Federal Agents Entrapping Hunters In NC and GA? Any truth to this?

[DougGuy]

Attention: Sportsmen in WNC and North Georgia

http://www.thetribunepapers.com/2014/01/20/attention-sportsmen-in-wnc-and-north-georgia/

By Linda Crisp-In recent news, it has been reported that six U.S. Forest Service (USFS) employees from Western North Carolina were awarded “Law Enforcement and Investigations Awards” by the USFS for their roles in “Operation Something Bruin”, a four-year, multi-agency investigation targeting “bear poachers” in WNC and surrounding states, resulting in arrests in February 2013.

Also, in October, the National Wildlife Federation bestowed “prestigious conservation honors” on Sgt. Chad Arnold, an officer from Charlotte with the Special Investigations Unit of the N.C. Wildlife Commission. Arnold was named “Wildlife Enforcement Officer of the Year”, and the Commission was named the “Natural Resources Agency of the Year”, according to a press release from the N.C. Wildlife Commission.

After state and federal wildlife officials arrested these “so-called” poachers in February, 2013, the state dismissed all charges on some of them in April, 2013. Some hunters were arrested again in June, 2013 by United States Forest Service officials.

The Wildlife Federation, United States Forest Service, state and federal officials have been too hasty in handing out awards and congratulating themselves.

In 2009, Arnold (undercover alias “Chad Ryan”), and Davey Webb (alias Davey Williams), a wildlife agent from Georgia, visited a gun shop in Bryson City, N.C. According to the shop owner, they stated that they wanted to get involved in bear hunting and asked for recommendations of hunting guides in the area. However, according to subsequent reports, they were supposed to be infiltrating “known poaching circles”. The gun shop owner told them about some hunters he knew in Graham County, N.C. These agents hunted with men in Graham, Swain, Jackson, and Haywood from 2009-2012.

In late 2010 through 2011, under time constraints, and possibly due to not finding any illegal activity, Arnold and Webb resorted to various schemes to try to entice the hunters to break laws.

During one hunter’s trial in Haywood County, agents admitted to buying illegal bait for bears in Tennessee, and placing it in a hunter’s yard in Graham County. Hunters witnessed the officers killing at least four of the ten bears that were taken. These agents, against the advice of hunters, removed the bears’ gallbladders and called hunters from surrounding counties to try to get them to participate in the illegal selling of bear parts. The hunters refused to take part in this illegal activity. These are only two of the many tactics used in attempts to entrap hunters of Western North Carolina.

According to one attorney, Arnold admitted in court to violating 39 wildlife laws.

Additionally, state and federal agents employed “Gestapo-like” techniques in search and seizure of so-called “evidence”, including improper service of search-warrants.

Men in bullet-proof vests, with M-16 rifles came into homes where women were alone.

In one house, more than 20 agents with guns drawn, terrorized screaming toddlers and left them unsupervised while the parents were roughed up, searched, handcuffed, and taken outside the home. To this day, these children display post-traumatic stress symptoms.

They left homes in disarray and removed items unrelated to bear hunting: a laptop computer, hunting picture of deceased family member, legally killed mounted deer and boar heads, duck and turkey calls belonging to a four-year-old boy, a boat and boat titles, a front-end loader, personal vehicles, and many other items, which have not been returned.

To date, hunters who have had jury trials have not been convicted. In one case in Graham County, agents could not produce video “evidence”. Enticements were made by prosecutors including an offer to drop some charges if the hunter involved would plead guilty. The hunter refused and requested a jury trial. In this case, all charges were dropped due to lack of evidence.

Various new releases by state and federal agencies, as well as the media, have already labeled all the hunters as “poachers”; however, most of these men have not had their “day in court”. Whatever happened to due process of law and “innocent until proven guilty”?

To add insult to injury, some hunters who have not been convicted of anything have been assigned federal probation officers who visit monthly.

“Something IS Brewing” in WNC; that “SOMETHING” would be tempers. The hunters involved are tired of being falsely accused, their rights ignored, and their reputations ruined.

The citizens of WNC and Northern Georgia are now organizing to get some answers from these agencies on why their constitutional rights have been ignored and proper due process of law not given.

A public hearing is currently being planned for mid-January 2014. Organizers are asking for Governor Pat McCrory, Congressman Mark Meadows and all elected officials to initiate investigations of all officers and agencies involved in “Operation Something Bruin”. If you have information to share, or would like to participate, please send an e-mail to SomethingBrewing2013@yahoo.com , or letter to P.O. Box 948, Bryson City, N.C., 28713.

Sincerely,

Linda Crisp,

Graham County, NC

[Blammer]

That's not too far from me and I can say I have not heard any of this in the news, local or other.

[Rick459]

Whatever assets you own will soon be property of the King. Goggle King Henry. They confiscate them under the guise of suspicion, sell them off, then go take them back again.
Been going on since 1400 and before and will go on from here on after.

The Hell You Say!!!

[DougGuy]

That's not too far from me and I can say I have not heard any of this in the news, local or other.

There's nothing on snopes about it, so if it was a ruse, snopes usually debunks things like this but I can't find anything that says it never happened.

[quilbilly]

Bear poaching for the gall bladders has been a serious problem here in the NW for years. They are sold to China for huge sums. Federal, state, and county enforcement agencies have all been involved at one time or another. At least here in the NW, only as long as game wardens are involved, those "gestapo like" tactics including confiscation without trial are routine. Only the DEA has similar power so far but at some point, if you are suspected conservative gun owner, you will eventually be fair game to our fascist ruling class.

[beagle]

I'm not surprised stuff like that happened there. I went to Jr. High School there for a couple of years back in the 50s and I'd hear tales told seriously of Federal agents (BATF) going missing and never being heard from or found. I suppose it was the same with DEA in later years. Those guys are hard to infiltrate and darned if I'd want that job. They really stick together back in the hills there and there are still places back there that few people have ever seen or set foot. Look how long Eric Rudolph eluded the US government before he gave himself up. I'm not surprised that they'd resort to shenanigans to make an arrest quota or justify their existence. Not a job that I'd take for a bear or so./beagle

[Duckiller]

LA Co Sheriff and LAPD regularly conduct sweeps busting gang bangers and sends them to the Govenor. Jerry turns around ands says they are non-violent and sends them home.

[runfiverun]

turn on the outdoor channel and watch one of the many warden shows.
I love it when someone drives past their decoy and don't shoot it.
the "officers" are incredulous that someone would just pass it up, everyone that's hunting has to be doing something illegal [or would definitely take the illegal route if given the chance] in their eyes.

[jonp]

That's not too far from me and I can say I have not heard any of this in the news, local or other.

Im surprised as i read about this a little while ago.

[9w1911]

no love for bear poachers they get what they deserve

[contender1]

I, like Blammer, live in the area. I also know many bear hunters. I haven't heard this on the local news. (By that, the local liberal news media being News 13, out of Asheville.)
I will be asking a few bear hunters about this.

[robertbank]

I deleted a couple of posts. Catching poachers ought to be heralded by any hunter on this board. Agree or disagree but leave the gestapo tactic comments to the privacy of your bedrooms. The US is head and shoulders a better place to live in then more than a few countries I can think of. One reason for it is the country is a country ruled by laws. Every couple of years you get to vote for folks and you give them the power to write those laws within the confines of your constitution. Be thankful you can, many on this planet don't. The system may not be perfect but not much man is involved with is.

Take Care

Bob

[Harter66]

I have no kick w/busting people that are breaking the law. I don't even get fired up when people get busted for knowingly (by which I mean doing it on purpose more than once),breaking the law. If a guy kills a swan in the snow hunting snow geese thats a mistake, if he kills 6 out of a flight of 15 on a blue bird day,well you see my point. ( In Nv its 2 w/tags per season in 3 counties) . If officers get in w/some guys that may or may not break the law for the express reason of making a poaching bust and it doesn't happen in 2 let alone 4 yr odds are pretty good they're just they aren't doing anything wrong. I'd call it entrapment if the officer encouraged violations by making violations and expecting his new buddies to also.
I've seen wardens get overzelose checking camps leaving coolers open because ''we found chucker feathers'' and the guys in the camp were just camping,no guns,bows or hunting gear...... 80 miles away a warden started at the other end of the line and lent his pen to sign stamps.
Maybe the good ol' boys were wrong maybe they took advantage somebody elses's illegal bait w/w/o knowing. I'd expect that bear bait is a little like coyote bait ,bad chicken is hard to miss w/in 100yds. The burden is still to prove guilt not inoccense. These men were not convicted and don't have their stuff back. That's wrong even if they are guilty.

[freebullet]

turn on the outdoor channel and watch one of the many warden shows.
I love it when someone drives past their decoy and don't shoot it.
the "officers" are incredulous that someone would just pass it up, everyone that's hunting has to be doing something illegal [or would definitely take the illegal route if given the chance] in their eyes.


I seen one of those shows years ago. They were arresting people that stopped to look at the deer decoy, even if their guns were unloaded and in cases, even if they didn't have guns, and that just ain't right neither is the way they were treating people. Their only crime was stopping on a gravel road and LOOKING at a deer. Before you know it they will be arresting bird watchers for intent to watch, things are getting out of hand. Sometimes I go through state parks and watch deer from a vehicle, its sad to think I could be arrested for it when I was only looking. That dont sound like freedom to me.

[w5pv]

Some years back,y brother and a couple of other hunters went to the lease to hunt durning the archery season,that evening they were at the camp and a warden came in checked their hunting permits,sit around and shot the bull with them.It got a round to him asking about any guns and all of them had hand guns they showed to him but instead of telling them they coulnot have a gun in camp during archery season he left and came back the next day and arrested them for having a gun in camp during the archery season.None had taken the guns on their stands with them but left them locked up in the trucks.To me it was a set up the land owner went to the judge and sheriff but only suceeded in getting the judge to give them a minium fine and court cost.But it still cost them money because some rookie wanted a feather in his hat.

[Hogtamer]

"Two strangers went way up on Rocky Top, looking for a still; them strangers never came back down again, don't guess they ever will..." Best leave them boys that take their bluegrass seriously alone. Seriously.

[leftiye]

I deleted a couple of posts. Catching poachers ought to be heralded by any hunter on this board. Agree or disagree but leave the gestapo tactic comments to the privacy of your bedrooms. The US is head and shoulders a better place to live in then more than a few countries I can think of. One reason for it is the country is a country ruled by laws. Every couple of years you get to vote for folks and you give them the power to write those laws within the confines of your constitution. Be thankful you can, many on this planet don't. The system may not be perfect but not much man is involved with is.

Take Care

Bob

Well, you're totally right. Another reason I like my country is that we have freedom of speech. A reason I have trepidation for my country is that pinko commie libtard people in government are ignoring the rule of law and federal and state and local agencies are violating our rights in a gestapo like manner. I just plain disagree with this.

[jcwit]

I deleted a couple of posts. Catching poachers ought to be heralded by any hunter on this board. Agree or disagree but leave the gestapo tactic comments to the privacy of your bedrooms. The US is head and shoulders a better place to live in then more than a few countries I can think of. One reason for it is the country is a country ruled by laws. Every couple of years you get to vote for folks and you give them the power to write those laws within the confines of your constitution. Be thankful you can, many on this planet don't. The system may not be perfect but not much man is involved with is.

Take Care

Bob

Tell us just whats wrong with bringing up the unjust actions being done by members of law enforcement here in the U.S.A, not in Canada which is where you are at. We have more than enough to concern ourselves with this right here south of your boarder.

[dragon813gt]

I deleted a couple of posts. Catching poachers ought to be heralded by any hunter on this board. Agree or disagree but leave the gestapo tactic comments to the privacy of your bedrooms.
Did you read the article? They did use Gestapo tactics. The agents broke the law themselves to try to get law abiding citizens to break the law. I realize that free speech does not apply on this board. But just because you don't agree does not make it so. Read the article and realize that the agents were scum who broke the law.

[6bg6ga]

Tell us just whats wrong with bringing up the unjust actions being done by members of law enforcement here in the U.S.A, not in Canada which is where you are at. We have more than enough to concern ourselves with this right here south of your boarder.

I guess I cannot question the moderator actions without the possibility of yet another sanction upon myself. I will say that in my opinion and what would be the opinion of others here is that the deleted posts need not be deleted. If the posts were racist, or otherwise objectional I could agree 100% with the deletion and they weren't. Granted we simply are not allowed the freedom to question here. It would seem that another thread has also been deleted and that was the one with the Josie video which questioned simply what would police officers do if told to enforce unjust laws. This must have been viewed as a problem with authority.

Maybe I'm mistaken and the thread is locked but at any rate I'm not finding it and it deserves to be read by all.

[Dan Cash]

I deleted a couple of posts. Catching poachers ought to be heralded by any hunter on this board. Agree or disagree but leave the gestapo tactic comments to the privacy of your bedrooms. The US is head and shoulders a better place to live in then more than a few countries I can think of. One reason for it is the country is a country ruled by laws. Every couple of years you get to vote for folks and you give them the power to write those laws within the confines of your constitution. Be thankful you can, many on this planet don't. The system may not be perfect but not much man is involved with is.

Take Care

Bob

Robert,
You are right regarding us here in the U.S living better than some countries but you are dead wrong to say "leave the gestapo tactic comments in the privacy of your bedrooms." The fact is that many of our alphabet agencies and even local police are militarized and operate outside the bounds of our constitutional law and do so with impunity. Open discussion of these acts informs people where the so called main stream media does not. If we are not vigillant, we are lost. You Canadians need to be vigillant as well. from what I have read, the RCMP has been a bit free wheeling in regard to gun theft, aka confiscation.

[Col4570]

The primitive Chinese are responsible for world wide poaching for body parts,until these disgusting low lifes are brought to book the trade will continue.

[dragon813gt]

^
Now that is a thread drift for the record books :laugh:

[robertbank]

Well, you're totally right. Another reason I like my country is that we have freedom of speech. A reason I have trepidation for my country is that pinko commie libtard people in government are ignoring the rule of law and federal and state and local agencies are violating our rights in a gestapo like manner. I just plain disagree with this.

Uneducated, ignorant actions of those who promote hatred and anarchy among a community are likely more of a concern for many. To suggest any of the government agencies act like the gestapo active from the middle 30's on to the end of WW11 is to lack a fundamental understanding of the actions of that organization during that time period in Europe and in particular Germany.

Who votes the elected individuals into office?

The U.S. is a country governed by laws established by those elected by the people is it not? It is my understanding the US Supreme Court decides whether those elected individuals who passed the laws, have passed laws that offend the rights of the people as set down in the US Constitution. I can't think of a modern democracy that operates any differently. The U.S. is not the first country to develop this system of governance.

My life experiences suggest it is a losing position for an individual to make those decisions on their own. Prisons are full of those who do. I suspect that might include the odd poacher.

Take Care

Bob

[robertbank]

For those of you who think asking police officers to decide whether a law is worth enforcing or not you might want to reflect on what you are asking for and why. Personalty I want officer of the law to enforce all the laws, not just the ones they like or my brother or neighbour likes but all of them. If the law allows for warnings and gives the officers the option so be it but what I would find clearly unacceptable and what some here forget it is the courts who protect you and me from infringements on your constitutional rights not the officers.

The question that begs to be asked is who passes the laws in the first place? The answer is those who are elected by you the people. And who are these people who actually participate in elections? Well in civic matters up here fewer than 50% turn out for municipal elections. For Provincial elections the figure is not much better. Federally, the turn out sometimes is slightly better. In short you and I get exactly the government we deserve and for many don't bother to elect.

Are your turn outs much better? Probably not. Statisticians might well argue that it really doesn't make much difference. Random polls prior to an election almost invariably predict the outcome of most elections - Dewey's defeat being the most notable exception and there have been others.

So why the disconnect? Do most Americans feel their police act like the "Gestapo? I doubt it. Do most Americans want the police to decide which laws they enforce and which ones they don't? Really? I am almost certain they don't.

Someone mentioned the RCMP seizure of guns recently and I assume they are referring to the floods in Calgary. Our Prime Minister, who represents a Calgary riding, actually intervened and ordered the immediate return of the firearms in question. One can argue if they would have returned the firearms had he not intervened. The RCMP claimed they were going to. We will never know will we.

The unfortunate reality in that case was the RCMP were acting under a provision of our Firearms Act and within the law. Personally I did not like their actions but I dislike the Firearms Act more and regularly write my Member of Parliament with the hopes I can persuade him to promote changes in the Act. Should the RCMP acted the way they did. I didn't like what they did but there would have been hell to pay if those guns had been stolen and the officers had known the guns were abandoned and available for theft. What would we say then? Cops failed to protect our property....why aren't they doing their jobs......???? At the time residents had to leave their homes due to the flood and many of the homes were damaged beyond repair and remain abandoned.

I don't think many officers of the law would want to be in the position of selecting which laws to enforce and which ones to ignore. On balance I am not so sure many outside of law enforcement do either.

Take Care

Bob
ps All of this is a major thread drift. Debate the merits of the actions of the officers and agencies to your hearts contents. Referencing the actions of the gestapo or suggesting the police use gestapo like actions only insults men and women in our communities who daily put themselves at risk to ensure the laws our representatives pass is inflammatory and baiting responses as some have on this forum from time to time serves little purpose and some would suggest makes things worse.

[ole 5 hole group]

Sometimes we perceive a problem but when we hear both sides, we realize there never was a problem. Entrapment is when you entice an innocent person to do something that he would never do without that enticement. Example, a person making $18K a year working 51 weeks a year and trying to support a family of three. He's strapped and when his vehicle breaks down along comes mr drug agent and offers him $250 for an ounce of mj. Yup, that's entrapment as the offered price for the oz of mj is way to high and the individual has no record or reputation of being a mj user or dealer.

I seriously doubt any game warden would break the law in an attempt to have someone follow his lead. Now he is authorized with higher up approval of engaging in limited illegal activities with other poachers in an attempt to identify all persons involved in the illegal activity. Sometimes that takes a year or better when outfitters are involved.

As far as arresting archers with firearms during archery season - well, the way another poster presented the alleged situation - well, maybe the warden was within the law but it was really a different way of proceeding. I would think the vast majority of wardens out there would have advised them of their options without issuing a ticket.

I've seen a warden or two hand a hunter a pen to sign his federal duck stamp that was attached to the state hunting license. No big thing - I've even seen a warden checking fishermen and found they were one fish over the limit on a species - the warden advised the people to release one fish - if it swam away looking healthy all would be well, if it couldn't - a ticket would be issued. That was one thankful Iowaweigen fishing in southern Minnesota.

I've also seen a warden witness a hunter shooting a hen pheasant - the hunter walked over to the bird, picked it up, looked it over and threw it down and continued walking the field. Upon returning to their vehicle the warden checked their weapons and bag - all was legal and then he asked the hunter who he witnessed shooting the hen why he shot a hen. The explanation was he thought he saw red, as there were some late hatches with a few young roosters being harvested. The warden advised him that wasn't a problem - making a mistake in identification but if he would have kept the bird a ticket would have been issued regardless of the excuse. A conversation ensued where it got around to why waste meat when a mistake is made - warden advised a fox will have a great meal and there's just too many people in this world who would exploit that loop hole.

I've just been around too many game wardens (in several States) during my lifetime to believe they have more than a couple bad apples in their group - now as far as using good common sense, the times have changed and using good common sense is in short supply everywhere these days. Some call it "hardnosed" while others call it "something differentt" and I mainly agree with the others on how some use their "common sense".

[nagantguy]

[Go back to sleep your rights and property afe not being taken by evil men with guns and power.QUOTE=robertbank;2706750]I deleted a couple of posts. Catching poachers ougght to be heralded by any hunter on this board. Agree or disagree but leave the gestapo tactic comments to the privacy of your bedrooms. The US is head and shoulders a better place to live in then more than a few countries I can think of. One reason for it is the country is a country ruled by laws. Every couple of years you get to vote for folks and you give them the power to write those laws within the confines of your constitution. Be thankful you can, many on this planet don't. The system may not be perfect but not much man is involved with is.

Take Care

Bob[/QUOTE]

[jonp]

Back to the topic. Ive read several stories on this and the wildlife cops seem to have used highly questionable tactics. We still have the rule of law and all need to follow it. From what i have read several lawsuits against the game cops are in the works

[Harter66]

5 hole,
In Nv they call dumping a bird wanton waste, a much higher fine than an honest mistake.

I guess this boils down to both sides having their say. I doubt very much that any of us can honestly say there has never been any infraction , especially if hard black and white of the law is applied. 26 in a 25 maybe ?

Laws are different all over too.....

[leftiye]

Uneducated, ignorant actions of those who promote hatred and anarchy among a community are likely more of a concern for many. To suggest any of the government agencies act like the gestapo active from the middle 30's on to the end of WW11 is to lack a fundamental understanding of the actions of that organization during that time period in Europe and in particular Germany.

Who votes the elected individuals into office?

The U.S. is a country governed by laws established by those elected by the people is it not? It is my understanding the US Supreme Court decides whether those elected individuals who passed the laws, have passed laws that offend the rights of the people as set down in the US Constitution. I can't think of a modern democracy that operates any differently. The U.S. is not the first country to develop this system of governance.

My life experiences suggest it is a losing position for an individual to make those decisions on their own. Prisons are full of those who do. I suspect that might include the odd poacher.

Take Care

Bob

If you feel that I am ignorant I don't care. I wouldn't suggest anything. I said and am saying that if you didn't think the house to house searches in Philadelphia (during the law enforcement feeding frenzy after the marthon bombing) weren't Gestapo like, then it's you who don't understand history. Moderating our posts to fit your own opinions is fine, but only up to a point. I am not an anarchist, only someone who wants to enjoy the freedoms that are all of our birthright without fearing the government, having my house broken into by police (whether or not I'm home), or to be shot because a bunch of mall ninjas with badges are on a rampage. You may trust your government at your peril, mine is daily showing that trust is not merited. And a bunch of pelosis passing legislation is what I call law that will do nothing but destroy our country.

[Ajax]

If you feel that I am ignorant I don't care. I wouldn't suggest anything. I said and am saying that if you didn't think the house to house searches in Philadelphia (during the law enforcement feeding frenzy after the marthon bombing) weren't Gestapo like, then it's you who don't understand history. Moderating our posts to fit your own opinions is fine, but only up to a point. I am not an anarchist, only someone who wants to enjoy the freedoms that are all of our birthright without fearing the government, having my house broken into by police (whether or not I'm home), or to be shot because a bunch of mall ninjas with badges are on a rampage. You may trust your government at your peril, mine is daily showing that trust is not merited. And a bunch of pelosis passing legislation is what I call law that will do nothing but destroy our country.

Could not have said it better myself.

Andy

[jcwit]

I have mulled it over all night and here you are with a post that says it all better than I could anyway.

Thanks leftiye

[6bg6ga]

Robert,

This is the last thing I will say on the subject. We have both the right and obligation to question both laws and the way they are enforced We do not live under a King or Queen and as a result we probably do not share what I perceive to be a blind tolerance. Yes, I will state the obvious so that you do not have to. I am ignorant and do not poses a college education and for the most part have difficulty spelling. I will say that in my opinion you have certainly overstepped your authority in blatantly removing posts that were causing no problems. In my primitive mine the decision to remove a post shouldn't be centered around your beliefs.

[GunnyJohn]

Some years back,y brother and a couple of other hunters went to the lease to hunt durning the archery season,that evening they were at the camp and a warden came in checked their hunting permits,sit around and shot the bull with them.It got a round to him asking about any guns and all of them had hand guns they showed to him but instead of telling them they coulnot have a gun in camp during archery season he left and came back the next day and arrested them for having a gun in camp during the archery season.None had taken the guns on their stands with them but left them locked up in the trucks.To me it was a set up the land owner went to the judge and sheriff but only suceeded in getting the judge to give them a minium fine and court cost.But it still cost them money because some rookie wanted a feather in his hat.

Here in Oregon we used to have a law like that. It was over turned, as it is unconstitutional. Read 2nd ammendment. The Oregon dept of fish and wildlife had imposed it, and had no authority to do so. It's not a crime to carry a firearm during archery season, it's only a crime to use it to take game. Around here we have large predators, and a hand gun is good insurance that you and your legally taken game will make it home safely. Mabey you should challenge it. Just sayin

[jonp]

They just changed that law in VT. I think the legislature got wind of a coming lawsuit and scratched it

[Firebricker]

Looks like censorship is here. FB

[Ajax]

Contrary to what some here think, this is a private forum. Its content is up to the site owner or whomever he designates to keep that content in his guidelines. I am no fan of censorship by any means but this is not my forum. That being said anyone can leave here anytime they feel the need to. I for one still think the free flowing ideas here are worth it. My question is would this have been as heavily modded if it was in the PIT.

Andy

[robertbank]

Andy the OP posted an article and asked if there was any truth in it. The first response to the OP's question is a video suggesting officers of the law should chose what laws they enforce. The post made no attempt to answer the question nor make any comment regarding the article. If that is baiting I don't know what is. From that we get a follow up post about private property seizures by King Henry back in 1400??? More of the same. We have had quite enough baiting and anti police type threads that turn into a feeding frenzy. Folks end up being banned from sections of the forum and/or banned outright from the forum as they get wrapped up around some perceived abuse be it real or imagined.

To the OP DougGuy I contacted the newspaper in question and asked about the article. To answer your question, it would appear the article is correct. Here is the newspapers reply to my inquiry. Now folks stick to the topic at hand, leave your stories about something you heard from a friends uncle that some police officer abused his authority or the US is about to implode simply because two or three officers did something wrong. I can assure you your Republic is not that fragile and it's citizens are made of sterner stuff. The legal system works, slowly to be sure but it does work and it does protect us all from abuse. The system does not prevent abuse....no system does.

Dear Mr.xxxxxxxxx:

Your e-mail concerning Linda Crisp's article relating to "Operation Something Bruin" has been referred to me, as I have been following and writing about this story for several months.

Mrs. Crisp's article did indeed appear in our publication, as a guest column. I have interviewed her -- along with many other people -- extensively and am in a position to verify that the events and allegations contained in her article are essentially accurate to the best of her knowledge and personal recollection. She is not, however, a professional journalist.

But I am. Below are links to three articles I have written so far on this subject. If you read them closely and in this order, they should give you an accurate and verifiable overview of this matter:


http://www.thetribunepapers.com/2014/01/31/complaints-of-false-arrest-entrapment-gestapo-tactics-aired-by-citizens/


http://www.thetribunepapers.com/2014/02/15/nine-year-old-i-was-scared/


http://www.thetribunepapers.com/2014/03/10/legal-fallout-begins-in-bruingate/

Other articles will be forthcoming as additional developments occur.
Thank you for your interest.
Sincerely,
Roger McCredie
Investigative Journalist
The Asheville Tribune
(828) 301-5452
rebscape@att.net

Take Care

Bob

[leftiye]

The part I liked in the girl's video was the assertion that police shouldn't do anything that would not be right if they were to do it as private citizens. I guess it's the old "right is right" (and conversely it's wrong even if a cop does it).

I'm a bit up in the air (undecided) about the cops choosing which laws they enforce. However, there SHOULD come a point where a law is so abusive and so offensive that they won't support it. In the present instance they are just plainly violating the law with the intent of destroying someone's life, and stealing their property, or freedom. This is becoming boringly prevalent.

Interestingly they DO NOW choose which laws they'll enforce (and even obey) though mostly to our detriment. A local police force here in Salt Lake area used to have "selective enforcement" painted on their cars as if that was something good.

[robertbank]

leftiye if you want to start a thread based upon the video go down to the Pit and fill your boots. Get a consensus as to whether or not police officers should decide what laws to enforce or not and even if they have that sworn option. Argue the merits of such action, the pros and cons etc. Leave the Gestapo posts as they relate to American police officers to another forum. The use of the term insults all those who suffered under their time on this planet and the men and women today who regularly put it all out there to keep us from self destructing.

But your last post and the video has nothing to do with the article posted by DougGuy. I think DougGuy has an answer to his question. It would appear the article is correct. This isn't a case of a bad law it would appear the officers in question decided to write their own law. A much different question than the video addresses.

I will wait for DougGuy to respond. He can let me know if he want the tread to remain open or not.

Take Care

Bob