guys been through this? Reckon mag primers will cure the low-speed blues? Reckon I need to buy some Unique?

Junior,

I have never had good luck with magnum pistol primers.

For low velocity loads, I usually did better by softening bullets and increasing diameter. That gave me a combination of better case alignment in the cylinder, stronger case grip, and then a delay in the forcing cone as it sized down. All benifited me more than a magnum pistol primer in a pistol.

[Junior1942]

Guys, looks like the mag primers did the trick. I had time to load and shoot one 6 shot group at 25 yards.

Powder = WC820 (n) 1.09 cc ~15.7 grs
Primer = CCI 350
Bullet = 245 gr bevel base SWC (Wayne Doudna bullet)

Velocity estimate = 1150 fps (based on recoil)

6 = 2 3/8"
5 = 1 7/8"

That's by far the best low-velocity group shot so far. I'll run some more over the Chrony tomorrow.

[Junior1942]

Here's the results of 5, 6 shot groups at 25 yards. Powder = 1.09cc WC820 (n); primer = CCI 350 mag; bullet = 245 gr SWC Doudna. Pistol = Ruger SBH 7 1/2" w/factory sights.

6 shot group average = 2.925"
5 shot group average = 2.275"

That's great with these 62 year old eyes.

I ran the last group (6 = 2"; 5 = 1 1/2") over the Chrony:

AV = 1197; ES = 56; SD = 20.

Bullets were seated to the top of the crimping groove, then crimped in a Lee Factory Crimp Die set for - 1/2 turn.

The largest flyer using mag primers opened a 6 shot group to 4 1/4". Using regular primers I would have had 4 or 5, 6" to 8" flyers in 5 groups. Obviously, lower velocity 44 mag pistol loads with 245 gr cast and WC820 need mag primers.

Notice that mag primers gave ~100 fps more velocity with the same bullet and 1.09cc/15.7 gr powder charge, i.e., 1095 fps vs 1197 fps.

[Catshooter]

Thats good info JR, thanks.

I noticed that in yesterdays post you estimated the fps by recoil at 1150. Today the chrony shows your loads at 1197. You missed by a whole 47 fps! Oh, the humanity!

Your wrists may be 62 years old, but there'll pretty accurate!.


Cat

[lar45]

I've used WC820 in my 44 Bisley with velocities down to 800fps with very good accuracy and no ignition problems. If I can find my notes, I'll post the powder charge.
My brain is getting fuzzy so I don't remember if I had mag primers or not, but I probably did as I was starting to get some squibs in the 454 with WC820 in the winter until I switched to small rifle mag primers.

[9.3X62AL]

Junior--

Interesting info on the mag primers tightening up group sizes with the WC-820 in 44 Magnum. Like you, I prefer to limit the 240/250 grainers to 1200 FPS or less for much of my 44 Magnum shooting. I've used Unique, Herco, and WW-231 for most of that work--largely because I already have them around for other uses. Herco has been here for field loads in my shotguns, and it has done very well in both 41 and 44 Magnum for loads running 950-1000 FPS. These are accurate, enjoyable, all-day loads in these calibers, and powder costs are about half that of the slower powder "full-case"/full power loads. Velocity, muzzle blast, and recoil.......more isn't always better.

[Junior1942]

>Velocity, muzzle blast, and recoil.......more isn't always better.

A big 10-4 on that, Deputy Al. I think I have carpal tunnel syndrome in my right, shooting wrist, and after 10 or so ~1250 fps rounds I'm through shooting for the day. These 1192 fps rounds using WC820 might be too much for me. If so, I'll break down and buy a can of Unique.

But I've got about 16 lbs of WC820 (n), and a po' boy like me needs to use what he has. Plus, a 245 gr .429" cast at 1192 fps is plenty good for 50 yard deer and hogs. Maybe when beer can season opens in spring I'll buy some Unique. . . .

[Willbird]

A couple off the coller ideas, one being to try 44 special brass, the other being to try a wad made from the styro meat trays under the bullet, both will make a smaller case out of the 44 magnum and I would think either or both would help. It would be an interesting experiment anyway.

H110/296 seems to work fine in 45 colt without mag primers, at fairly low pressures.

Bill

[9.3X62AL]

Willbird--

I got tired of cleaning out the crud that accumulates between the Magnum chamber shoulder and end of Special brass when Specials get fired in Magnum revolvers. I did that A LOT back in the early days of my career when we carried only 38 +P's in our Model 19's and 66's.

Back edge of the sword.......has anyone else read the article on the 44 Special in the most recent "Handloader"? Its text relates loading data providing 1200 FPS with 240/250 grain boolits in Model 24-3 revolvers. I don't think I'll be trying that in my M-624, and I'm very surprised to see such text in this lawyer-dominated world we live in. Almost refreshing, that.

[MT Gianni]

Junior, Buy a lb of green dot before you buy Unique and search here for green dot and 44 loads or 44 - 1000fps first. I think you will be better served. Gianni.

[Shuz]

Junior,
MT is right on about Green Dot. I've been using it for years in my .44 mags and basically you can get excellent accuracy with ABOUT 10 per cent less powder than Unique. My favorite load is 8.6g behind a 429421HP. An Alliant rep(Hercules then) once told me that Green Dot in the .44 mag is one of the best kept secrets there is. However, he couldn't tell me why!--Shuz

[NVcurmudgeon]

Junior, another Green Dot fan here. For 950 fps (+/- depending on pistol barrel length) with 240-250 cast use 7.0 gr. Same load is 1200 fps in 24" rifle.